VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Arc/RPCs, peripherals, RISCOS operating system & ARM kit eg GP2x, BeagleBoard
Post Reply
User avatar
daveejhitchins
Posts: 4528
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:23 pm
Location: Newton Aycliffe, County Durham
Contact:

VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by daveejhitchins » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:24 am

Not sure if I've posted these before - can't find them in 'search" - but that doesn't mean a lot!

IMG_3007.jpg
Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

RobC
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:41 pm
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by RobC » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:34 am

They are the original Arc MEMCs. Our eldest is called Anna and I gave her one to take into Digital Technology club at school :)

User avatar
1024MAK
Posts: 8097
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:46 pm
Location: Looking forward to summer in Somerset, UK...
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by 1024MAK » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:03 pm

Yeah, but what I think Dave really wants to know, is, can one be used in an Elk to help with a memory expansion :lol:

Mark

User avatar
daveejhitchins
Posts: 4528
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:23 pm
Location: Newton Aycliffe, County Durham
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by daveejhitchins » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:38 pm

1024MAK wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:03 pm
Yeah, but what I think Dave really wants to know, is, can one be used in an Elk to help with a memory expansion :lol:

Mark
=D> :lol:

Not quite, however, would they be useful to anyone?

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

User avatar
davidb
Posts: 2251
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:11 pm
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by davidb » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:45 pm

I wonder what the difference is between the VL2304-QC (top) and VL2304PS-QC (bottom) parts.

User avatar
z0m8ied0g
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:41 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by z0m8ied0g » Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:59 pm

I might be interested if they can be used to put one of my machines back to its original spec.
Acorn... lots of Acorn... http://blog.retroacorn.net

User avatar
IanS
Posts: 716
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:02 pm
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by IanS » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:02 pm

z0m8ied0g wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:59 pm
I might be interested if they can be used to put one of my machines back to its original spec.
It's only of use if you can find the appropriate PAL to go with them. When you replace the MEMC1 with a MEMC1a you had to replace a PAL chip. The PAL chip for the MEMC1a is just a 1-1 pin mapping and easy to reproduce (you can just use a set of DIL switches). I'm not aware of anyone decoding the original MEMC1 PAL to reproduce it (Lots of people probably have the old one still safely stored away if they ever need it).
http://chrisacorns.computinghistory.org ... itting.pdf

User avatar
daveejhitchins
Posts: 4528
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:23 pm
Location: Newton Aycliffe, County Durham
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by daveejhitchins » Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:43 pm

IanS wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:02 pm
It's only of use if you can find the appropriate PAL to go with them. When you replace the MEMC1 with a MEMC1a you had to replace a PAL chip. The PAL chip for the MEMC1a is just a 1-1 pin mapping and easy to reproduce (you can just use a set of DIL switches). I'm not aware of anyone decoding the original MEMC1 PAL to reproduce it (Lots of people probably have the old one still safely stored away if they ever need it).
http://chrisacorns.computinghistory.org ... itting.pdf
Have we a part number for the original PLD? I have a lot of unknown ones!

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

User avatar
IanS
Posts: 716
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:02 pm
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by IanS » Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:55 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:43 pm
Have we a part number for the original PLD? I have a lot of unknown ones!
Probably "0276 032-01". It matches my A305 MEMC1 pal and the one shown here - https://www.retro-kit.co.uk/page.cfm/co ... 0-RISCOS2/

dp11
Posts: 856
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:47 pm
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by dp11 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:34 pm

One of the very early VLSI appnotes had a set equations for the PLD

User avatar
IanS
Posts: 716
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:02 pm
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by IanS » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:41 pm

dp11 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:34 pm
One of the very early VLSI appnotes had a set equations for the PLD
Interesting do you have a link to that? (Or a paper copy you could scan?)

dp11
Posts: 856
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:47 pm
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by dp11 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:50 pm

Let me see what i can find in the loft

User avatar
daveejhitchins
Posts: 4528
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:23 pm
Location: Newton Aycliffe, County Durham
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by daveejhitchins » Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:40 am

IanS wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:55 pm
daveejhitchins wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:43 pm
Have we a part number for the original PLD? I have a lot of unknown ones!
Probably "0276 032-01". It matches my A305 MEMC1 pal and the one shown here - https://www.retro-kit.co.uk/page.cfm/co ... 0-RISCOS2/
Ah! Not found anything matching that style of number - but did find lots of other things, while looking :lol:

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

User avatar
paulv
Posts: 3727
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Location: Leicestershire
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by paulv » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:31 am

I actually have that PAL in a reasonably easy to find spot. I spotted it when I was preparing for ABUG so I've seen it in the last month.

If someone wants to read it, I can dig it out and send it.

Paul

User avatar
daveejhitchins
Posts: 4528
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:23 pm
Location: Newton Aycliffe, County Durham
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by daveejhitchins » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:23 am

paulv wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:31 am
I actually have that PAL in a reasonably easy to find spot. I spotted it when I was preparing for ABUG so I've seen it in the last month.

If someone wants to read it, I can dig it out and send it.

Paul
I'll do that, Paul. Then if anyone wants one of tha Anna chips I can also include the PLD to go with it.

I'll PM my address.

Dave H..
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

User avatar
IanS
Posts: 716
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:02 pm
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by IanS » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:16 am

daveejhitchins wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:23 am
paulv wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:31 am
I actually have that PAL in a reasonably easy to find spot. I spotted it when I was preparing for ABUG so I've seen it in the last month.

If someone wants to read it, I can dig it out and send it.

Paul
I'll do that, Paul. Then if anyone wants one of tha Anna chips I can also include the PLD to go with it.
The PALis fairly easy to get at in an A3xx, just need to take the backplane out. I did it recently to test an MEMC1a (and replacement PAL).
I'm fairly sure the PAL is registered, I would assume Acorn secured/locked them, but I've not checked.
memc-pal.PNG
The replacement PAL chip for the MEMC1a is just straight through connections, 2->19, 3->18 etc., You can just put links or an 8-way DIL switch in the middle 16 pins of the socket.

dp11
Posts: 856
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:47 pm
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by dp11 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:06 pm

I've looked in the loft and I was thinking of VLSI app note 14 which is actual async operation of ARM and IOC. Sorry

User avatar
IanS
Posts: 716
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:02 pm
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by IanS » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:25 pm

dp11 wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:06 pm
I've looked in the loft and I was thinking of VLSI app note 14 which is actual async operation of ARM and IOC. Sorry
Thanks for looking.

sirbod
Posts: 902
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:44 am
Location: Essex
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by sirbod » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:54 pm

I would have thought an 16L8A could be reverse engineered by applying a binary sequence to pins 1..9 and see what outputs on 11..19, its only AND/OR gates.

It would be interesting to know under what condition it kicks in, we know it affects MUL/MLA but the affect on other instructions isn't so obvious.
Attachments
16L8A.png
16L8A.png (11.05 KiB) Viewed 256 times

User avatar
IanS
Posts: 716
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:02 pm
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by IanS » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:34 pm

sirbod wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:54 pm
I would have thought an 16L8A could be reverse engineered by applying a binary sequence to pins 1..9 and see what outputs on 11..19, its only AND/OR gates.
Interesting, I always assumed there was some sort of state machine embedded in the PAL, maybe not.
I guess it could be using the unconnected outputs (13 & 14) as feedback terms for a state machine (Similar to how the CPC memory PAL works - http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/PAL16L8 Q0,Q1 & Q2 are unconnected pins on the schematic - http://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/4/4a/CPC6128_Schematic.png)
Last edited by IanS on Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
daveejhitchins
Posts: 4528
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:23 pm
Location: Newton Aycliffe, County Durham
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by daveejhitchins » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:09 pm

Thanks to PaulV (thank's Paul) I now have the PLD for the original Anna MEMC - and it wasn't locked :D

Here the .jed file. If someone has the time to convert this to a .pld file??
MEMC ANNA PLD.jed.zip
(580 Bytes) Downloaded 7 times

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

User avatar
paulv
Posts: 3727
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Location: Leicestershire
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by paulv » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:00 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:09 pm
Thanks to PaulV (thank's Paul) I now have the PLD for the original Anna MEMC - and it wasn't locked :D

Here the .jed file. If someone has the time to convert this to a .pld file??
MEMC ANNA PLD.jed.zip

Dave H :D
Cool :)

RobC
Posts: 2366
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:41 pm
Contact:

Re: VL2304PS-QC - ANNA

Post by RobC » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:49 pm

Great stuff. Haven't had time to produce a PLD file but here are the equations as generated by jedutil.
Attachments
MEMC ANNA PLD.zip
MEMC ANNA PLD equations
(437 Bytes) Downloaded 6 times

Post Reply