IDE->SD/CF Adapters (What works and what doesnt)

Arc/RPCs, peripherals, RISCOS operating system & ARM kit eg GP2x, BeagleBoard
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RichardP
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IDE->SD/CF Adapters (What works and what doesnt)

Post by RichardP » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:40 am

Acorn machines are fussy on IDE->xxxx adapters, this thread was created so that a list of what works and doesnt can be compiled.
s-l500.jpg
Machine : A3020 (Standard IDE interface)
Observations : SD card is recognised and !HDForm formats something sucessfully
Result : Although the process is successful, the system is unable to read the SD card.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/44-Pin-Male- ... 2749.l2648

Image of Interface chipset under sticker
2018-11-08-083242.jpg

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1024MAK
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Re: IDE->SD/CF Adapters (What works and what doesnt)

Post by 1024MAK » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:59 am

Part of the problem is that the Acorn IDE Interface is not fully compliment to the modern IDE “standard”. And not all IDE devices completely comply to the modern IDE “standard”...

Mark

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vanpeebles
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Re: IDE->SD/CF Adapters (What works and what doesnt)

Post by vanpeebles » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:04 am

It would need to state what it's connected to as well :) The rapIDE in my RPC was always far more tolerant of stuff than the onboard sockets.
Last edited by 1024MAK on Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited to remove the [flash] tags.

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Re: IDE->SD/CF Adapters (What works and what doesnt)

Post by sirbod » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:11 pm

There are several issues that cause IDE devices to fail, all of which can be resolved if you take a look at this thread.
  1. ADFS was based around the first IDE standard, which stipulated a DRQ timeout of 500ns, this was removed in later revisions. The patched ADFS 2.68 will resolve this issue
  2. Bulk data transfers can cause issues, the patched ADFS resolves this by restricting transfers to 1 block at a time
  3. Later IDE standards do not assert the 16bit line as it was removed from the standard, this can be corrected by pulling -IOCS16 low
  4. The NIC on the RPC will fail if two SD cards are used as the Ready line needs to be pulled low, this can be corrected with a diode
While diagnosing the various issues, I tested over 50 devices (CF/SD/IDE/SATA) that had previously failed and all worked with the above fixes.
Last edited by sirbod on Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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1024MAK
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Re: IDE->SD/CF Adapters (What works and what doesnt)

Post by 1024MAK » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:25 pm

Well done that man, good work =D>

Mark

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jms2
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Re: IDE->SD/CF Adapters (What works and what doesnt)

Post by jms2 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:16 pm

sirbod wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:11 pm
There are several issues that cause IDE devices to fail, all of which can be resolved
I wish I'd taken more notice of that thread at the time, but I think what distracted me was the reference to disk error numbers at the beginning. I never got any disc errors when trying CF cards on my A3000, instead everything just went crazy!

The HCCS card has its own IDEFS, so presumably ADFS version 2.68 isn't an option for that?

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Re: IDE->SD/CF Adapters (What works and what doesnt)

Post by sirbod » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:51 am

jms2 wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:16 pm
what distracted me was the reference to disk error numbers at the beginning
I should probabably start a new thread at some point, with the concise detail from that thread and get an admin to pin it. HD issues repeatedly come up and certainly as far as ADFS goes, I think we've resolved all the previous incompatibility issues. The next step, which I still haven't got round to doing is to create a cheap in-line adapter to correct the hardware issues.

As an offshoot, I also looked at creating RISC OS 3.20 with the fixes in ROM, but that brought a whole new list of problems to solve due to static linking to CLib and lack of ROM builds for many key Modules.
jms2 wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:16 pm
The HCCS card has its own IDEFS, so presumably ADFS version 2.68 isn't an option for that?
HCCS appears to work with more devices, so it may have other incompatibilities. Someone needs to go to the lengths I and others did with ADFS to identify the issues and figure a way to fix them.

The first step would be to collect devices that fail and confirm that don't work with the latest HCCS Module.

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jms2
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Re: IDE->SD/CF Adapters (What works and what doesnt)

Post by jms2 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:55 am

I never did quite understand the difference between ADFS and IDEFS. Presumably the difference was that ADFS on earlier machines supported ST506 drives but not IDE, whereas later versions of ADFS included IDE support as well.

I would imagine that reverse engineering the iDEFS would be very difficult. I wonder how different the hardware is compared to the Acorn interface though - or vice versa, ie could the HCCS driver work on an Acorn interface? Presumably not, as a later version of the HCCS rom that I have refuses to work with my interface, suggesting that each piece of software is closely tied to one hardware configuration only.

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Re: IDE->SD/CF Adapters (What works and what doesnt)

Post by RichardP » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:13 pm

IDE->CF
cf.jpg
Machine : A3020 (Built-in IDE)

Works with a 32MB CF card out the box..

Does not work with a 16GB CF card (Error 23)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Laptop-44-Pi ... 2749.l2648
Last edited by RichardP on Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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danielj
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Re: IDE->SD/CF Adapters (What works and what doesnt)

Post by danielj » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:51 pm

IDE-CF adaptors are passive - they're literally just changing the size of the connector to CF-size (CF is basically an IDE interface). It'll be the specific 32GB card that gets on with the unpatched ADFS and the 16GB one that doesn't. It's very very hit-and-miss, so using the advice in Jon's post: posting.php?mode=reply&f=16&t=16000#pr219871 is really the only way to make sure things work.

d.

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