Elite in ROM??

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Remklep
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Elite in ROM??

Post by Remklep » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:26 pm

Maybe this is a stupid question, but would it be possible to load Elite in a EEPROM so it could be loaded faster then with the 5.25" floppy?
Or maybe move the entire game disc into RAM?

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BeebMaster
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Re: Elite in ROM??

Post by BeebMaster » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:19 am

Elite is a fairly large game by Beeb standards, the Master 128 version is about 58K.

Some years ago I made an EPROM version of sorts - by putting a "disc image" of the M128 version on 4 16K EPROMs inside 2 Master ROM cartridges with a loader which would write the image back to a DFS disc.

I can't remember why I did this exactly, although I do remember sending the cartridges out to people on a few occasions presumably so that they could make their own disc of Elite at a time when there weren't as many methods of downloading/writing/using disc images as there are now.

One or two games have been "converted" to ROM - Zalaga comes to mind - so it may be possible on a 64K EPROM or multiple smaller chips.
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sweh
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Re: Elite in ROM??

Post by sweh » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:36 am

Remklep wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:26 pm
Maybe this is a stupid question, but would it be possible to load Elite in a EEPROM so it could be loaded faster then with the 5.25" floppy?
Or maybe move the entire game disc into RAM?
Back in the day I had a wrapper around ELITE that would load it into a RAMDISK, using my manager ROM and the STL 2M128. So a little slower to start up, but then it ran purely from RAM.

Ah, here we go... *RMDL 1 would create a large (100K) ramdisk with drive ID 1, and then *RAMDRIVE would change the drive number. This worked 'cos of the way the Solidisk DDFS allowed external ROMs to intercept certain OSWORD calls and service the request rather than the DFS ROM itself doing the work.

Very very much unique to my setup. But it worked :-)

Code: Select all

   10 MODE 7
   20 B$=""
   30 PRINT"From RAMdisk?";
   40 REPEAT A$=CHR$(GET AND 223)
   50 T=A$="Y" OR A$="N"
   60 IF NOT(T) SOUND1,-15,200,1
   70 UNTILT
   80 PRINTA$
   90 IF A$="N" THEN *ELITE
  100 INPUT"File :"A$
  110 IF LEFT$(A$,1)=":" THEN A$=LEFT$(A$,3)+"E."+MID$(A$,4) ELSE A$="E."+A$
  130 IF A$<>"E." THEN PRINT"Loading "A$:OSCLI"L. "+A$+" 2000":B$=A$+" 2000+100 0 0|M"
  131 IF LEFT$(B$,1)=":" THEN B$=MID$(B$,4)
  132 IF A$<>"E." B$="*SAVE :1."+B$
  140 OSCLI("K.0 "+B$+"*COPY01D.*|M*COPY01T.*|M*COPY01  ELITE|M*RAMDRIVE 0|MOS.""SPOOL $.!BOOT"":P.""*/ ELITE"":*SPOOL|M*OPT4 3|M*G.ELITE|M")
  150 *FX255 255
  160 *FX200 0
  170 *RMDL D 1
  171 *FX138 0 128
Rgds
Stephen

Remklep
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Re: Elite in ROM??

Post by Remklep » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:27 am

Hi sweh,

Thanks a lot for this.
Of course in order for this to work, I first need the 2M128 Solidisk board and (?) a solidisk ROM, or your modified version of it.

Remklep
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Re: Elite in ROM??

Post by Remklep » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:30 am

BeebMaster wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:19 am
Elite is a fairly large game by Beeb standards, the Master 128 version is about 58K.

Some years ago I made an EPROM version of sorts - by putting a "disc image" of the M128 version on 4 16K EPROMs inside 2 Master ROM cartridges with a loader which would write the image back to a DFS disc.

I can't remember why I did this exactly, although I do remember sending the cartridges out to people on a few occasions presumably so that they could make their own disc of Elite at a time when there weren't as many methods of downloading/writing/using disc images as there are now.

One or two games have been "converted" to ROM - Zalaga comes to mind - so it may be possible on a 64K EPROM or multiple smaller chips.
Hi Beebmaster,

I'm running Elite from a Gotek floppy emulator now, and it feels to me like it's actually slower than the 5.25 floppies were.
ie. Launching and docking in Elite take much longer.
Maybe I should get a Turbo MMC to run elite and some other games from.

cmorley
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Re: Elite in ROM??

Post by cmorley » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:33 am

I think the sideways RAM version of Elite for the Model B loads once then doesn't access the disc again. Could be wrong.

Not quite what you are asking but quicker than the original disc version.

Remklep
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Re: Elite in ROM??

Post by Remklep » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:26 pm

cmorley wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:33 am
I think the sideways RAM version of Elite for the Model B loads once then doesn't access the disc again. Could be wrong.

Not quite what you are asking but quicker than the original disc version.
I've been searching the interwebs for a B+ 64kb Sideways Ram/Rom Module but have only found some for the Model B, not B+.
In the meantime, I ordered a MMC drive.

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DutchAcorn
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Re: Elite in ROM??

Post by DutchAcorn » Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:03 am

Remklep wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:26 pm
cmorley wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:33 am
I think the sideways RAM version of Elite for the Model B loads once then doesn't access the disc again. Could be wrong.

Not quite what you are asking but quicker than the original disc version.
I've been searching the interwebs for a B+ 64kb Sideways Ram/Rom Module but have only found some for the Model B, not B+.
In the meantime, I ordered a MMC drive.
The B+ can be expanded with sideways ram relatively easily. See here.
Paul

Image

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rmbrowngr
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Re: Elite in ROM??

Post by rmbrowngr » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:23 am

DutchAcorn wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:03 am
Remklep wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:26 pm
cmorley wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:33 am
I think the sideways RAM version of Elite for the Model B loads once then doesn't access the disc again. Could be wrong.

Not quite what you are asking but quicker than the original disc version.
I've been searching the interwebs for a B+ 64kb Sideways Ram/Rom Module but have only found some for the Model B, not B+.
In the meantime, I ordered a MMC drive.
The B+ can be expanded with sideways ram relatively easily. See here.
I did this upgrade and can report the sideways RAM version of Elite works just fine. Better than my very rusty Elite skills! Docking is such a pain without a docking computer.

One of the Daves of this forum was very helpful in supplying a kit for me to install for this.
Richard B
Acorn Electrons issue 4 and issue 6 with Master RAM Board, Acorn Plus 1, AP6, AP5, Pegasus 400, BeebSCSI, Gotek, Raspberry Pi 2nd Processor, GoSDC MBE with Elk2GoSDC and Cart2GoSDC.
BBC B+ 64K (128K upgraded) with Duel OS

Remklep
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Re: Elite in ROM??

Post by Remklep » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:51 pm

rmbrowngr wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:23 am
DutchAcorn wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:03 am
Remklep wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:26 pm


I've been searching the interwebs for a B+ 64kb Sideways Ram/Rom Module but have only found some for the Model B, not B+.
In the meantime, I ordered a MMC drive.
The B+ can be expanded with sideways ram relatively easily. See here.
I did this upgrade and can report the sideways RAM version of Elite works just fine. Better than my very rusty Elite skills! Docking is such a pain without a docking computer.

One of the Daves of this forum was very helpful in supplying a kit for me to install for this.
I have 3 62256 ICs incoming, I'll do the MOD as described in the article too.

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flynnjs
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Re: Elite in ROM??

Post by flynnjs » Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:14 pm

Remklep wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:27 am
Of course in order for this to work, I first need the 2M128 Solidisk board and (?) a solidisk ROM, or your modified version of it.
I have reverse engineered the 2M128 and could produce some working units
if anyone would like one.

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sweh
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Re: Elite in ROM??

Post by sweh » Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:01 pm

Remklep wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:27 am
Hi sweh,

Thanks a lot for this.
Of course in order for this to work, I first need the 2M128 Solidisk board and (?) a solidisk ROM, or your modified version of it.
The key is the Solidisk DDFS. In theory the Ramdisk version could be ported to other RAM boards, but it's the DDFS that calls out to the ramdisk routines.
Rgds
Stephen

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flynnjs
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Re: Elite in ROM??

Post by flynnjs » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:52 am

Shall I do some DFDC (rev2) boards too? :D

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