How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

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eisdielenbiker
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Re: How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

Post by eisdielenbiker » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:21 am

I see. Thanks a lot ! Was suspecting sth. like this. Time to get my disfunct A420 up finally...

In the APD Library I have found 2 very handy copier programs for my A7000:

!TurboCopy and !DeepCopy2

Another promising one is

!SectCopy a "Disc image copier (800K and 640K only) which will skip
any defective sectors. Main use is to let you recover as
much data as possible from a damaged disc. Files will
contain garbage where the defective sectors were but for
some types of file (eg. text) this could be less serious
than losing all the data"

That will most probably give some safety for already buggy original discs before ruining them finally upon playing around.
Last edited by eisdielenbiker on Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
A3010 4MB , A7000, A420

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Re: How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

Post by eisdielenbiker » Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:18 pm

!SectCopy is a good one, works very satisfying with defective media indeed. It has rescued some otherwise not readable disks for me to an outmost extent. !SectCopy one which benefits from 'a lot of memory'. I.e. you set Next Memory block Size in !Configure or !Boot a bit more than 800K thus enabling it to buffer the program itself plus one whole disk in memory. Not every copier does this. E.g. 'The Archive Disk Copier' (that !DiskCopy with a red disk icon sprite) only allocates an annoying 400k of buffer. Is there any idea how to change this?
Another two more general questions concerning copiers:

What is the use of my answer to options like 'Rubbish relevant destination tracks (Y/N)?' ?

Is there any copier who just formats a disk in the appropriat format on the fly ?

Real rubbish is version 0.926 of !TurboCopy on RiscOS3.6 and A7000. It seemde gernarally working ok but has left me with unreported verifying errors.
Althoug development wise it seemed on a good track supporting integrated formating capabilities. Is ther a newer version available ?

BTW another good one is !DeepCopy2 although it is not that suited for rescueing already damaged disks.

!AutoCopy is the only one that formats output disks in the necessary format. It's a pitty that it does not setup a complete disk buffer. However it also offer this 'Rubbish' option I do not understand.

!ProCopy is very suitable for doing batches like preformatting multiple disk in a row.
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Re: How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

Post by sirbod » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:46 pm

Perhaps you'd like to post copies of all those copiers. I don't think I've heard of any of them before.

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Re: How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

Post by eisdielenbiker » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:55 pm

Really ? Here you are : a few native SparkFS archives appending.
Don't mind but notify me if sth. is wrong with them. I had to add a .zip extension to upload here.
I am not a longtime Acorn user. Just started watching those computers in 1993 and only bought a few last year.
Attachments
turbocop.zip
(28.19 KiB) Downloaded 21 times
deepcopy.zip
(20.99 KiB) Downloaded 20 times
autocopy.zip
(8.44 KiB) Downloaded 21 times
sectcopy.zip
(7.43 KiB) Downloaded 19 times
diskcopi.zip
(4.75 KiB) Downloaded 20 times
A3010 4MB , A7000, A420

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Omniflop under Windows NT @ 486 33 MHz

Post by eisdielenbiker » Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:59 am

Yesterday I tried to backup some ADF images to a real floppy on my only old computer with real disk drives.
I also tried to do an image of my Saloon Cars 1 disk which is copy protected. Neither of both worked as
I had to use OmniDisk version 2.01n under DOS6.22 and I have got some eventual recoverable error messages like 'PC is too slow'.
My computer only runs Win95 which is not supported by OmniFlop. The ADFS disk showed 'bad directory' on the
A7000 in the end and were useless.

FAQ and manual are unclear about Windows NT which I could install on my 486.

Does anybody know if it is worth the effort of setting up WinNT to try a newer OmniFLop on some Acorn disks ?
Maybe it also runs faster than OmniDisk under DOS6.22 for being a much newer and supported release and the OS
providing more CPU power in real mode or what that WIN NT is running in. I am a DOS/WIN noob anyhow.
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Re: How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

Post by acorndave » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:09 pm

Windows NT may work with OmniDisk, as it is from approximately the same era as Windows 95.

However if you want to use the more uptodate OmniFlop, you will need a minimum of Windows 2000. Windows 2000 needs at least a Pentium Processor, so will not work on a 486.

If you have an A7000 you could try 'unpacking' the images on there with one or other of the utilities available for RISC OS

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Re: Omniflop under Windows NT @ 486 33 MHz

Post by hubersn » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:16 pm

You could try ArcDisc, which should run on Windows 95.

http://acorn.revivalteam.de/?site=DiscImaging

On the same page: ADFimager for RISC OS usage.

No personal experiences, I use OmniFlop on an old XP laptop for such things. I don't think any of those support copy protections of any sort.

Have fun
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Re: How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

Post by sirbod » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:11 am

Would it be useful if I added the ability to write ADF images to floppy in ADFFS?

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Re: How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

Post by flaxcottage » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:21 am

Definitely, please. [-o<
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Re: How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

Post by eisdielenbiker » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:35 am

Windows NT is definitely not suitable to run OmniFlop, older or newer.
It installs and starts but has been reporting driver issues. I tried all available versions of OmniFlop.
However NT is said to be offensive to hardware tricks like the ones OmniFlop is doing. Sorry.
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Re: How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

Post by hubersn » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:42 pm

eisdielenbiker wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:35 am
Windows NT is definitely not suitable to run OmniFlop, older or newer.
It installs and starts but has been reporting driver issues. I tried all available versions of OmniFlop.
Did you properly install the floppy disk drive driver as well as the floppy disk controller driver, or only the former? What does Windows say after installing the driver? Can you still read/write FAT floppy disks?

But maybe OmniFlop really only runs on Windows 2000 and above, as specified.
However NT is said to be offensive to hardware tricks like the ones OmniFlop is doing. Sorry.
OmniFlop provides true WDM drivers, nothing "offensive" here.

Have fun
hubersn

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Re: How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

Post by eisdielenbiker » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:34 pm

I do not really recall what that FDC driver had been reporting. Sth. like 'system entry point 'xyz' invalid'. Yes, I did both drivers from different omniflop versions subsequently following ther evolution of software releases.
I will use a Kryoflux unit now that I got hold of.
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Re: How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

Post by ARandomDave » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:12 pm

Evening all. I have a similar challenge with a particular piece of software. After buying the media, I've been able to image the disks using a FluxEngine . FluxEngine detects MFM and reads 5120 bytes/track over 80 tracks from the disks. All the disks were read successfully, except the "key disk" which reported a CRC for sector 4 track 0.0. (It read this and stores it in the stream-file as it was read, rather than attempting to correct).

I've been able to install data from all disks, however launching the software in RPCEmu complains the "key disk" is not present (it is). Unfortunately I don't have access to real hardware to to determine if the source disks work as expected.

My (uneducated) conclusion is that RPCEmu is probably able to read data from the disk image that real hardware would be unable to (due to the CRC mismatch)? If that sounds likely, were I to upload the stream file for the key disk would someone mind writing it to a floppy and capturing with ADFFS? (Unless ADFFS can create an image from a stream file directly?) Would that be a potential solution?

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Re: How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

Post by sirbod » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:27 am

ARandomDave wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:12 pm
I've been able to install data from all disks, however launching the software in RPCEmu complains the "key disk" is not present (it is).
I don't believe RPCEmu supports any formats that will retain disc protection, so you've lost the "key disk" bit.
ARandomDave wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:12 pm
were I to upload the stream file for the key disk would someone mind writing it to a floppy and capturing with ADFFS?
What is the stream file? Flux, FM/MFM or RAW? Flux is near impossible to write back without introducing errors and RAW will probably be missing the disc protection.
ARandomDave wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:12 pm
Unless ADFFS can create an image from a stream file directly?
ADFFS can read FM, MFM provided they're in an APD file, it doesn't directly support any form of Flux stream.

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Re: How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

Post by ARandomDave » Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:41 am

fluxengine, used to produce the stream files, is a bit like Kryoflux. It produces a file containing timings between magnetic pulses as read from the disk. So in this case, the stream file is equivalent to a *.raw file from KryoFlux. Fluxengine is advantageous here as it has a lower cost point compared to KryoFlux.

fluxengine can, optionally, output an adf file for use with RPCEmu - But doing so will obviously lose the additional data that might be valuable when it comes to copy protection (read timings, CRC errors etc).

My reading of ADFFS suggests that the APD file format contains some of this extra information, so if I can convert my fluxengine output to APD I stand a better chance of running the software?

One solution to my problem could be to convert my fluxengine stream file to KryoFlux *.raw, then use kryo2apd. Alas, there's no direct means of converting between the two formats (fluxengine can read Kryoflux files, but not write them). fluxengine can output in SupercardPro format (.scp), however when converting this to *.raw (using HxCFloppyEmulator), information seems to get lost resulting in kryo2apd crashing (Consumes >2GB heap then crashes out).

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Re: How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

Post by ARandomDave » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:40 pm

Image

Hurray! - Still unable to get a working APD file, but managed to circumvent the issue another way. I'll now stop pestering you all (until I find the other Sherston title i'm hunting for!)

Thanks all.

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Re: How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

Post by flaxcottage » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:32 pm

OK, I'll bite. How did you do it?
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Re: How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

Post by ARandomDave » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:37 pm

flaxcottage wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:32 pm
OK, I'll bite. How did you do it?
I made some tweaks to !RunImage to bypass the module used to perform the license check.

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Re: How to clone a 'master' disc on Archimedes

Post by flaxcottage » Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:19 am

Nice. =D>
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