Viewdata Service

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John_Newcombe
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by John_Newcombe » Thu May 10, 2018 10:39 am

I have updated TELSTAR now. It includes TELESOFTWARE :D .

glasstty:6502

The protocol implemented on TELSTAR works with Commstar for programs up to 25 frames. I have yet to implement 'Zero' routing which isn't much to do and this will allow many more frames.

The test 'Hello World' program hosted at the moment is a tokenised BASIC program and although it is small, it tests the system reasonably well. I will undertake further tests for binary files when I get chance.

The routing engine has been updated to be similar in the way Prestel worked, however there are a couple of very minor bugs which I will sort out. Also I haven't yet implemented the 'Master Page' navigation stuff where IP's had the three digit master pages. At the moment you end up back at the main index.

Currently there is only one service running (it will handle multiple connections), it is named MONTY. It is running out of a data centre in London.

Thanks go to the guys over at the Software thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15047&p=202811#p202811 for helping me with protocol issues. For now, I will continue posting updates here until told otherwise.

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John_Newcombe
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New Content from Reuters and Better Navigation

Post by John_Newcombe » Tue May 15, 2018 6:26 pm

Hi All jus a quick update. The service has been updated and now includes a few new facilities including a Teletext page import facility, better routing with a Prestel like routing map and Reuters content.

Content is still quite weak in places, and the style is a tad boring, especially the intermediate frames, however, I am sure it will evolve as time progresses.

Next task is to develop a cross platform page editor in Python.

ImageImage
Last edited by John_Newcombe on Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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John_Newcombe
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by John_Newcombe » Thu May 24, 2018 7:09 pm

I have added more content, in particular Government content from the Office of Rail and Road, and Highways England, I can now show up to the minute (well 10 minutes) details of road and rail delays.

Full details and some screen shots here... https://glasstty.com/wiki/index.php/Int ... ata_system

Image
Last edited by John_Newcombe on Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SoundLad
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by SoundLad » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:39 pm

Fantastic brings back loads of memorys this.. But having a few issues sometimes.. Tried everything to get it to work... For example i have added one perfect image from telstar sometimes and then a gobble de goook the next....
Attachments
test2.jpg
Perfect
test.jpg
Gobble de gook
SoundLad

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danielj
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by danielj » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:59 pm

How are you connecting and at what speed?

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John_Newcombe
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by John_Newcombe » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:22 pm

The recommended speed for Telstar is 1200 or 2400 full duplex. Any faster and the flash messages can be missed and the experience IMHO is too 'modern'.

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John_Newcombe
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Bye bye Monty hello Currer, Ellis and Acton

Post by John_Newcombe » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:30 pm

Telstar now moved to new servers and migrated to Python3. There are two/three servers available and each can service multiple clients, so that should keep it fairly future proof.

The servers are on the same url but with different ports, e.g.

glasstty.com 6502
glasstty.com 6503


There is a third server which is used to test updates etc. this is on port 6504.

The Telstar system names are CURRER, ELLIS and ACTON respectively (get it?).

There are still a couple of outstanding routing bugs, I will try and sort these asap. Content will get a little tidy also and coming soon (hopefully), is a gateway to an adventure game, in fact THE adventure game, a port of “Adventure” from the original 1977 FORTRAN code by Crowther and Woods. More on that later.

Enjoy!

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Elminster
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by Elminster » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:51 pm

All you need now is an interface to read and post to stardot forums.

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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by SoundLad » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:45 pm

John_Newcombe wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:22 pm
The recommended speed for Telstar is 1200 or 2400 full duplex. Any faster and the flash messages can be missed and the experience IMHO is too 'modern'.
ahh thats what i did wrong left 1200 out it was 9600
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John_Newcombe
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by John_Newcombe » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:58 am

Elminster wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:51 pm
All you need now is an interface to read and post to stardot forums.
It already shows a summary of posts on page 800 :).

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Elminster
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by Elminster » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:10 am

John_Newcombe wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:58 am
Elminster wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:51 pm
All you need now is an interface to read and post to stardot forums.
It already shows a summary of posts on page 800 :).
Half way there then. I hadn’t spotted that but to be fair I have visited for a free weeks. (I work on ‘getting old weeks’, so error margin is high).

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pau1ie
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by pau1ie » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:25 pm

I am a little disappointed that this doesn't work in terminal. The Master Welcome guide says you need to buy an Acorn Prestel adapter to use Prestel, which comes with a self-dialing modem and a ROM. Still, commstar works fine on the Master.
I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk

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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by colonel32 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:49 pm

Great to see you have been exploring this, @John_Newcombe!

Is there any viewdata terminal client software available that runs natively on Windows, rather than on a BBC or in a browser?

I can connect to glasstty.com in PuTTY, but it doesn't understand viewdata/Prestel format, unless I'm missing an option somewhere.

I have a very tentative aim to write a viewdata client on the Spectrum Next, which unlike the original Speccy can just about support 40x24.75 in full colour, and also has an integrated ESP-01 modem.

Cheers, Robin
Last edited by colonel32 on Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:19 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Richard Russell
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by Richard Russell » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:03 pm

colonel32 wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:49 pm
Is there any viewdata terminal client software available that runs natively on Windows, rather than on a BBC or in a browser?
I've recently written a suitable client in 'BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0' (BBCSDL) which runs in Windows, Linux, Mac OS, Raspberry Pi, Android and iOS. I was hoping to release it soon, but some doubt has arisen. John can probably say more.

Image

colonel32
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by colonel32 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:53 pm

Richard Russell wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:03 pm
I've recently written a suitable client in 'BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0' (BBCSDL) which runs in Windows, Linux, Mac OS, Raspberry Pi, Android and iOS. I was hoping to release it soon, but some doubt has arisen. John can probably say more.
Excellent news, cheers Richard. I will await developments.

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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by guesser » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:55 pm

colonel32 wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:49 pm
I have a very tentative aim to write a viewdata client on the Spectrum Next, which unlike the original Speccy can just about support 40x24.75 in full colour, and also has an integrated ESP-01 modem.
The speccy does surprisingly well at teletext so long as you avoid excessive use of background colours and hold mosaics.
Spacing attributes conveniently hide colour clash otherwise :)
Maybe I should write a viewdata client for spectranet heh

The obligatory example, the rendering code in this particular ROM adds a few extra issues besides the colour clash and dot crawl :wink:
p792.jpg
Last edited by guesser on Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
A web based teletext editor which can export as Mode 7 screen memory: https://zxnet.co.uk/teletext/editor

colonel32
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by colonel32 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:17 am

guesser wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:55 pm
The obligatory example, the rendering code in this particular ROM adds a few extra issues besides the colour clash and dot crawl :wink:
Yes, that looks great Guesser! I've already found your editor and Richard's really useful.

I'm doing this in the new mode that has 256 colours per pixel and transparency (box mode for a bonus), so fingers crossed no clash.

My tentativeness has firmed up since earlier today.

I fudged the Mullard charset for one fewerline. It looks surprisingly MODE 7ish, if a little cramped.

Image

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Richard Russell
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by Richard Russell » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:16 pm

colonel32 wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:53 pm
Excellent news, cheers Richard. I will await developments.
I have today released my client software for the TELSTAR service (and other Viewdata-style services accessed via telnet, such as CCl4). Rather than making it available separately, I've bundled it with the latest update to BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 (BBCSDL); it can be found in the examples/general folder. It runs on all the supported platforms: Windows, Linux, Mac OS, Raspberry Pi, Android and iOS. There's also a standalone Android app should you prefer not to install BBC BASIC itself.

The sample telesoftware programs currently available from TELSTAR can be downloaded and run using my client, since they are themselves written in BBC BASIC. However please note that if you do that on a mobile device you will need to fully close the app before you can restart the TELSTAR client.

Richard.

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Elminster
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by Elminster » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:28 pm

That works great on the Mac version. Been pinging around Telstar.
Last edited by Elminster on Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by scruss » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:05 pm

Richard, John — thank you. This works extremely well on BBCSDL on a Raspberry Pi, even over a VNC connection. If you need another Acorn connection, VNC was originally out of Olivetti Labs Cambridge, which was kind-of a relic of Acorn's R&D group.

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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by colonel32 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:24 pm

Richard Russell wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:16 pm
I have today released my client software for the TELSTAR service
This is superb, Richard. Very instructive! This is the first time I've seen the SDL version too, great job.

Thanks! Robin
Last edited by colonel32 on Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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John_Newcombe
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by John_Newcombe » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:28 pm

Colossal Cave Adventure now available on TELSTAR using the new Gateway facility.

https://glasstty.com/wiki/index.php/Int ... ata_system

Enjoy!

Image
Image
Last edited by John_Newcombe on Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by colonel32 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:44 pm

John_Newcombe wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:28 pm
Colossal Cave Adventure now available on TELSTAR using the new Gateway facility.
That’s excellent, John. Pity MrPixel will never get see this lol.

I’ve been connecting and disconnecting to TELSTAR a lot lately, trying to get my Spectrum Next client going. Do you have a preference for which server I should use, or doesn’t it matter?

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John_Newcombe
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by John_Newcombe » Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:48 pm

It doesn't really matter, but I would suggest 6503 Ellis as it is less used but runs the same code as 6502 Currer.

If you need anything at this end just shout here or on Twitter @johnnewcombeuk.

Will you be implementing telesoftware?
Last edited by John_Newcombe on Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

TynHau
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by TynHau » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:54 am

Works on the Arc using David Pilling‘s HearSay too:

Image

Image

Nice job!

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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by Soruk » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:50 pm

The Telstar APK works a treat on my phone and tablet. Nice work!

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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by colonel32 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:07 pm

John_Newcombe wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:48 pm
If you need anything at this end just shout here or on Twitter @johnnewcombeuk.
Cheers!
John_Newcombe wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:48 pm
Will you be implementing telesoftware?
Definitely, that's a big part of the appeal. I haven't played around with TELSTAR telesoftware yet, apart from failing to get it working in Richard's client on a cursory try.

Couple of small things I noticed:
  1. Since themes, the footers say #page* instead of *page#
  2. Colossal Cave might not currently be working. The other two gateways are, though.
  3. The engineering test page is missing two Box End 0x8A chars on the bottom row - maybe your import tools are dropping them?
And some questions:
  1. Can you shed any light on how you are treating input after WILLing Richard's IAC DO SUPPRESS-GO-AHEAD? Do you throw away everything after an ENTER at the point you serve that page, or is it more complicated? I was wondering if this needed a sync point to tell the client to throw everything away after you threw your side away, so you don't end up processing the second half of some typeahead.
  2. Are you supporting any other telnet option negotiations?
Last edited by colonel32 on Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:33 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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John_Newcombe
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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by John_Newcombe » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:31 pm

Thanks for the bug reports. I am aware of the engineering page, I will look into the other issues.

In terms of the telnet protocol, T* does not implement the telnet protocol at all. The functionality was built in but has been turned off since launch.

J

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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by colonel32 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:37 pm

John_Newcombe wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:31 pm
In terms of the telnet protocol, T* does not implement the telnet protocol at all.
Yes, it doesn't really need it, does it. I started with some example telnet server code, and spent more time removing telnet features than if I'd started from scratch :D

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Re: Viewdata Service

Post by colonel32 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:38 pm

The reason I'm interested, is doing negotiated progressive feature enhancements. I want to use the environment variables to send out-of-band data. For example:
  • Some but not all of the ZX Spectrum Nexts have a RTC, so the server can query this, and then tell the client to display dynamic date and time at specific screen positions (like CEEFAX), or turn it off again if that's not applicable for a particular page. This would work with Richard's client too, which is what I'm prototyping most of this with. But the Next client with T* would ignore it, as would COMMSTAR and Richard's current client with the NXtel server.
  • The client can tell the server the day of the month (to allow for crossing midnight), then the server can tell the client whether that is Mon, Tue, Wed etc. As the RTC chip doesn't do that, and only knows about 2-digit years, this saves jumping through hoops calculating it in the client.
  • A routing enhancement that contains servers and ports in addition to page numbers. Which feeds through to a mouse hyperlink feature in the client (which would just be displayed as plain text if the option wasn't negotiated). All the Nexts have a ps/2 mouse, and sprites to use for the pointer, so this is a high value low cost feaure.
    Last edited by colonel32 on Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:52 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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