Citadel on the Master Compact?

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radiorama
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Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by radiorama » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:49 pm

Hello everybody

I'm trying to run Citadel on my Master Compact with no success so far.
Using B-em it seems to run ok under BBC B and Master 128 modes.
Maybe there's some fiddling to do to run it on the Compact? Or is there a specific Master Compact version? Has anyone come across this problem before?

Thanks,
-- Carlo.

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by MatthewThompson » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:04 pm

I thought the Play It Again Sam version of Citadel would of been Master Compact compatible surely? I thought all the Superior Software titles from about 1986 onwards were compatible with all machines.

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by billcarr2005 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:10 pm

I think i've got the 3.5" disk of Citadel for the Master Compact... although it could be a random imagining. I'll check later, and see if it's possible to compare the files.

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by radiorama » Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:08 pm

@MatthewThompson:
That's my understanding too. Unfortunately, the disc images that are floating around the net seem to be the original (BBC/Elk) version. Moreover, PIAS images cannot be found anywhere on the Internet.

@billcarr2005:
Thanks! would be great if you could find it.

-- Carlo.

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by MatthewThompson » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:25 pm

It's a thought but maybe it's worth contacting Superior Interactive at
http://www.superiorinteractive.com and asking them if they still have any copies available for sale, they did recently there was a thread on here about it.

There was a Master Compact stand alone version of Citadel (see cover scan in the cover scans section) so there is at least 2 versions available of Citadel
which should run on the Master Compact.

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by radiorama » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:13 am

MatthewThompson wrote:It's a thought but maybe it's worth contacting Superior Interactive at
http://www.superiorinteractive.com and asking them if they still have any copies available for sale, they did recently there was a thread on here about it.
Following your advice I contacted Superior, and Richard Hanson promptly replied saying I should contact his brother, Dr. Steven Hanson, who is managing the BBC Micro side of their business. I did so several days ago but got no reply yet.
I'll keep waiting for new developments...

-- C.

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by MatthewThompson » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:51 pm

I've not had a reply from him either when I emailed him in the past about a number of things. Richard on the other hand always replies.

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by Rich Talbot-Watkins » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:44 pm

Funnily enough, I know a little bit about Citadel on the Master. I used to play this cheat version on the Beebs at school all the time, and I loved it (particularly with the 'fly' button and the speed turned up to insane levels). On my Master at home, it used to hang after writing 'Welcome to...' on the title page, which disappointed me hugely. It was only until I tried a friend's tape version that I was able to play it on my Master OK.

The original release of Citadel was not Master compatible (I can't remember exactly why, I think it made liberal use of certain OS/VDU workspace which the Master OS wasn't happy with).

The original release (as a tape image) is here, and on a Master it behaves exactly as I remember my hacked version used to - hanging on the title page.

When the Master came along, they had to patch the original code so that it was compatible - this involved storing a little bit of extra code which wouldn't fit anywhere else in Sideways RAM bank 5, as mentioned in one of the Hac Man columns in The Micro User. I don't know if this was done prior to the Play It Again Sam compilation version (thus creating two distinct standalone releases) or not. Anyway, this version can be found (as a tape image) here.

The disc image version in the STH archive here also seems to be the Master compatible re-release, as it contains the code to relocate to SRAM bank 5.

So there you have it - the history of Citadel! My guess is, if your version works ok on a Master 128, it should be ok on the Compact. But make sure that you have SRAM bank 5 enabled, rather than disabled in favour of one of the ROM sockets (I have no idea if the Compact has this facility, but on a Master 128 it can be controlled by a DIP switch).

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by Kecske Bak » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:05 pm

ISTR the Master version of Citadel was a bit rough as some of the plotting goes slightly skew-whiff (e.g. the monk on a red rock in the wasteland) and some of the lovely hatched fill patterns are missing.

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by radiorama » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:23 pm

Thanks Rich,

I tried the disc image you pointed me to: it works in Master 128 mode but not in Master Compact mode in B-em. I haven't tried it on my actual Compact yet as I'm not home at the moment, but I bet it won't work, 'cause that's exactly what the other versions did (they run in Master 128 mode but not on emulated or physical Compacts).
The Hac Man bit is very interesting.

<lamer_mode>
I haven't been able to try the tape image on a Master or Compact because I don't know how to extract files from it... is there some utility to do just that? Sorry but I never owned a tape-based system. I tried manually transferring files from tape to disc on the emulator but it won't copy the file "CITAL" because it's "Locked", whatever it means on a tape. I tried *ACCESS but it doesn't seem to work on tapes, so I'm stuck.
</lamer_mode>

Guess I'll have to trace the program in both Master and Compact modes under the B-em debugger to see what goes wrong on the Compact. Maybe tomorrow if I find a bit of time to set it all up.

-- Carlo.

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by Rich Talbot-Watkins » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:31 pm

Ahh what a shame. What does it do in Master Compact mode?

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by Rich Talbot-Watkins » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:11 pm

I'm sure it's an FAQ, but to *LOAD a 'locked' tape file, enter the following line of code first:

Code: Select all

P%=&120:[OPT2:LDA&3CA:AND#254:STA&3CA:RTS:]?&220=&20:?&221=1:*FX14,4
This just interrupts every 50th of a second and unsets the 'locked' bit in the most recently loaded tape header. By the time the entire header has loaded, and the OS checks the locked bit, this interrupt has already cleared it long ago.

Then just *OPT 1,2 to output all the file info when it's loaded (length, load and exec addresses), and *LOAD as normal.

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by radiorama » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:27 pm

Rich Talbot-Watkins wrote:Ahh what a shame. What does it do in Master Compact mode?
It does exactly as you said - hangs after writing "welcome to..."
By the way, is there really no utility to extract files from tape archives?
-- C.

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by Rich Talbot-Watkins » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:24 am

OK, the problem is in the way it checks for whether it's running on a Master or not. I presume this version of Citadel was created to patch for the Master, but not the Master Compact (it probably hadn't been released yet).

So, on the disc image of Citadel from the STH archive here, in the file CITAL, is the following code:

Code: Select all

5720  LDX #&01
5722  LDA #&00
5724  JSR &FFF4
5727  TXA
5728  CMP #&03
572A  BEQ &572D
572C  RTS
572D  JSR &5690    ; patch for Master here
It's checking only for Master (return code 3), but not for Master ET (return code 4) or Compact (return code 5).

So I suspect the solution is simply to change that BEQ to a BCS, i.e.

Code: Select all

>*LOAD CITAL
>?&572A=&B0
>*SAVE CITAL 5400+400 5436
Give it a try - I reckon that'll fix it.

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by radiorama » Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:05 pm

Rich,
that did the trick. Thank you very much!

-- Carlo.

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by Rich Talbot-Watkins » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:18 am

Hurrah! Glad we got to the bottom of that!
Kecske Bak wrote:ISTR the Master version of Citadel was a bit rough as some of the plotting goes slightly skew-whiff (e.g. the monk on a red rock in the wasteland) and some of the lovely hatched fill patterns are missing.
Yeah, now you mention it, there certainly *are* some differences, e.g. the bottom of the roof of the Witch's House is wonky on the Master. There must be some difference in the way triangles are plotted between OS 1.20 and OS 3.20 (actually I think there *was* a bug in the original Beeb in how triangles with near-horizontal edges were plotted, so maybe it's an artifact of that bugfix on the Master).

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by Kecske Bak » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:16 pm

Yes. If you go to the West Gate, you'll notice a fill missing on the slope up to the drawbridge too.
witch.png
Witch's House - BBC Model B
witch.png (3.42 KiB) Viewed 2847 times
witch_master.png
Witch's House - BBC Master 128
witch_master.png (3.09 KiB) Viewed 2847 times

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by RichP » Sat May 19, 2012 6:00 pm

Not much help now i know, but i used to have Citadel on the Master Compact -the standalone game before it appeared on compilations. Was one of the happiest days of my childhood the day i went with my dad to get that game :D

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by jms2 » Sun May 20, 2012 9:04 pm

Was one of the happiest days of my childhood the day i went with my dad to get that game
Nostalgia like that is one of the really great things about this forum. :)

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by mjforbes » Mon May 21, 2012 7:38 am

jms2 wrote:Nostalgia like that is one of the really great things about this forum. :)
Indeed! I still remember the day that my dad took me to Electronequip in Fareham to get my "B". The car flatly refused to start (thank you mum for leaving the lights on, or maybe the fact that it was an Austin Ambassador, and therefore, fundamentally shit!), so we grabbed a 74A Leyland National up to town.

Daddykins walked in, grabbed the first sales bloke he saw, and demanded "BBC B, dual drive, colour monitor and Elite, please", whacking a Barclaycard on the counter. The DFS interface had to be fitted, so we buggered off to the pub for an hour (him on pints of Whitbread Best, me on cokes), then we dragged the whole lot home on the bus. This was at the start of the Easter holidays, and I don't think I left the house for a fortnight, apart from nipping around to Tom's place to borrow/copy some games ... :)

Oh - the memories! Still got the "B", although the CUB didn't survive one of the house moves (got compensation from the removal firm though...)

M
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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by Jeremy Grayson » Mon May 21, 2012 1:37 pm

mjforbes wrote: so we grabbed a 74A Leyland National up to town.
Now we're talking.

Image

Ahhhh, Leyland Nationals. Other than possessing the wrong number of decks, nothing not to love about them. 8)

gc
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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by mjforbes » Mon May 21, 2012 2:04 pm

Jeremy Grayson wrote: Ahhhh, Leyland Nationals. Other than possessing the wrong number of decks, nothing not to love about them. 8)
gc
Apart from the fact that the original engines overheated the second that the sun came out, the bodywork rattled itself loose after about 10000 miles, and the "power assisted" steering kicked in as and when it felt like it - nothing wrong at all!

Two ex NBC Provincial examples (WFX 257S and A301 KJT - a Nat 2) are owned and preserved by friends, and they ride better now in private hands then they ever did under NBC - great beasts to drive - better than the crap that I'm driving now; Darts, Volvo B10s, Olympians, Scanias (L94UBs, K114s and K340/460s) and the odd Merc minibus/breadvan (apart from the new Volvo B7RLEs - smooth as silk)

Bugger - gone off-topic again! Ho-hum ;) Apologies to the purists ...

M
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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by TopBanana » Mon May 21, 2012 3:27 pm

mjforbes wrote:
Bugger - gone off-topic again! Ho-hum ;) Apologies to the purists ...

M
Bus/Coach driver with an Econet. Who plays Elite regularly (daft effort to "steer" things back on topic)
Off topic - shocking :shock: It gives the impression that we're not geeks when you do that and that we may, possibly, if you look hard enough, actually have some interpersonal skills.

And are you Elite yet ?

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by paulv » Mon May 21, 2012 4:11 pm

Apart from the fact that the original engines overheated the second that the sun came out,
Or catch fire when the diesel line springs a leak and spews diesel all over the engine bay as one did when I was going to school on it..

The fire extinguisher was fitted behind "safety glass" which couldn't be broken :twisted:. The Police turned up before the Fire Brigade and used a crow bar to eventually smash the glass and then the bus driver put the fire out. The Fire Brigade turned up 2 minutes later but everything was sorted by then :roll:

Paul

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by jms2 » Mon May 21, 2012 7:25 pm

mjforbes wrote:
Indeed! I still remember the day that my dad took me to Electronequip in Fareham to get my "B".
Leaving buses aside for a moment... I remember that shop! We used to live in Hedge End (which was on the 76/77 route as I recall... oops sorry), and I remember going there in about 1985. At that time I had an Electron and had become tired of its many limitations. I went to Electronequip with the intention of buying a Plus 1 and a disc interface of some kind. To my great disappointment, the sales guy was disinterested and told me that I shouldn't bother, and that a second hand BBC was a much better option.

Although this was entirely accurate and good advice, one should never slag off the Electron in front of an Electron owner, and I found it very annoying. Some time later, though, I did get a Beeb as advised.

By 1987 I recall seeing an Archimedes in Electronequip, spewing Mandelbrots onto the screen at incredible speed. However they had started selling PCs by then so the rot had well and truly set in. I presume the shop no longer exists.

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by mjforbes » Tue May 22, 2012 6:31 am

jms2 wrote: I presume the shop no longer exists.
The shop itself is still there, but hasn't been Electronequip for nearly 20 years. When they bulldozed the old bus station and most of the other buildings on the south side of West Street, there were plans to clear the 'older' shops between the middle and west entrances to the shopping centre, but for some reason these plans were canned, so what was E'quip remains.

I think it's now a dry-cleaners or some local charity shop - I'll be in Fareham tomorrow to grab an Irizar i6 for a trip to Cornwall, so will take a look.

Glad to see that I'm not the only Hants lad here!

Cheers,

Matt

(and the 76/77 were Hedge End routes, until NSE opened the station there - they then became an extension of the 8/8A and ran to Scumhapton. I think!
Last edited by mjforbes on Tue May 22, 2012 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by mjforbes » Tue May 22, 2012 6:38 am

TopBanana wrote: Off topic - shocking :shock: It gives the impression that we're not geeks when you do that and that we may, possibly, if you look hard enough, actually have some interpersonal skills.
Geeks? Us? Nah!
TopBanana wrote: And are you Elite yet ?
Oh yesss, Sir Banana! Time to restart and annoy people for another few months ;)

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Re: Citadel on the Master Compact?

Post by TopBanana » Tue May 22, 2012 8:52 am

lol - get to it man, no excuses, picture and progress reports too :lol:

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