IDE interfaces - hardware details

Arc/RPCs, peripherals, RISCOS operating system & ARM kit eg GP2x, BeagleBoard
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daveejhitchins
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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by daveejhitchins » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:02 pm

AndyMc1280 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:02 pm
IanS wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:33 pm
The boards I produced are not hardware compatible with any Baildon cards. IDEFS software module don't just magically work with any IDE hardware interface.
Ok Ok, was only asking lol. :mrgreen:
I'd rather not have to reformat and start again, thats why I mentioned it, but if I have do set up a clean card so be it..
Go you , rewriting your own IDEFS... braver than me lol.
I started work on the 6C again today - Hopefully not too many interruptions - except, maybe the Pegasus I've just found!.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by IanS » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:51 pm

AndyMc1280 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:02 pm
Go you , rewriting your own IDEFS... braver than me lol.
Nope, not me, it was John Kortink - http://www.zeridajh.org/software/zidefs/index.htm I just produced compatible hardware.

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by AndyMc1280 » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:16 pm

IanS wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:51 pm
AndyMc1280 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:02 pm
Go you , rewriting your own IDEFS... braver than me lol.
Nope, not me, it was John Kortink - http://www.zeridajh.org/software/zidefs/index.htm I just produced compatible hardware.
Back to being nosey. I bought two of the cards, one for my R260 and an 8bit one for my A3010.

Am I correct in what I think I read in that you can switch between IDEFS and ZIDEFS ? What are the jumper settings to do so ?

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by IanS » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:20 pm

AndyMc1280 wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:16 pm
The two jumpers on board, one selects between ZIDEFS or other, when set to other, the other jumoer switches between IDEFS and SIDEFS (of little use to anyone, but left in for extreme cases of 3 cards fitted to one machine)

Try changing the jumpers, do a full reset, check the module list, see which modules are loaded.

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by AndyMc1280 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:32 am

IanS wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:26 pm
daveejhitchins wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:44 am
I wonder if the firmware on the 6C version PCB 'catches-up' with these features? Anyone know?
Probably, I'm sure it probably gained partition support if nothing else.
daveejhitchins wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:44 am
The 5x version was upgraded quite a lot, from when ZIDEFS was written - the latest version I have is attached. Maybe worth a try?

BE-APDL-IDE5-IDEFS3v22-CDFS2v21-0V21.BIN.zipFor this board"IMG_2432.jpgIMG_2431.jpg
I do have one of those IDE cards, that's where my journey with ZIDEFS started. I tried the ZIDEFS rom in it, and it didn't work. Only then did I notice the picture of the IDE card on John's website. That was many years ago.
I don't expect the newer rom to work on the older interface.

I can add to this discussion.

My 6C with latest 3.28 idefs (Yes there's a later version of the module.) Supports 8 partitions. I have a 5B with earlier 3.21 idefs.

In the course of my pratting around with trying to have 8 partitions on my A3010, (3.21 has 4) someone took the rom image above and substituted the later idefs module. Never got to try it out as A3010 went wonky.

So, if anyone wants to add 8 partition support.....
Last edited by AndyMc1280 on Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by aotta » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:43 pm

i am working on 16bit podule version, i am missing only soldering resistors but i need some help for their values (for r8 to r31 ones) and i am not sure about j1 and jp3 role..
Ide16.jpg
may be give me a little help IanS?

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by IanS » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:00 pm

aotta wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:43 pm
i am working on 16bit podule version, i am missing only soldering resistors but i need some help for their values (for r8 to r31 ones) and i am not sure about j1 and jp3 role..
Ide16.jpg

may be give me a little help IanS?
r8 - r31 are series resistors for the ide signals. Dave suggests they are essential if using long IDE cables, I generally fit DOM or CF adapters where the cable length is almost zero. Based on the circuit diagrams Dave posted, they should be about 68 Ohms, I fitted 56 Ohms on some boards. For the first batch of boards I didn't have these resistors on the board, and on the latest batch (not yet for sale) I've taken them off again (too much hassle to solder, and most people are using DOM's or CF adapters)

J4 and JP3 work together, so that in theory you can fit the board to a machine without a backplane. If fitted to a machine without a backplane (A3xx only), don't fit a jumper to jp3, and connect the red +5 wire from the power supply to J4. I didn't have a lot of success doing this with HCT chips, but if you use HC chips (74HC245 for U1,U3 and U4) it works well fitted directly to the motherboard without a backplane. If using a backplane, fit a jumper link to JP3 and don't connect anything to J4.

J1 is where you can fit a drive activity LED (looks like you've already added an LED in the picture), the circuit with two transistors, shameless based on Dave's circuit is to drive a bi-color LED. If using a single colour LED and it lights when it should be off, swap the pins over.

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by aotta » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:16 pm

Thank you IanS for all info! I need it for my a5000 (finally I made a working ones) and I will use a CF card, so I"ll solder a simple wire or a 0R resistor, and left jumper (and led) as already done.
Thank you again!

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by aotta » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:52 pm

too beauty to be real... finished assembling 16bit board, installed on the A5000 and:
- with ide (cf or real hd) connected, hangs on purple screen;
- without ide connected, it boot but at *podules command i get: "internal error: address exception at &0382601c", with all four combination of jp1 & jp2.
I put zidefs at &70000, and other FS at 74000, 78000 and 7c000 as in previous post indicated.

I know i am one of your worst nightmares IanS... but can you give me another hints? [-o<

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by IanS » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:07 pm

aotta wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:52 pm
too beauty to be real... finished assembling 16bit board, installed on the A5000 and:
- with ide (cf or real hd) connected, hangs on purple screen;
- without ide connected, it boot but at *podules command i get: "internal error: address exception at &0382601c", with all four combination of jp1 & jp2.
I put zidefs at &70000, and other FS at 74000, 78000 and 7c000 as in previous post indicated.

I know i am one of your worst nightmares IanS... but can you give me another hints? [-o<
Have you fitted a jumper link on JP3?
Do you have +5v on each chip? (what test equpment do you have? do you have a multimeter?)
What happens if you remove the chips U1 & U3? (it should still detect the ROM modules, but the IDE bit won't work)
Have you used the different GAL equations? (the 8-bit and 16-bit GAL contents are different, as are the ROM contents)

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by aotta » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:33 pm

IanS wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:07 pm
aotta wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:52 pm
too beauty to be real... finished assembling 16bit board, installed on the A5000 and:
- with ide (cf or real hd) connected, hangs on purple screen;
- without ide connected, it boot but at *podules command i get: "internal error: address exception at &0382601c", with all four combination of jp1 & jp2.
I put zidefs at &70000, and other FS at 74000, 78000 and 7c000 as in previous post indicated.

I know i am one of your worst nightmares IanS... but can you give me another hints? [-o<
Have you fitted a jumper link on JP3?
Do you have +5v on each chip? (what test equpment do you have? do you have a multimeter?)
What happens if you remove the chips U1 & U3? (it should still detect the ROM modules, but the IDE bit won't work)
Have you used the different GAL equations? (the 8-bit and 16-bit GAL contents are different, as are the ROM contents)
The jumper on JP3 solved purple screen issue, and now it boot with CF attached, but i get always address exception and podule isn't recognized.
5V found at last pin of each IC, and removed U1 & U3 make no difference.
I used GAl for if0, but i decoded it myself to JED format, maybe i made some error... tomorrow i will recheck the GAL programming, thank you for precious help IanS!

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by IanS » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:40 pm

aotta wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:33 pm
The jumper on JP3 solved purple screen issue, and now it boot with CF attached, but i get always address exception and podule isn't recognized.
5V found at last pin of each IC, and removed U1 & U3 make no difference.
I used GAl for if0, but i decoded it myself to JED format, maybe i made some error... tomorrow i will recheck the GAL programming, thank you for precious help IanS!
Try this for the GAL.
IDE_Podule.zip
if0 GAL JED File
(668 Bytes) Downloaded 2 times

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by aotta » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:45 pm

IanS wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:40 pm

Try this for the GAL.
IDE_Podule.zip
Thank you, but no difference... always same exception.

I will recheck all solders tomorrow and made further test.. :(

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by IanS » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:39 pm

aotta wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:45 pm
IanS wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:40 pm

Try this for the GAL.
IDE_Podule.zip
Thank you, but no difference... always same exception.

I will recheck all solders tomorrow and made further test.. :(
With the podule in slot 0, can you run the command "*memory b 03340000+ff". This should show the first part of the rom.
The rom will appear in every 4th byte (as highlighted).
IMG_20181126_232235_HDR.jpg
*memory output
You can see how this matches with the first bytes in the rom.
dump.PNG
Rom dump (ZIDEFS)
Any differences should help in diagnosis.

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by aotta » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:14 am

mmhh.. a lot of difference, in fact:
debug.jpg
it seems the 3rd bit (4) is always set.. :wink:
Last edited by aotta on Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by IanS » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:28 am

aotta wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:14 am
it seems the 3rd bit (4) is always set.. :wink:
Yep, time to check your soldering.

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by aotta » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:32 am

IanS wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:28 am
aotta wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:14 am
it seems the 3rd bit (4) is always set.. :wink:
Yep, time to check your soldering.
Yes, great idea give a look in memory! Many thanks again!

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by aotta » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:29 pm

aotta wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:32 am
IanS wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:28 am
aotta wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:14 am
it seems the 3rd bit (4) is always set.. :wink:
Yep, time to check your soldering.
Yes, great idea give a look in memory! Many thanks again!
Found the bug! and was wery small... a drill on the pcb in the D2 line from ROM and GAL was scrapy.. and line interrupted! a wire solved and podule start! now trying to use hform on CF card without formatting my IDE Discs... :lol:
You are my hero IanS!

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by IanS » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:35 pm

aotta wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:29 pm
Found the bug! and was wery small... a drill on the pcb in the D2 line from ROM and GAL was scrapy.. and line interrupted! a wire solved and podule start! now trying to use hform on CF card without formatting my IDE Discs... :lol:
Run hform from floppy, and disconnect the IDE connected to the on-board interface. I always do it just to be sure.

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by aotta » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:26 pm

IanS wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:35 pm
aotta wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:29 pm
Found the bug! and was wery small... a drill on the pcb in the D2 line from ROM and GAL was scrapy.. and line interrupted! a wire solved and podule start! now trying to use hform on CF card without formatting my IDE Discs... :lol:
Run hform from floppy, and disconnect the IDE connected to the on-board interface. I always do it just to be sure.
Mission accomplished!
last two (i promise! :D ) question, as cherries upon the cake...
- is there a way to make front yellow led flashing when podule's drive is operating?
- if replacing HD with a SDcard ide, i can format it in ADFS but i got "broken directory" when accessing.. is possible to use internal ide drive with zidefs? i have to add a 5th column eprom with zidefs (or Wizzo, i read somewhere it's seems best FS for sdcard2Ide adapter)?

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by IanS » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:58 pm

aotta wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:26 pm
Mission accomplished!
last two (i promise! :D ) question, as cherries upon the cake...
- is there a way to make front yellow led flashing when podule's drive is operating?
- if replacing HD with a SDcard ide, i can format it in ADFS but i got "broken directory" when accessing.. is possible to use internal ide drive with zidefs? i have to add a 5th column eprom with zidefs (or Wizzo, i read somewhere it's seems best FS for sdcard2Ide adapter)?
The front HD LED is wired into the internal IDE port, so it would be difficult to make it flash for the podule access. You could wire up the front power LED to the podule, then depending on the which way round you connect the wires, the LED will be on or off when the drive is accessed. So you could wire it up so it is on most of the time (acting as a power indicator), but goes off to show drive access.

I don't own an A5000 so have never had chance to try SD/CF cards on the internal port (I guess it's similar to the A4000). From what I read on here, the wizzo rom is a good solution, and it's easy to fit in an A5000 with the 5th column rom socket.

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by aotta » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:58 pm

IanS wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:58 pm

The front HD LED is wired into the internal IDE port, so it would be difficult to make it flash for the podule access. You could wire up the front power LED to the podule, then depending on the which way round you connect the wires, the LED will be on or off when the drive is accessed. So you could wire it up so it is on most of the time (acting as a power indicator), but goes off to show drive access.
It's what i was thinking too, but i'd like to left front led working for ide drive too... maybe i can made an "Y" cable for both source, with a diode in the + wire from podules, so led should flash when one of two drives is running.

Anyway, i enjoy myself in making both 8 and 16 bit podules you shared with us, and you was very kind in helping me all times i got in trouble... if you PM your mail i'll offer you a paypal-beer! :wink:

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by IanS » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:07 am

aotta wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:58 pm
Anyway, i enjoy myself in making both 8 and 16 bit podules you shared with us, and you was very kind in helping me all times i got in trouble... if you PM your mail i'll offer you a paypal-beer! :wink:
I'm just happy that you got them both working. How many PCB's did you get made, are you going to populate them and sell any?

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Re: IDE interfaces - hardware details

Post by aotta » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:26 am

IanS wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:07 am

I'm just happy that you got them both working. How many PCB's did you get made, are you going to populate them and sell any?
I've a A3000, a A4000 and a A5000, so i made two 8 bit and one 16 bit boards. I had to order 10 PCBs for each version, so I had some left and maybe l'll populate one or two more boards for spare, but I don't think to sell any card.

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