A7000+ desktop boot issues

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KarateEd
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A7000+ desktop boot issues

Post by KarateEd » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:14 pm

Hi Folks,

Bringing another issue on an A7000+ desktop machine.

When I boot the machine up, it seems to boot normally to desktop except for a couple things.

The first is the hour glass never goes away and the mouse, though it moves around, doesn't allow any clicks on any buttons.
The second is the hard drive light never goes off.
The third is that, when I took a video of it booting, it showed a percentage of something loading, no idea what but it got to 51% (a later snapshot shows it going to 66%) before going to the desktop that wouldn't react to the mouse or keyboard other than rebooting.

I can get the desktop to come up responsively if I hit break early enough in the load sequence but then it doesn't have proper system resources to run things properly. Some standalone, simple programs run but really, it's not working as it should.

Does anyone have any idea where I should start looking on this issue? It would be an understatement to say that I'm 'lost'.

Thanks for any help. I will try to get a short, good video of it booting up so people can see what it's doing. The one I have right now if very out of focus for the initial booting part.

Link to the video..... https://youtu.be/4Cn6nbt1lX0
Last edited by KarateEd on Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Ed...... :-)

3 working Beebs, 1 RetroClinic Master, 1 normal Master, 1 A3010, 1 Pi2 RISC OS, 2 broken Beeb Motherboards, 1 Omnibus A7000+ server, 1 A7000+ Desktop, 1 PET, 1 C64, 1 C128, 1 Amiga 500 and 1 Roamer.

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Re: A7000+ desktop boot issues

Post by KarateEd » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:57 pm

These pictures show what happens when I press <BRK> early enough in the boot sequence.
1-Boot Sequence.png
This shows what is attempting to run at boot
2-After pressing BRK Early enough.png
Showing the message that pops up after successfully pressing <BRK>
3-Normal look after pressing ESC.png
Desktop appears normal as if everything was working......but......
4-After left click on HD.png
Obviously there are no resources for a 'normal' resume, however if I press <ESC> here then......
5-Appears norma.png
we get what appears to be a normal HD and programs.....
However, most programs that I run from the HD give me an error complaining about no resources, which makes sense. A few simple things do run but then they need very little in the way of resources.
Ed...... :-)

3 working Beebs, 1 RetroClinic Master, 1 normal Master, 1 A3010, 1 Pi2 RISC OS, 2 broken Beeb Motherboards, 1 Omnibus A7000+ server, 1 A7000+ Desktop, 1 PET, 1 C64, 1 C128, 1 Amiga 500 and 1 Roamer.

sirbod
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Re: A7000+ desktop boot issues

Post by sirbod » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:58 am

If you leave it for 30 mins, do you get an error?

It's either a disc timeout, or something is loading post desktop that's getting stuck. Look at post desktop tasks loading under !Boot.Choices.Boot

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Re: A7000+ desktop boot issues

Post by KarateEd » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:53 am

sirbod wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:58 am
If you leave it for 30 mins, do you get an error?

It's either a disc timeout, or something is loading post desktop that's getting stuck. Look at post desktop tasks loading under !Boot.Choices.Boot
I've left it on for a couple hours to see if anything happens and it just hangs forever it seems on the hour glass.

I'll check the area you're suggesting but it may be a bit hard for me to understand what is going on in there.....but.... I will try. I want to learn this RISC stuff to some competency.
Ed...... :-)

3 working Beebs, 1 RetroClinic Master, 1 normal Master, 1 A3010, 1 Pi2 RISC OS, 2 broken Beeb Motherboards, 1 Omnibus A7000+ server, 1 A7000+ Desktop, 1 PET, 1 C64, 1 C128, 1 Amiga 500 and 1 Roamer.

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Re: A7000+ desktop boot issues

Post by KarateEd » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:07 pm

Ok, here's what I see when I go into those folders.....
No Post Desktop.png
I don't see a 'Post Desktop' file or folder.........

Am I missing something?
Ed...... :-)

3 working Beebs, 1 RetroClinic Master, 1 normal Master, 1 A3010, 1 Pi2 RISC OS, 2 broken Beeb Motherboards, 1 Omnibus A7000+ server, 1 A7000+ Desktop, 1 PET, 1 C64, 1 C128, 1 Amiga 500 and 1 Roamer.

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Re: A7000+ desktop boot issues

Post by KarateEd » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:41 pm

Ok, can anyone tell me if there should be something else in these folders to do what sirbod suggested?

Should I be opening one of these folders/files to check contents?

I really am unsure of this but would be really nice to have some guidance on it.

Thanks very much for any help that can be given.
Ed...... :-)

3 working Beebs, 1 RetroClinic Master, 1 normal Master, 1 A3010, 1 Pi2 RISC OS, 2 broken Beeb Motherboards, 1 Omnibus A7000+ server, 1 A7000+ Desktop, 1 PET, 1 C64, 1 C128, 1 Amiga 500 and 1 Roamer.

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Re: A7000+ desktop boot issues

Post by sirbod » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:43 pm

Everything in the Tasks folder is run post desktop, so move everything in there to another folder outside of Tasks and see if you then get a working machine. Assuming you do, you can move things back until it breaks.

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Re: A7000+ desktop boot issues

Post by KarateEd » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:52 am

Ok, found one source of the problem.

The !Boot file in Tasks had a whole bunch of [00]s tacked on to the end of it. I don't think those should be there so I removed them. Now it seems to boot up fairly normally but with the error in the screen shot attached.

I believe that has to do with the CDROM in the unit but don't really know how to fix it and I will be using the CDROM to transfer files to it, it's quick and easy.....if it's working.
CDFS Error.png
Edit: I figured how to do it, I added the CDROM in the configure file by selecting drives and adding one CDROM. This is for any newbies to RISC like I am.

I have a CD to check the drive works and it does.
Last edited by KarateEd on Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
Ed...... :-)

3 working Beebs, 1 RetroClinic Master, 1 normal Master, 1 A3010, 1 Pi2 RISC OS, 2 broken Beeb Motherboards, 1 Omnibus A7000+ server, 1 A7000+ Desktop, 1 PET, 1 C64, 1 C128, 1 Amiga 500 and 1 Roamer.

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Re: A7000+ desktop boot issues

Post by KarateEd » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:50 pm

and.....here it is booted up with CD in it.
Fixed__Setup.png
Thanks Sirbod for your help. It seems like a simple thing but when you don't really know where to look, it can make a huge difference.
Last edited by KarateEd on Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ed...... :-)

3 working Beebs, 1 RetroClinic Master, 1 normal Master, 1 A3010, 1 Pi2 RISC OS, 2 broken Beeb Motherboards, 1 Omnibus A7000+ server, 1 A7000+ Desktop, 1 PET, 1 C64, 1 C128, 1 Amiga 500 and 1 Roamer.

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Re: A7000+ desktop boot issues

Post by KarateEd » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:44 pm

I feel like my !Boot was flakey as the machine has had some weird problems.

I've decided to use uniboot and we'll see how that goes.
Ed...... :-)

3 working Beebs, 1 RetroClinic Master, 1 normal Master, 1 A3010, 1 Pi2 RISC OS, 2 broken Beeb Motherboards, 1 Omnibus A7000+ server, 1 A7000+ Desktop, 1 PET, 1 C64, 1 C128, 1 Amiga 500 and 1 Roamer.

acorndave
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Re: A7000+ desktop boot issues

Post by acorndave » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:55 pm

Just a thought your boot might be ok now. Just be aware if you remove your !Boot and replace it with Uniboot, it will be like having a freshly built machine and consequently any app / utility etc that added things to the boot in the past will then potentially stop working or error in some way. So you may have to copy bits back in.

For the record it is quite possible to 'Menu' button over, possibly at shutdown time and accidentally select Desktop - Save. This is what creates that !Boot file in tasks. Saving a desktop boot file can be beneficial, but for the most part they are to be avoided, as you can find they cause booting issues.

I think possibly the 000s are a bodge to try and make that file run in different order (perhaps earlier in the boot sequence). I could have remembered wrongly. I personally would have just deleted that one file and then dealt with whatever errors were thrown up if any. Or moved it temporarily out of the boot sequence, if you don't want to delete it. You can view the file by Shift-double/clicking it. It will open in edit by default. You could then try to see what it is doing. But be aware if it has just been saved as the desktop state without further tweaking it could be full of all sorts of stuff.

Just thought I'd mention it, as potentially you could set up a nice clean boot, but then end up with more problems

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Re: A7000+ desktop boot issues

Post by KarateEd » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:47 pm

acorndave wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:55 pm
Just a thought your boot might be ok now. Just be aware if you remove your !Boot and replace it with Uniboot, it will be like having a freshly built machine and consequently any app / utility etc that added things to the boot in the past will then potentially stop working or error in some way. So you may have to copy bits back in.

For the record it is quite possible to 'Menu' button over, possibly at shutdown time and accidentally select Desktop - Save. This is what creates that !Boot file in tasks. Saving a desktop boot file can be beneficial, but for the most part they are to be avoided, as you can find they cause booting issues.

I think possibly the 000s are a bodge to try and make that file run in different order (perhaps earlier in the boot sequence). I could have remembered wrongly. I personally would have just deleted that one file and then dealt with whatever errors were thrown up if any. Or moved it temporarily out of the boot sequence, if you don't want to delete it. You can view the file by Shift-double/clicking it. It will open in edit by default. You could then try to see what it is doing. But be aware if it has just been saved as the desktop state without further tweaking it could be full of all sorts of stuff.

Just thought I'd mention it, as potentially you could set up a nice clean boot, but then end up with more problems
Excellent post as you've appeared to mention exactly the things that have happened. I put back my old !Boot file minus the 0000s. I've seen that on Windows machines before and am reasonably certain that the machine was shut off without files closing to create that situation.

What I have done is put in some folders and files where necessary.

What actually happened with both uniboot and 3.7boot was the hard drive light wouldn't go out. When I used my old !Boot file it would signifying that it's mostly correct and dealing with Apps and such, maybe even hardware differences. After putting the files and directories into my !Boot, I've definitely got a better working file as everything seems to 'match up' with my system.

It's certainly been a fun learning experience and I've got this file backed up on the hard drive in a different folder. What I'm trying to figure out now is how to create a backup Image of my hard drive. Once I do that then I can really play around with stuff, knowing I can restore as and when needed.
Last edited by KarateEd on Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ed...... :-)

3 working Beebs, 1 RetroClinic Master, 1 normal Master, 1 A3010, 1 Pi2 RISC OS, 2 broken Beeb Motherboards, 1 Omnibus A7000+ server, 1 A7000+ Desktop, 1 PET, 1 C64, 1 C128, 1 Amiga 500 and 1 Roamer.

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