What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Arc/RPCs, peripherals, RISCOS operating system & ARM kit eg GP2x, BeagleBoard
Post Reply
User avatar
keropi
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:35 pm
Location: Greece
Contact:

What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by keropi » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:01 pm

Hello!

as per topic I am trying to figure out what I need to connect my 4.39 riscpc to my windows workgroup so I can share files easily.
RiscPC is already configured to access the internet - all I can do atm is ping :lol:
What is the 2019 way to do this?

thanks in advance for any info/help!

edit:

also what update do I need to get this working? I purchased and installed the softload 4.39 riscos version... :?

Image
Last edited by keropi on Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
paulv
Posts: 3853
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Location: Leicestershire
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by paulv » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:35 am

That doesn't look like it's booting from the hard drive using the !Boot folder as that unplugs the built in toolbox related modules and soft loads the later modules which you need.

If you are booting from a boot folder then you'll need to do something more. When I upgraded from 4.02 (4.37) to 4.39, I had to merge the system and boot folders from the 4.39 CD into my current boot folder structure to get the correct versions.

Paul

User avatar
keropi
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:35 pm
Location: Greece
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by keropi » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:08 am

Hey Paul

I don't see what you say being mentioned on the readme that came with the softload version - there is no CD on this one just a zip file with the upgrade
I am attaching the installation readme, maybe I miss something? I did chose to merge the 2 boots - it's all done automatically
Is there a way to check these module's versions?

Code: Select all

Soft Loaded RISC OS 4.39 Upgrade
================================

This will upgrade your current version of RISC OS 4.0x to 4.39. You MUST
already have RISC OS 4.0x in ROM. If you already have a version of
'Select' installed then you need to revert to the standard RISC OS 4
!Boot before running the installer. If you are using the CD version of
this upgrade then a copy of the standard RISC OS 4 !Boot is included, if
not you will need to download this from the RISOS website and install it
before proceeding further. Alternatively see the section 'Installing to a
blank drive' near the end of this file.

For Mico, Omega, RiscStation or VirtualRPC-SE see the notes specific to
these machines later in this file. Note that this softloaded version of
RISC OS 4.39 has not been extensively tested on any of these machines
and although we believe it will install and operate without problems you
are advised to take precautions to ensure that you can restore your
original OS if you do experience difficulties. We are only able to offer
limited support with this upgrade on these models.

If you are using a Viewfinder card you should also read the applicable
note.


Brief Copyright notice
----------------------
RISC OS 4 was developed by RISCOS Ltd and is Copyright 3QD Developments
Ltd. Some items in this package are Copyright APDL or Alligata Media.

This Upgrade is supplied with a Single User Licence. It must not be
installed on more than one computer without the express permission of
3QD Developments Ltd.


IMPORTANT - Before Installation             <<<<<----Read This First
-------------------------------
You will need to de-archive the contents of this zip file before running
the !439instal application or the installation will fail. Drag !439Instal 
out of this zip file and drop it into a harddisc window.


Initial installation
--------------------
Double-click on the !439Instal application to run it. A window will open
in the centre of the screen and you should follow the instructions on
this and the following windows. After the new !Boot and ROM have been
installed you will be asked if you want to copy data from your old !Boot
such as Choices, !System, Fonts, Hardware configuration, Pinboard
textures and settings, and Monitor Definitions. Unless you have a good
reason for not doing so you are advised to copy all of these.

Once this has been done the main part of the installation is complete.
However RISC OS 4.39 has improved versions of many of the standard RISC
OS applications, in particular !Draw, !Paint, !ChangeFSI, !SciCalc and
!Squash. The next three windows allow you to install these plus various
other useful applications and utilities.


Installing the new Applications and Documentation
-------------------------------------------------
If you do not wish to install these or any of the following items at
this time you can skip them and re-run the !439Instal program at a later
date. It will detect that you are running RISC OS 4.39 and bypass the
main installation section and go straight to the first of the
supplementary windows.

Once the installation is complete you should shut down your computer and
either switch it off and then on again after a few seconds or, on a
RiscPC or A7000 press the Reset button on the rear of the machine.

The first time your computer starts up running RISC OS 4,39 you may see
an error message warning you that it was not properly shut down. Don't
worry about this, just click on the 'OK' button to clear it. This can
happen because RISC OS 4.39 sets a flag when it is properly shut down
and this may be in the wrong state if the machine was shut down running
an earlier OS.


Items not copied
----------------
Although most of your files and settings are copied to the new !Boot
this is deliberately not done for some items. In particular any
applications or other files in the !Boot.Choices.PreDesk and
!Boot.Choices.Tasks folders. This was a common method of running program
at startup with earlier OS versions but from RISC OS 4 onward there is a
much better method of doing this.

The other reason for not copying this material is that there is the
possibility that some very old program or OS patches which worked with
RISC OS 4.02 might not work with RISC OS 4.39. We want to ensure that
your computer will start up properly with the new OS installed and this
minimises the likelihood that you will have problems.

During the RISC OS 4.39 installation process a folder named '0ldBoot'
will have been created. Inside this folder you will find your old !Boot.
Any special items you had placed in the Tasks or PreDesk folders in your
original !Boot will still be there.


Reverting to your original operating system
-------------------------------------------
You can revert to your old OS temporarily by holding down the 'Z' key
when you switch your computer on. This will prevent the RISC OS 4.39 ROM
from installing. The computer should start up normally but some of your
settings, e.g. Filer settings and Backdrop, may not be set properly as
the methods for doing this are different with RISC OS 4.49. However, the
computer should operate normally so this method can be used if you have
some very old program that will not work under RISC OS 4.39.

DO NOT change any configuration settings while in this mode. The results
might be unpredictable.

To revert for a longer period create a temporary folder on your hard
drive. You could call it something like '439Boot'. Move !Boot into this
folder by holding down the Shift key and dragging !Boot into it. Now
move the original !Boot from the '0ldBoot' folder into the root
directory of the hard disc.

Now either press Reset or switch your computer off and on again to
re-boot and you will have reverted to your original operating system
with the same settings it had when you installed RISC OS 4.39.

If you want to return to RISC OS 4.39 you need simply reverse this
process. Move !Boot back into the 0ldBoot folder and move the RISC OS
4.39 !Boot from the 439Boot (or whatever you called it) folder back into
the root directory of your hard drive. Once again either press Reset or
switch your computer off and on again to re-boot and you will be back
with RISC OS 4.39 again.

Of course you can repeat this process as often as you like.


Use on VirtualRPC-SE/SA
-----------------------
There may be some problems with certain early versions of VirtualRPC-SE
so before you attempt to install this version of RISC OS 4.39 on
VirtualRPC-SE you are strongly advised to first apply any applicable
upgrades from the Virtual Acorn web site.

If you are booting from an ADFS hard disc image rather than HostFS you
must ensure that you have sufficient free space on the drive image for
the RISC OS 4.39 upgrade. If you don't have at least 20 MB free then you
will find the instructions for creating a larger ADFS drive at

 http://www.virtualacorn.co.uk/support/articles/101/index.htm

After installing RISC OS 4.39 you should quit VirtualRPC and then
re-start it. You may need to do this twice to avoid any error messages.

There is one important disadvantage when using this softloaded version
of RISC OS 4.39. Later versions of VirtualRPC have an emulated 8 MB of
Video RAM (VRAM) which allows much higher screen resolution with greater
colour depth than on a real RiscPC. With the softloaded RISC OS 4.39 you
will revert to having only 2 MB of VRAM and this will restrict the
screen resolution and colour depth available.

If you do want to use RISC OS 4.39 with VirtualRPC a much better
solution is to obtain the 'Adjust' upgrade from Virtual Acorn as this
does allow the use of the full 8 MB VRAM.


Use on RiscStation 7500
-----------------------
As far as we are aware there are no problems with these machines.


MicroDigital Omega
------------------
We have carried out limited tests on these machines and if you have one
of the later models with a fully functional floppy drive you should not
have any problems. However owing to the small number of this model in
use and the variations between them we can offer very little support.


MicroDigital Mico
-----------------
The hard drive icons on the icon bar may be wrongly positioned. 
When the Shutdown option is chosen from the Task menu the Mico will
offer the choice to Restart or Shutdown but if 'Restart' is chosen the
machine will now power down rather than re-booting. 


Viewfinder Notes
----------------
It has been reported that certain Viewfinder cards fail to boot to a
visible display with RISC OS 4.39. This usually seems to occur if the
configured Monitortype and Wimpmode settings are set to 'Auto'.

If you fail to get any screen output after installing and running RISC
OS 4.39 then Boot up into your 'base' OS by switching on with the Shift
key held down and then press F12 to get to the command line and type -

configure monitortype 4 <RETURN>
configure wimpmode 32 <RETURN>

and then restart your computer.

Further details on Viewfinder cards can be found on the Windfall
Engineering website. http://www.windfall.nl        


Installing to a blank hard drive
--------------------------------
It is possible to install this soft loaded version of RISC OS 4.39 to a
blank hard drive. You may wish to do this if you are starting out with a
new drive for some reason e.g. your original drive failed.

To do this hold down the ALT-CTRL-Z keys when you double click on the
!439Instal program to run it. If you do this then the program will open
a window from which you can drag the !Boot to the drive of your choice.
This would normally be your 'boot' drive. Once you have done this the
installation will proceed as normal except that no backup will be taken
of your old !Boot and none of your choices and resources will be copied.


Upgrading from a version of 'Select'
------------------------------------
You can use the previously described method to install the upgrade if
you are running an earlier version of 'Select', e.g. RISC OS 4.29, and
don't want to revert to a basic RISC OS 4. 

BEFORE you do anything create a folder for your old boot (something like
'OldBoot') and move your existing !Boot there by dragging it to this
folder with the SHIFT key held. Now proceed as described above and drag
the icon to the root directory of you Boot drive. This will install the
new RISC OS 439 !Boot leaving your old !Boot intact so you can copy any
resources and choices from it.


Software Licence
----------------
3QD Developments Ltd grants to each person who purchases this disc a
personal non-transferable non-exclusive limited licence to the purchaser
to use the software solely for their own purposes on an ARM processor
powered computer running the RISC OS 4.0x Operating System from a
physical ROM, or on any authorised ARM processor emulator program with a
licensed RISC OS 4 ROM image.

Any person using or accessing this software will be deemed to have read
and accepted the End User Licence Agreement that is displayed by the
!Install program as part of the installation process.

Disclaimer
----------
This software is provided 'as is'. 3QD Developments Ltd makes no
warranty, express or implied, of the merchantability of this software or
its fitness for any particular purpose. In no circumstances shall RISCOS
Ltd be liable for any damage, loss of profits, or any indirect or
consequential loss arising out of the use of this software or inability
to use this software, even if 3QD Developments Ltd has been advised of
the possibility of such loss.

This version of RISC OS 4.39 is Copyright c 3QD Developments Ltd. 2015

3QD Developments Ltd.
29 Alma Road
Newhall
Derbyshire
DE11 0SD

www.riscos.com

User avatar
paulv
Posts: 3853
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Location: Leicestershire
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by paulv » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:15 am

Using

Code: Select all

*help toolbox
should return the version of toolbox that you have loaded. Mine is 1.87 from 21 Feb 2007.

On my system, this module is located in !Boot.Resources.!System.350.Modules.Toolbox

I've attached a little tool that once loaded, you can drag any module to it and it'll give you all the info about it including the version number for that particular file.

Paul
Attachments
ModInfo.zip
(8.7 KiB) Downloaded 5 times

User avatar
keropi
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:35 pm
Location: Greece
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by keropi » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:42 pm

hmmm *help toolbox reports for me 1.78 (13 Arp 2004)
I only have the toolbox module inside the !System.310.Modules directory - on 3.50 nothing of that sort

Image

How do I fix this? This was supposed to be an automated process :?


User avatar
paulv
Posts: 3853
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Location: Leicestershire
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by paulv » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:29 pm

After a lot of faffing, we got it working. I ended up zipping up my toolbox folder and sending it over.

Whilst the ROOL toolbox build is 11 years younger the version numbers are lower so I have a toolbox module 1.87 from 2007 and ROOL's latest build is 1.58 from 2018.

There's other issues to sort with this machine still but the toolbox issue was a bit of a pain. The development split in RISC OS was not only politically and commercially detrimental but it also introduced much confusion as to what modules and software runs on which version of the OS.

Sigh

Paul

User avatar
keropi
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:35 pm
Location: Greece
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by keropi » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:35 pm

yes - thanks to Paul's kindness and patience this issue was resolved.
But it make me wonder, those people that sell the "4.39 softload package" do they actually test anything? Because not only !DHCPInfo does not work the installer complains about calculator app not matching , produces an error and then goes on and installs it. :?
I am now truing to install netsurf but getting sharedclibrary errors (needs to be 5.43+) and it makes me wonder for what machines netsurf 3.8 is actually made for - their statement that it needs 4.02+ is just wrong ...

User avatar
paulv
Posts: 3853
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Location: Leicestershire
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by paulv » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:41 pm

There's a definite fix for Netsurf. What's the exact network card you have?

Paul

User avatar
keropi
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:35 pm
Location: Greece
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by keropi » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:56 pm

I have the I-cubed EtherLAN600 nic atm
is there anything that doesn't require a fix? :lol:

I even tried to connect with the !FTP application to my DOS mTCP ftpserver - naturally it cannot connect correctly but also trying to save the server info produces an error that the hotlists file does not exist.

It's not like I have done something to system, a freshly initialized hdd , install the 4.02 !boot so the 4.39 softload update can work and that's it. No messing no files tampering but still the stock os apps seem to not work or have missing files :?
I have to be honest, this is not that encouraging.... #-o

User avatar
paulv
Posts: 3853
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Location: Leicestershire
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by paulv » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:03 pm

keropi wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:56 pm
I have the I-cubed EtherLAN600 nic atm
Perfect, you'll need to update its flash ROM from ROOL. This one does work as I've done it to mine. The ROM image includes a later version of SharedCLibrary which should take precedence at boot.

Download the NIC drivers from here:

https://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/riscpc

Unzip the archive, navigate to the ROM_Install -> EtherH folder and run !EthLanPrg. That'll update your NIC to the latest drivers and add the latest SharedCLibrary for you.

See how you get on after that.

Paul

User avatar
keropi
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:35 pm
Location: Greece
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by keropi » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:37 pm

well the NIC died #-o
I ran the updater and it froze the system here:

Image

the card is no longer detected after a reboot...


EDIT

scratch that! I removed the network cable and after 5mins the card was being detected again , this time the flash progress and verify completed and I was asked to reboot.
WEIRD!!!
Last edited by keropi on Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
paulv
Posts: 3853
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Location: Leicestershire
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by paulv » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:43 pm

ummm, how long did you wait?

RISC OS is co-operative multi-tasking not pre-emptive so it can appear to hang when really busy... :-(

Not sure what to do now. If anyone else has any ideas about unbricking one of these cards, now would be a good time to jump in!


Good news after all :-)

Paul
Last edited by paulv on Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cmorley
Posts: 853
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:11 pm
Location: Oxford
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by cmorley » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:47 pm

I looked up the EtherLan 600 on Google. If no one knows how to reflash the chip in situ, then it wouldn't be hard to take the memory chip off & reprogram/replace it and solder it back.

User avatar
keropi
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:35 pm
Location: Greece
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by keropi » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:04 pm

yes I would do just that: remove the eeprom , flash it and re-solder it
luckily I don't have to do that now :lol: the card must have a fallback or something.

I waited 5mins - the system was completely frozen , not just the window but everything - even the mouse cursor.
2nd time it flashed successfully the process was just a few seconds .

Well success! paulv was correct once again - I needed to update the nic =D> :D

Image

thanks again for the input Paul!!!!

stevebubs
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:01 am
Location: Berks
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by stevebubs » Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:58 pm

Interesting thread.. If I reflash my NIC as per above, will it prevent it working with RiscOS 3.5/6/7?

User avatar
paulv
Posts: 3853
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Location: Leicestershire
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by paulv » Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:26 pm

stevebubs wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:58 pm
Interesting thread.. If I reflash my NIC as per above, will it prevent it working with RiscOS 3.5/6/7?
Shouldn't do, no.

Paul

User avatar
paulv
Posts: 3853
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Location: Leicestershire
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by paulv » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:02 pm

http://riscossmbserver.sourceforge.net/downloads.html

This should allow you to create SMB shares from your RiscPC so Windows can read/write to them without FTP... It's a bit on the flaky side though and keeps crashing on me even when I'm not actually touching the RiscPC so YMMV but it's an interesting way of doing file sharing...

Paul

User avatar
keropi
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:35 pm
Location: Greece
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by keropi » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:00 am

thanks again for the input paulv - I will give it a shot and report back :D

aotta
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 8:57 am
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by aotta » Fri May 17, 2019 10:27 pm

paulv wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:44 pm
I'll pm you.

Paul
Hi Paul,
can you pm me too the updated toolbox?
i can't make working my a602 i-cubed card, i've already upgraded rom with latest nic driver, but i can't connect my RiscPC to the lan.
The only strange feedback i found (other than it didn't ping! ;) is that in showstat i get Link "Interface okay" but Status "Interface inactive".
Is it normal?
Thank you in advance!

User avatar
paulv
Posts: 3853
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Location: Leicestershire
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by paulv » Sat May 18, 2019 9:18 am

I've PM'd you but it sounds more like it's a card configuration thing rather than anything else.

The card can be used with 10-base-T and 10-base-2 and I believe it defaults to 10-base-2 so there's some config to do if you want to use 10 base T which should activate the card once it has a physical connection. I've never had much success with "auto" as the setting so always force it.

Code: Select all

*conf. EHConnection 10baseT

Then:

*conf. EHVirtual on <- if you also have a PC card and want networking in windows
*conf. EHVirtual off <- if you don't have a PC card or don't want networking in windows or have a second NIC fitted in a podule
Paul
Last edited by paulv on Sat May 18, 2019 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

aotta
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 8:57 am
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by aotta » Mon May 20, 2019 4:20 pm

I set the configration, and *ehinfo report the nic is set to 10baseT, with twisted wire and incorrect polarity, and states the link is Good (when rj45 cable is inserted, of course).
Anyway, not only I can't get my rpc ping to router or pc, but I had to *unplug etherh podule to get riscos 6.20 sofload too, otherwise I get an illegal address at boot.

I have updated the eh602 eprom with the nic drivers from riscos site (ok, it was a bad idea but I didn't know what else to try to get it work) and I think now nic works even worst.
Is there somewhere the original (or simply different) rom to burn in podule to made further test?

User avatar
paulv
Posts: 3853
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Location: Leicestershire
Contact:

Re: What do I need to connect riscos4.39 to a windows workgroup for file sharing?

Post by paulv » Mon May 20, 2019 5:13 pm

It sounds like the driver is working fine and it's more likely to be config of the ip stack under 4.39. I wouldn't confuse things by trying to soft load RISC OS 6 until you're up and running with RISC OS 4.39 as that's a known to work config with the latest drivers you have on your card in other people's setup's including mine.

Can you take some photos of your network config for RISC OS 4 and post them here?

Paul

Post Reply