Elementum - new Elk/Beeb platformer

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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by 0xC0DE » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:50 pm

Thanks tricky! That means a lot to me coming from you. I will definitely get back to you or Kieran on Beeb specifics like a custom MODE 1.
Don't let me stop you from creating a game. I'm sure you could give it your own 'spin' (see what I did there?)
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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by Marvin » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:58 pm

0xC0DE wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:16 am
OK, OK, here's a very easy beginner level! :mrgreen:
Screenshot-2.png
Yes, that's very much easier, I only died a couple of times but actually managed to complete the whole level \:D/

I noticed your collision detection might need a bit of tweaking or are you being generous ?
Because the following picture shows me living when I'd expect to die...
nameless13.png
nameless13.png (1.29 KiB) Viewed 859 times

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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by 0xC0DE » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:32 pm

Hi Marvin, excellent play! Now try to beat the current fastest time of 16 seconds (50 points) done by me :lol:
Proof: https://twitter.com/0xC0DE6502/status/1 ... 3553073152

And very perceptive of you on the collision detection. Yes, that's me being generous. Or lazy. I kept the 16x16 bounding box even for the larger 24x16 sprite. So take advantage of that while it lasts! :wink:
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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by Snuggsy187 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:05 pm

Yeah maybe 8) Doesn't look like I can spare the extra 10K of precious memory though. Perhaps if you could help me create a custom 256x256x4 MODE 1 on the Beeb?

That would give you back 4K of memory running 256 bytes wide I think. Wish I could have done that with Pooyan - it's running at &1C0 bytes per character row, which gives back more memory, but is quite annoying actually ! :(

Again, excellent work ! :D
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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by 0xC0DE » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:23 am

Snuggsy187 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:05 pm
That would give you back 4K of memory running 256 bytes wide I think. Wish I could have done that with Pooyan - it's running at &1C0 bytes per character row, which gives back more memory, but is quite annoying actually ! :(

Again, excellent work ! :D
Thanks Neil! You know what's even more annoying? I'm using 256x256 in MODE 4 on the Electron but it's still taking 10K :?
It makes some calculations much easier (x and y coords) but the screen address layout is still the same, i.e. still have to add 320 to get to the next char row.
A modified MODE 1 (256x256) on the Beeb would save 4K and you only have to inc/dec the hi byte of the screen address to switch char rows.

Why can't you make the switch to 256 bytes? Too much to rewrite?
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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by Snuggsy187 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:16 am

It's time for some random data down the sides of your screen ! :lol:

I wanted to keep it true to the original arcade (224x256).

It's only 4 more columns, but because the background is blue, there would a blue column either side of the play area, which might look a bit strange. I suppose I could redesign the trees...... hmmmm..... :-k
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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by kieranhj » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:20 am

0xC0DE wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:23 am
A modified MODE 1 (256x256) on the Beeb would save 4K and you only have to inc/dec the hi byte of the screen address to switch char rows.
A square MODE 1 (256x256) on the Beeb takes 16K but you still need to increment two pages to get to the next character row as there are 64 columns * 8 bytes per char = 512 bytes per row.

I don't know how aggressive you're being with RAM on the Elk but you can use pretty much all of the rest of the 16K on the Beeb if you're not wanting to use any MOS calls for sound. If you're animating 2 pixels at a time you wouldn't need as many shifted sprites, as there are only 4 pixels per byte, but obviously 2bpp sprites take up twice as much space. :) I guess you could store them as 1bpp and convert to 2bpp on the fly (that's what I did with my AGD colour prototype) but might be a bit expensive.
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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by picosonic » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:21 am

0xC0DE wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:23 am
A modified MODE 1 (256x256) on the Beeb would save 4K and you only have to inc/dec the hi byte of the screen address to switch char rows.
I went with 256 pixels wide for my NES Bomberman port to Beeb, creating a custom 256x224 (4 colour) mode to match the NES native mode.
Saves 6k compared to standard mode 1.

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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by 0xC0DE » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:09 am

kieranhj wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:20 am
A square MODE 1 (256x256) on the Beeb takes 16K but you still need to increment two pages to get to the next character row as there are 64 columns * 8 bytes per char = 512 bytes per row.


You are right of course. 512 is still much better than 640. Curse you Acorn ;)
kieranhj wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:20 am
I don't know how aggressive you're being with RAM on the Elk but you can use pretty much all of the rest of the 16K on the Beeb if you're not wanting to use any MOS calls for sound. If you're animating 2 pixels at a time you wouldn't need as many shifted sprites, as there are only 4 pixels per byte, but obviously 2bpp sprites take up twice as much space. :) I guess you could store them as 1bpp and convert to 2bpp on the fly (that's what I did with my AGD colour prototype) but might be a bit expensive.
Very aggressive. No MOS allowed in my demos or games. No byte left unused. Everything is hand rolled. I do indeed animate 2 pixels at a time. I could use more concise sprite plotting routines on the Beeb because it is faster than the Elk. I don't want to get ahead of myself and lose motivation though. So I will be creating a multi platform MODE 4 version first and maybe an enhanced MODE 1 version for the Beeb later.
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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by Arcadian » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:21 pm

I'd be perfectly content with Mode 4 versions on both the Beeb and Elk! :) :P

Maybe if a Mode 1 version were to be produced in the future, it could also be designed to work on an Electron Turbo with 16k s/w ram?
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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by lurkio » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:33 pm

Arcadian wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:21 pm
I'd be perfectly content with Mode 4 versions on both the Beeb and Elk!
Agreed!

:D

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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by Arcadian » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:46 pm

Yeah, I applaud the fact that the Electron is the lead development platform for this (astounding looking) game - reckon it would be a shame if a bells and whistles version for the Beeb were to 'overshadow' the original.

*If* it does end up getting spruced up, then I'd like to see the Electron follow suit, even if it means an increased spec Elk is needed...
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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by 0xC0DE » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:57 pm

Thanks for all the encouragement guys! Some great ideas here. Don't worry, you know me, of course the Electron version will be in the lead here!
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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by tricky » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:25 pm

Snuggsy187 wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:16 am
...I wanted to keep it true to the original arcade (224x256)...
If you get desperate for space, I run my vertical games 224x256 and "hide" the sides using virtual rupture and an interrupt every 16 scanlines ;)

I will do a platformer one day, but have already sidetracked myself with a new project. I will probably preview it at the virtual Dev night tonight, now that I have something on screen.

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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by 0xC0DE » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:43 pm

picosonic wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:21 am
I went with 256 pixels wide for my NES Bomberman port to Beeb, creating a custom 256x224 (4 colour) mode to match the NES native mode.
Saves 6k compared to standard mode 1.
It's probably totally my fault (and I'm more of an Elkoholic as you know) but where can I find your Bomberman port?
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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by picosonic » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:22 pm

0xC0DE wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:43 pm
picosonic wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:21 am
I went with 256 pixels wide for my NES Bomberman port to Beeb, creating a custom 256x224 (4 colour) mode to match the NES native mode.
Saves 6k compared to standard mode 1.
It's probably totally my fault (and I'm more of an Elkoholic as you know) but where can I find your Bomberman port?
It’s nowhere near playable yet, so not released, my WIP is on GitHub

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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by 0xC0DE » Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:07 pm

Update. Posted version 0.14 in the original post. Playable demo with four levels.
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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by Marvin » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Level 4 is a sod.... still not managed it yet.

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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by 0xC0DE » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:46 pm

Marvin wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:59 pm
Level 4 is a sod.... still not managed it yet.
I thought level 4 was not too bad. Are you sure it's not level 3? :mrgreen:
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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by Marvin » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:30 pm

0xC0DE wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:46 pm
Marvin wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:59 pm
Level 4 is a sod.... still not managed it yet.
I thought level 4 was not too bad. Are you sure it's not level 3? :mrgreen:
Yeah my mistake, level 3, got them all except the number 1 in the middle of the screen, that bit is doing my head in... grrrr

Is there a bit of buffering going on with the keyboard input because the ball bounces a couple of extra times after the key has been released if it's been bouncing a lot before ?

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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by 0xC0DE » Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:29 am

Marvin wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:30 pm
Is there a bit of buffering going on with the keyboard input because the ball bounces a couple of extra times after the key has been released if it's been bouncing a lot before ?
I've only noticed that in Elkulator, not in any other emulator or on a real machine. Elkulator also sometimes misses key presses. Are you playing on Elkulator? I'm inclined to say that something is wrong with the key buffering in that emulator.
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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by picosonic » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:14 am

0xC0DE wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:07 pm
Update. Posted version 0.14 in the original post. Playable demo with four levels.
Looks great, nice to have all the levels with different elements, and the level intros too work well. So much easier without the enemies, was this a debug build?

How much more space do you have for adding further levels?

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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by 0xC0DE » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:22 am

picosonic wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:14 am
0xC0DE wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:07 pm
Update. Posted version 0.14 in the original post. Playable demo with four levels.
Looks great, nice to have all the levels with different elements, and the level intros too work well. So much easier without the enemies, was this a debug build?

How much more space do you have for adding further levels?
Thanks Jasper! Enemies slowly make their appearance from level 4! Currently I'm aiming at 16-20 levels.
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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by Marvin » Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:50 pm

0xC0DE wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:29 am
Marvin wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:30 pm
Is there a bit of buffering going on with the keyboard input because the ball bounces a couple of extra times after the key has been released if it's been bouncing a lot before ?
I've only noticed that in Elkulator, not in any other emulator or on a real machine. Elkulator also sometimes misses key presses. Are you playing on Elkulator? I'm inclined to say that something is wrong with the key buffering in that emulator.
Yeah I was being lazy and playing on Elkulator, I'll have to use my Arc to write a floppy disc and try it on my actual Elk instead.

0xC0DE wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:22 am
picosonic wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:14 am
0xC0DE wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:07 pm
Update. Posted version 0.14 in the original post. Playable demo with four levels.
Looks great, nice to have all the levels with different elements, and the level intros too work well. So much easier without the enemies, was this a debug build?

How much more space do you have for adding further levels?
Thanks Jasper! Enemies slowly make their appearance from level 4! Currently I'm aiming at 16-20 levels.
How about first having all the levels with no enemies and then all the same levels again but with enemies ? Kinda like Chuckie Egg where it repeats the levels but with the Duck being free making the task harder ?

Twice the number of levels to complete for virtually the same memory requirements :D

How hard is it to design levels ? perhaps a stand alone level designer could be included on the disc image allowing for us to create more levels ?

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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by 0xC0DE » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:08 pm

Marvin wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:50 pm
How about first having all the levels with no enemies and then all the same levels again but with enemies ? Kinda like Chuckie Egg where it repeats the levels but with the Duck being free making the task harder ?

Twice the number of levels to complete for virtually the same memory requirements :D

How hard is it to design levels ? perhaps a stand alone level designer could be included on the disc image allowing for us to create more levels ?
I am actually thinking about something like The Duck from Chuckie Egg.
I'm using external tools to design the levels. A built-in level designer is not in my current planning but who knows.... :D
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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by picosonic » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:47 pm

0xC0DE wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:08 pm
I am actually thinking about something like The Duck from Chuckie Egg.
I'm using external tools to design the levels. A built-in level designer is not in my current planning but who knows.... :D
That would be good to have a free roaming flying enemy when you visit the levels a second time.

Be careful of feature creep and putting too much on your todo list. I always fall into that trap :wink:

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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by Marvin » Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:38 pm

0xC0DE wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:08 pm
I'm using external tools to design the levels. A built-in level designer is not in my current planning but who knows.... :D
I wasn't suggesting a built-in level designer but rather an external program. Since you are already using an external program to design the levels could that be included on the disc image so we can all create new levels ?

Keep up the good work, I'm really enjoying playing the new levels even if I am ](*,) sometimes

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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by tricky » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:01 pm

Speaking of feature creep, I was thinking of electro-attraction/repulsion, or whatever it is called, you are an electron after all.
Even more feature creep, a switch to change your or their charges.

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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by 0xC0DE » Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:54 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone! I'm definitely considering them for the future. But for now I need to focus on actually finishing a basic game for once in my life :lol:
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Re: New Elk platformer - playable demo

Post by roland » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:24 pm

Marvin wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:50 pm
Yeah I was being lazy and playing on Elkulator, I'll have to use my Arc to write a floppy disc and try it on my actual Elk instead.
You can also buy an Electron WiFi card so you can simply download the game from a web server. No hassle with floppy discs any more :mrgreen:
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