Acornsoft View versions

bbc/electron apps, languages, utils, educational progs, demos + more
Post Reply
User avatar
Lion
Posts: 425
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:56 pm
Location: Woodside, California
Contact:

Acornsoft View versions

Post by Lion » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:15 pm

Is the version of View supplied in the Master OS ROM the last version available for the Master? Or were there further updates?

Bonus question: Is there a version of View (or, actually, any word processor) that can use the extended RAM in the PiTubeDirect fast 6502 mode?

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 8329
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:51 pm
Location: Manchester
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by danielj » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:57 am

The version in MOS3.5 is probably the final version. (B3.30)? Unless a later version was supplied on the welcome disc with the Master Compact?

I'm fairly sure the version in MOS3.5 will copy itself over the tube and run as Hi-View. I don't know if the version in 3.2 does? There was a Hi version of view that ran on the beeb too AFAIK.

d.

User avatar
Lion
Posts: 425
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:56 pm
Location: Woodside, California
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by Lion » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:13 pm

MOS 3.5 View reports 28926 bytes free with the tube disabled and 47943 with it turned on, so it's definitely using a few extra K.

PiTubeDirect provides a megabyte of banked RAM in this mode. I just wondered if any existing software would even know to look for it.

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 8329
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:51 pm
Location: Manchester
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by danielj » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:41 pm

Oh, goodness no. The banked thing wasn't a standard feature of the RAM on the coprocessors that were available at the time.

User avatar
jgharston
Posts: 4078
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:22 pm
Location: Whitby/Sheffield
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by jgharston » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:11 pm

danielj wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:57 am
I'm fairly sure the version in MOS3.5 will copy itself over the tube and run as Hi-View. I don't know if the version in 3.2 does.
Yep it does, and it's written in 6502 code, not 65C12, so runs on the Beeb and relocates onto a 6502 CoPro on the Beeb.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.32
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2020
>_

User avatar
Hopper
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:13 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado. or Glasgow UK
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by Hopper » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:12 pm

Where did Acornsoft View professional fit in?

User avatar
Pernod
Posts: 2185
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:01 pm
Location: Croydon, UK
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by Pernod » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:47 pm

There are various versions of VIEW:
0161.png
View A1.4 - original BBC version (1982)
0160.png
View A2.1 - updated BBC version (1984)
0159.png
View D2.1 - Tube compatible version
0158.png
View A3.0 - official VIEW3 release (1986)
0157.png
View A3.0 pms - is this a hack?
0059.png
View B3.0 - found in MOS 3.20
0003.png
View B3.11 (also B3.1) - found on Compact Welcome disk
0004.png
View I3.2 - found on Prodest 128S Welcome disk
0060.png
View B3.3 - found in MOS 3.50
View Professional 1.0
View Professional 2.0

Anyone know whether my comments are correct?
Last edited by Pernod on Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:54 pm, edited 8 times in total.
- Nigel

BBC Model B: ATPL Sidewise, Acorn Speech, 2xWatford Floppy Drives, AMX Mouse, Viglen case, BeebZIF, etc.

User avatar
jgharston
Posts: 4078
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:22 pm
Location: Whitby/Sheffield
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by jgharston » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:55 pm

Is there any logic to the version strings?

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.32
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2020
>_

User avatar
Pernod
Posts: 2185
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:01 pm
Location: Croydon, UK
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by Pernod » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:57 pm

jgharston wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:55 pm
Is there any logic to the version strings?
Well, I'm assuming the Ax.xx were the original BBC B releases and Bx.xx for Master series, but no idea where the D2.1 fits in.

I always thought Acornsoft released only two versions of View for the Model B, original View (A1.4 or A2.1?) and the later View3 (A3.0). Did maybe PMS release a modified version for use with their products?
- Nigel

BBC Model B: ATPL Sidewise, Acorn Speech, 2xWatford Floppy Drives, AMX Mouse, Viglen case, BeebZIF, etc.

User avatar
Pernod
Posts: 2185
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:01 pm
Location: Croydon, UK
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by Pernod » Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:53 pm

I've updated my post with screenshots to include the versions that came with the Compact.

Version D2.1 contains text "Tube compatible version", so looks like an official updated A2.1.

So it's just the version A3.0 pms that is an unknown.
- Nigel

BBC Model B: ATPL Sidewise, Acorn Speech, 2xWatford Floppy Drives, AMX Mouse, Viglen case, BeebZIF, etc.

User avatar
Wheel_nut
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 1:46 pm
Location: West of Scotland
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by Wheel_nut » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:51 am

Pernod wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:57 pm
jgharston wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:55 pm
Is there any logic to the version strings?
Well, I'm assuming the Ax.xx were the original BBC B releases and Bx.xx for Master series, but no idea where the D2.1 fits in.

I always thought Acornsoft released only two versions of View for the Model B, original View (A1.4 or A2.1?) and the later View3 (A3.0). Did maybe PMS release a modified version for use with their products?
I tried to run View3.0 on my BBC B and it doesn't seem to work. I reverted to ViewA2.1 and it seems to work well.

Am I correct in deducing that View3.0 was only for the Master and later machines?

Edit: The MDFS repository lists the following versions. Any clues as to which Hardware these will run on?
ViewA140 VIEW 1.40 (C)1982 Protechnic
ViewA210 VIEW 2.10 (C)1982 Protechnic
ViewA300 VIEW 3.00 (C)1982 Acornsoft
ViewB210 VIEW 2.10 (C)1982 Protechnic
ViewB300 VIEW 3.00 (C)1982 Acornsoft
ViewB311 VIEW 3.11 (C)1982 Acornsoft
ViewD210 VIEW 2.10 (C)1982 Protechnic
ViewJ300 VIEW 3.00 (C)JGH+Acornsoft
Last edited by Wheel_nut on Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
#1 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 1770 DFS + Dual TEAC Floppy
#2 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Dual Floppy + Speech
#3 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Cumana Single Floppy + PiTubeDirect on KenLowe's Tube Level Shifter

User avatar
Pernod
Posts: 2185
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:01 pm
Location: Croydon, UK
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by Pernod » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:00 am

Wheel_nut wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:51 am
I tried to run View3.0 on my BBC B and it doesn't seem to work. I reverted to ViewA2.1 and it seems to work well.

Am I correct in deducing that View3.0 was only for the Master and later machines?
For BBC B you need A3.0, whereas B3.0 is Master only.
- Nigel

BBC Model B: ATPL Sidewise, Acorn Speech, 2xWatford Floppy Drives, AMX Mouse, Viglen case, BeebZIF, etc.

User avatar
Wheel_nut
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 1:46 pm
Location: West of Scotland
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by Wheel_nut » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:40 am

Pernod wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:00 am
Wheel_nut wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:51 am
I tried to run View3.0 on my BBC B and it doesn't seem to work. I reverted to ViewA2.1 and it seems to work well.

Am I correct in deducing that View3.0 was only for the Master and later machines?
For BBC B you need A3.0, whereas B3.0 is Master only.
I downloaded ViewA3.00 from the MDFS site and it doesn't work on my BBC B. I also noticed that it is only 15k long rather than the normal 16k for a ROM Image.

Could I ask you to upload your ViewA3.00 Image and give me a linky to it please. I cannot find a working Image anywhere. :(
#1 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 1770 DFS + Dual TEAC Floppy
#2 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Dual Floppy + Speech
#3 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Cumana Single Floppy + PiTubeDirect on KenLowe's Tube Level Shifter

User avatar
Pernod
Posts: 2185
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:01 pm
Location: Croydon, UK
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by Pernod » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:51 am

Wheel_nut wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:40 am
Could I ask you to upload your ViewA3.00 Image and give me a linky to it please. I cannot find a working Image anywhere. :(
https://acorn.huininga.nl/pub/roms/Acornsoft/View/
- Nigel

BBC Model B: ATPL Sidewise, Acorn Speech, 2xWatford Floppy Drives, AMX Mouse, Viglen case, BeebZIF, etc.

User avatar
Wheel_nut
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 1:46 pm
Location: West of Scotland
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by Wheel_nut » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:28 pm

Thank you Nigel. I have downloaded ViewA3.0 and am currently running it in Sideways RAM. The first surprise was that it is invoked by *VIEW rather than *WORD as with ViewA2.1. Having got past that gotcha, everything seems to be working as documented and I shall commit it to EPROM once I have decided where in the heirarchy to put it. Because I am using 27512 EPROMs with four ROM Images stacked in each Socket, this needs some planning. :roll:

Thank you again for your help. ... Robin
#1 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 1770 DFS + Dual TEAC Floppy
#2 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Dual Floppy + Speech
#3 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Cumana Single Floppy + PiTubeDirect on KenLowe's Tube Level Shifter

User avatar
Pernod
Posts: 2185
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:01 pm
Location: Croydon, UK
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by Pernod » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:55 pm

Wheel_nut wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:28 pm
The first surprise was that it is invoked by *VIEW rather than *WORD as with ViewA2.1.
Yeah, not sure whether that version is official. There are two versions of A3.0 at http://bbc.nvg.org/rom/Acorn/apps/

The A3.0x uses *WORD and A3.0 uses *VIEW. Also the A3.0 contains some &EA NOPs so is probably hacked. I'd really like to know the history of these to confirm which is the official Acorn release and whether the other is a third-party release to avoid a conflict, maybe by Slogger?
- Nigel

BBC Model B: ATPL Sidewise, Acorn Speech, 2xWatford Floppy Drives, AMX Mouse, Viglen case, BeebZIF, etc.

User avatar
Wheel_nut
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 1:46 pm
Location: West of Scotland
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by Wheel_nut » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:10 pm

Pernod wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:55 pm
Wheel_nut wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:28 pm
The first surprise was that it is invoked by *VIEW rather than *WORD as with ViewA2.1.
Yeah, not sure whether that version is official. There are two versions of A3.0 at http://bbc.nvg.org/rom/Acorn/apps/

The A3.0x uses *WORD and A3.0 uses *VIEW. Also the A3.0 contains some &EA NOPs so is probably hacked. I'd really like to know the history of these to confirm which is the official Acorn release and whether the other is a third-party release to avoid a conflict, maybe by Slogger?
Hmmmmm .... Is it likely that ALL View3.0 versions are versions of the Master version, hacked to work on the BBC B? A dump of the ROM doesn't identify it as any Version. I suggest this because all of the discrete View documentation seems to top out at Version 2.1.

Ihaven't found any documented functions in View3.0 over that documented for View 2.1 so what would be the advantage of using View3.0? Are there any known bugs in View2.1?
#1 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 1770 DFS + Dual TEAC Floppy
#2 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Dual Floppy + Speech
#3 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Cumana Single Floppy + PiTubeDirect on KenLowe's Tube Level Shifter

User avatar
Pernod
Posts: 2185
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:01 pm
Location: Croydon, UK
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by Pernod » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:36 pm

Wheel_nut wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:10 pm
Hmmmmm .... Is it likely that ALL View3.0 versions are versions of the Master version, hacked to work on the BBC B? A dump of the ROM doesn't identify it as any Version. I suggest this because all of the discrete View documentation seems to top out at Version 2.1.
I've seen View 3 advertised, which must be a BBC version as it's included by default in all Masters. The View B3.0 dumps are presumably just extracts from MOS 3.20. I also haven't found any standalone View 3 documentation.
- Nigel

BBC Model B: ATPL Sidewise, Acorn Speech, 2xWatford Floppy Drives, AMX Mouse, Viglen case, BeebZIF, etc.

User avatar
jgharston
Posts: 4078
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:22 pm
Location: Whitby/Sheffield
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by jgharston » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:16 am

View B3.0 from the Master works on the Beeb, as that's the version I use (patched slightly as J3.0), and have been typing with it just an hour ago.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.32
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2020
>_

User avatar
Wheel_nut
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 1:46 pm
Location: West of Scotland
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by Wheel_nut » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:43 am

jgharston wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:16 am
View B3.0 from the Master works on the Beeb, as that's the version I use (patched slightly as J3.0), and have been typing with it just an hour ago.
Hi jgharston and thank you for the pointers.

I have just downloaded ViewB300 and ViewJ300 from your MDFS site and will try them when the Sun comes up again :)

Some questions:
1) ViewB300 downloaded as a 16kB file but ViewJ300 downloaded as a 15kB file. Is this OK?
2) If ViewB300 from the Master works on the BBC B, What is the "Patch" on ViewJ300 and Why?
3) What is the benefit of using V3.00 over V2.1? Are there any functional or stability improvements?

Thank you again for your clarifications, ... Robin
#1 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 1770 DFS + Dual TEAC Floppy
#2 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Dual Floppy + Speech
#3 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Cumana Single Floppy + PiTubeDirect on KenLowe's Tube Level Shifter

User avatar
jgharston
Posts: 4078
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:22 pm
Location: Whitby/Sheffield
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by jgharston » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:08 am

Wheel_nut wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:43 am
2) If ViewB300 from the Master works on the BBC B, What is the "Patch" on ViewJ300 and Why?
3) What is the benefit of using V3.00 over V2.1? Are there any functional or stability improvements?
See http://mdfs.net/Apps/Text/Editors/
Extensions to VIEW
==================
VIEW is extended as follows:

VIEW starts up with format/insert F-I instead of format/overwrite FJ-.

COUNT respond with 'xxxx words counted' instead of 'word(s) counted', as it
is very unlikely that you will actually count one word.

SAVE sets the load address to &FFFFFF00 so it is recognised as filetyped to
&FFF (Text) by RISC OS/Archimedes systems and HADFS.

READ converts LF/CR, CR/LF and LF to CR, so *SPOOL, Arc and PC text files
can easily by read in, and also allows top-bit set characters through.

Keyboard reading is extended to allow accented characters and various lines
and blobs to be entered. These are characters 128 to 223 in the character
set refered to in printer manuals as 'pc8'.

On startup the top-bit set characters are redefined to the 'pc8' character
set.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.32
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2020
>_

User avatar
Wheel_nut
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 1:46 pm
Location: West of Scotland
Contact:

Re: Acornsoft View versions

Post by Wheel_nut » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:28 pm

WOW! You had me at "VIEW starts up with format/insert F-I instead of format/overwrite FJ-."

Now only if the Delete Key would work as a DELETE rather than a BACKSPACE key ... i.e Delete the character at the Cursor rather than the preceding character!

I also like the Save as a Txt file which I take to mean that I can edit the content on a PC. The rest is a bit above my pay grade #-o

VuewJ30 works in Sideways RAM. I have discovered that whereas ViewA30 works in an EPROM, it doesn't work for me in Sideways RAM.

I am going to persevere with ViewJ30 in Sideways RAM for now and blow it into EPROM once I have decided on the heirarchy of the ROMS.

Many thanks to you and Nigel for solving this riddle for me.
#1 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 1770 DFS + Dual TEAC Floppy
#2 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Dual Floppy + Speech
#3 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Cumana Single Floppy + PiTubeDirect on KenLowe's Tube Level Shifter

Post Reply

Return to “8-bit acorn software: other”