Bus port (Archie connector) mouse for sale.

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Zarchos
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Bus port (Archie connector) mouse for sale.

Post by Zarchos » Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:37 pm

Hi people.

As posted in the 'Today I received ...' thread, I managed to buy at a very interesting price 80 brand new, old stock, 3-button bus port mice (so they have the peculiar Archimedes mouse connector we all know).
Cheap enough to, even if rewiring them and/or more profundly modifying the internals fail to have them working for the Archies, eventually using the cord with the connector (*) to repair an Archie mouse, or modify a USB mouse to connect it to an Archie, makes purchasing them a good deal.
See viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8659&hilit=mouse

Anybody interested please pm me : 5 euros + shipping cost to your country from France.
As I've just posted a couple of parcels to the UK, shipping to the U.K in a parcel is 6,85 € (not signed for).

So for people in the UK the price is 11,85 €, and I can accept Paypal.

Only registered *. members, please, not newcomers, I don't want to see them on Ebay on sale for GBP 19.99 + shipping in a few weeks.

1st come, 1st served, for 57 of them, 1 mouse per *. registered (not today) member.

If sbdy here knows because he/she already read somewhere how such bus port mice can be rewired to work with the Archies, please tell me, as I have no idea if it's possible or not.
There are no ICs as found in the Archie mice in these bus port mice, so I doubt it's possible, but who knows, maybe the IC in the Archie mouse is there to deal with the singals coming from the led emitting light through the wheel, and there's no need of that in these bus port mouse because the mouse movements are detected by a more 'basic' electro mechanical system.

Additional infos :
- these bus port mice have a heavy ball, but unfortunately it's too big to fit in an Archie mouse as a replacement.
- (*) IMPORTANT : there are 8 wires in the cord, when an Archie mouse has 10 (I don't know if there could be duplicated ground connections, I'll have to check that).
Photo-0051.jpg
No cigarettes on this one ...
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1024MAK
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Re: Bus port (Archie connector) mouse for sale.

Post by 1024MAK » Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:32 pm

If I have the correct orientation of the mini DIN plug, then the pin-out appears to be as shown below:

Code: Select all

Mouse Cable
9 pin mini DIN
DIN  Wire     Internal  Function
Pin  Colour   Plug
 1.  N/C
 2.  Brown    5         X movement
 3.  Red      6         X movement
 4.  Orange   7         Y movement
 5.  Yellow   8         Y movement
 6.  Green    3         Right button
 7.  Blue     2         Middle button
 8.  Grey     1         Left button
 9.  White    4         Common
There are no electronic parts inside because mechanical switch encoders (discs with round PCBs with tracks acting as contacts and three finger leaf spring contacts) are used.

Mark

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retroclinic
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Re: Bus port (Archie connector) mouse for sale.

Post by retroclinic » Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:32 am

Hi.

I've got a batch of these, and they can be rewired to work on Arc's, but it's pain in the proverbial backside. You need to use a new cable, the original one doesn't have the right internal wiring. You can get the cables still from RS here.

Once you have the new cable, you need to add resistors to the internals to allow the proper switching, and even then, because they're not optical, but a cheaper "wiper on track" system - the age of the mice meant about 50% of the ones I tried were too unreliable to be used.

Anyhow, attached is the wiring needed to convert them.
Wiring for Headstart Explorer..zip
(19.5 KiB) Downloaded 164 times
Mark.
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Zarchos
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Re: Bus port (Archie connector) mouse for sale.

Post by Zarchos » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:16 pm

Thanks a lot for the info, Mark, that's much appreciated.

Can you tell me more about the resistors needed ?

Thanks in advance.

Xavier.

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retroclinic
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Re: Bus port (Archie connector) mouse for sale.

Post by retroclinic » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:23 pm

Zarchos wrote:Thanks a lot for the info, Mark, that's much appreciated.

Can you tell me more about the resistors needed ?

Thanks in advance.

Xavier.
Just pullups, like 470R. Lower value will draw more current, but decrease the risetime.

Mark.
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Zarchos
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Re: Bus port (Archie connector) mouse for sale.

Post by Zarchos » Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:00 pm

Thanks for your help.

z80
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Re: Bus port (Archie connector) mouse for sale.

Post by z80 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:07 am

I'd expect they're worth holding on to (and maybe still sending out to folks) just for the cables. The RS ones are expensive unless in bulk, and when I looked into mouse resurrection via the "compatible PS/2 rewired" route, it seemed to me that cables are really the limit if you intend to actually use the mouse. All the hacks I could think of would end up with cables that are stiff enough that they'd interfere with movement, which would annoy me like a stone in my shoe.

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retroclinic
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Re: Bus port (Archie connector) mouse for sale.

Post by retroclinic » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:51 am

z80 wrote:I'd expect they're worth holding on to (and maybe still sending out to folks) just for the cables. The RS ones are expensive unless in bulk, and when I looked into mouse resurrection via the "compatible PS/2 rewired" route, it seemed to me that cables are really the limit if you intend to actually use the mouse. All the hacks I could think of would end up with cables that are stiff enough that they'd interfere with movement, which would annoy me like a stone in my shoe.
The original cables on those headstarts are no use for the arc at all, because they're missing one vital signal, hence why they need to be replaced. You can't even replace the connector, as the cable is one core too short.
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steve3000
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Re: Bus port (Archie connector) mouse for sale.

Post by steve3000 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:16 pm

retroclinic wrote:The original cables on those headstarts are no use for the arc at all, because they're missing one vital signal, hence why they need to be replaced. You can't even replace the connector, as the cable is one core too short.
If you lose the Adjust button you have enough connections - but limited to two buttons. Not ideal.

However, I'm sure I've read about a module that translates a two button mouse into three buttons by detecting a select+adjust simultaneous click and outputs a menu click in response to that...

So thinking along this line, with a little programming of such a module, I think you could get an 8-core cable to work fine, just load a module on boot, which translates a simultaneous select+menu as adjust - and changing the adjust action on the mouse itself to ground select+menu? Yes, it's more work, but it should do the job :)

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retroclinic
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Re: Bus port (Archie connector) mouse for sale.

Post by retroclinic » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:25 pm

From memory, the VCC is missing in the headstart mouse cable, so you'd need to change the plug to get that mouse to work, even if you lost a button. Agreed that the RS cable is a little thicker than ideal, but if you're going down the route of using a module loaded at boot, why not just load a serial port mouse driver, and use one of those?

Mark.
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Zarchos
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Re: Bus port (Archie connector) mouse for sale.

Post by Zarchos » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:34 pm

retroclinic wrote:From memory, the VCC is missing in the headstart mouse cable, so you'd need to change the plug to get that mouse to work, even if you lost a button. Agreed that the RS cable is a little thicker than ideal, but if you're going down the route of using a module loaded at boot, why not just load a serial port mouse driver, and use one of those?

Mark.
Well serial port is an option for A3000 Archies, and if you've got a mouse port connector it's a rather good idea to use it and leave the serial port connector available for other ... serial bits :wink:

steve3000
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Re: Bus port (Archie connector) mouse for sale.

Post by steve3000 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:48 pm

retroclinic wrote:From memory, the VCC is missing in the headstart mouse cable
Good point, now that would be a headache...

I have two of these bus mice now (thanks Z!), so shall investigate soon :)

YuT666

Re: Bus port (Archie connector) mouse for sale.

Post by YuT666 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:59 am

Received a Headstart mouse from Zarchos today (thanks Xavier) and i really wonder, if there are any news or working results after nearly 3 years ...

Zarchos
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Re: Bus port (Archie connector) mouse for sale.

Post by Zarchos » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:06 am

YuT666 wrote:Received a Headstart mouse from Zarchos today (thanks Xavier) and i really wonder, if there are any news or working results after nearly 3 years ...
Hey ! There are also 2 bus mouse connectors : check the envelope !

From the Net I understood some bus mouses have 9 or 10 wires in their lead(s ?) and with 'simple' rewiring they work with our beloved Acorns.

YuT666

Re: Bus port (Archie connector) mouse for sale.

Post by YuT666 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:24 am

Yes, i've seen the two connectors too.

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