Using a Mac or PC for BBC games authoring

bbc micro/electron/atom/risc os coding queries and routines
User avatar
davidb
Posts: 2863
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:11 pm
Contact:

Re: Using a Mac or PC for BBC games authoring

Post by davidb » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:02 pm

It looks like BA5 is still available. ;)

User avatar
lurkio
Posts: 2893
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:30 am
Location: Doomawangara
Contact:

Re: Using a Mac or PC for BBC games authoring

Post by lurkio » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:13 pm

Well, here are some possibilities for a new filename extension for tokenised Acorn-format BBC BASIC files that I just dreamt up.

Everyone, please feel free to comment on them:

.chn (short for CHAIN)
.chain
.bbc8 (BBC 8-bit)
.bb8 (droid appeal)
.bbcacorn
.acornbasic
.E00 (old school)

:?:

User avatar
Richard Russell
Posts: 1668
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Downham Market, Norfolk
Contact:

Re: Using a Mac or PC for BBC games authoring

Post by Richard Russell » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:33 pm

davidb wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:02 pm
It looks like BA5 is still available. ;)
Haha, very good! A bit too easily mistaken for BAS methinks. :lol:

User avatar
Richard Russell
Posts: 1668
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Downham Market, Norfolk
Contact:

Re: Using a Mac or PC for BBC games authoring

Post by Richard Russell » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:37 pm

lurkio wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:13 pm
Well, here are some possibilities for a new filename extension for tokenised Acorn-format BBC BASIC files that I just dreamt up.
The format is also used by ARM BASIC, of course (indeed all of Sophie's BASICs from 1 to 6), so probably we don't want to tie it too closely to the 6502 machines.

User avatar
davidb
Posts: 2863
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:11 pm
Contact:

Re: Using a Mac or PC for BBC games authoring

Post by davidb » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:36 pm

Richard Russell wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:33 pm
davidb wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:02 pm
It looks like BA5 is still available. ;)
Haha, very good! A bit too easily mistaken for BAS methinks. :lol:
That was the idea. :twisted:

User avatar
Richard Russell
Posts: 1668
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Downham Market, Norfolk
Contact:

Re: Using a Mac or PC for BBC games authoring

Post by Richard Russell » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:32 pm

davidb wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:36 pm
That was the idea. :twisted:
More easily distinguished in lowercase I suppose: .bas, .ba5

User avatar
sa_scott
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:34 pm
Location: Witley, Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Using a Mac or PC for BBC games authoring

Post by sa_scott » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:33 pm

Hi all,

Thank you for all the recent posts. I'm having to write this in a hurry, as I have to leap onto something urgent.

having managed to get an SSD image working on WIndows, I have almost got it on the Mac.

I can't seem to get BeebEm or b2 to automatically reload the disc. In the case of BeebEm on the Mac, I get an error:

"The document “droid.ssd” could not be opened. BeebEm5 cannot open files in the “DocumentType” format."

I'm wondering what else I can do here. I'll need to read the thread properly in any case, but am currently stuck at this point.

Thanks in advance!
--
Stephen Scott, Digital Media Professional
www.sassquad.net

User avatar
BeebMaster
Posts: 3624
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:59 pm
Location: Lost in the BeebVault!
Contact:

Re: Using a Mac or PC for BBC games authoring

Post by BeebMaster » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:25 pm

I don't know how to work an Apple Mackintosh, I think you have to have the brainpower of Stephen Fry or Douglas Adams to do that, but that error sounds like the filetype extension hasn't been registered with a default application to open it. If that sort of system exists on Apples that is.
Image

User avatar
BigEd
Posts: 3422
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:24 am
Location: West
Contact:

Re: Using a Mac or PC for BBC games authoring

Post by BigEd » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:35 pm

lurkio wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:13 pm
Well, here are some possibilities for a new filename extension for tokenised Acorn-format BBC BASIC files that I just dreamt up.

Everyone, please feel free to comment on them:

.chn (short for CHAIN)
.chain
.bbc8 (BBC 8-bit)
.bb8 (droid appeal)
.bbcacorn
.acornbasic
.E00 (old school)

:?:
How about .abas?

User avatar
lurkio
Posts: 2893
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:30 am
Location: Doomawangara
Contact:

Re: Using a Mac or PC for BBC games authoring

Post by lurkio » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:07 pm

BigEd wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:35 pm
How about .abas?
I'm not so keen on any extensions that include or imply "bas" (as opposed to the complete word "basic") -- I'm talking about extenions like ".abas" or ".BA5" -- because to me ".bas" suggests that the file contains BASIC source-code in the form of plain text (thanks to established precedent), rather than tokenised BASIC.

But that's just my opinion. Feel free to ignore it!

:?:

User avatar
Richard Russell
Posts: 1668
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Downham Market, Norfolk
Contact:

Re: Using a Mac or PC for BBC games authoring

Post by Richard Russell » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:48 pm

lurkio wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:07 pm
But that's just my opinion. Feel free to ignore it!
I share it. I'd prefer to avoid an extension including 'bas'.

Trying a few possibilities at filext.com, .abb (Acorn BBC BASIC) appears not to be currently allocated to anything (and is marked as obsolete at file-extensions.org). Does that appeal?

User avatar
IanS
Posts: 1407
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:02 pm
Contact:

Re: Using a Mac or PC for BBC games authoring

Post by IanS » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:58 pm

BeebMaster wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:25 pm
I think you have to have the brainpower of Stephen Fry
So not much brainpower? https://www.theregister.com/2011/01/18/stephen_frytard/

User avatar
lurkio
Posts: 2893
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:30 am
Location: Doomawangara
Contact:

Re: Using a Mac or PC for BBC games authoring

Post by lurkio » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:10 pm

Richard Russell wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:48 pm
Trying a few possibilities at filext.com, .abb (Acorn BBC BASIC) appears not to be currently allocated to anything (and is marked as obsolete at file-extensions.org). Does that appeal?
Seems fine to me!

:idea:

tom_seddon
Posts: 426
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:42 am
Contact:

Re: Using a Mac or PC for BBC games authoring

Post by tom_seddon » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:24 pm

sa_scott wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:33 pm
having managed to get an SSD image working on WIndows, I have almost got it on the Mac.

I can't seem to get BeebEm or b2 to automatically reload the disc. In the case of BeebEm on the Mac, I get an error:

"The document “droid.ssd” could not be opened. BeebEm5 cannot open files in the “DocumentType” format."

I'm wondering what else I can do here. I'll need to read the thread properly in any case, but am currently stuck at this point.
If you direct b2 to open the disk image as a so-called "direct" disk image, it will reopen the image file for every byte. Any changes you make in BeebAsm will be immediately visible to the emulated Beeb (and, conversely, any changes you make in the emulated Beeb will be immediately reflected in the disk image contents). So no need to reload the disk - just switch to b2 and do a Shift+Break or whatever.

This works pretty well, but the "direct" wording isn't very clear - I hope to tidy this up at some point.

Regarding double clicking in Explorer or Finder, I never do this with Beeb stuff, so b2 really doesn't support this very well at all. You can - probably - I've never tried! - configure Finder or Explorer to run b2, but I suspect you'll get a new copy of b2 for every disk you click, which is silly. There's a open GitHub issue about this, so it won't get forgotten: https://github.com/tom-seddon/b2/issues/117

--Tom

User avatar
sa_scott
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:34 pm
Location: Witley, Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Using a Mac or PC for BBC games authoring

Post by sa_scott » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:40 pm

tom_seddon wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:24 pm
sa_scott wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:33 pm
having managed to get an SSD image working on WIndows, I have almost got it on the Mac.

I can't seem to get BeebEm or b2 to automatically reload the disc. In the case of BeebEm on the Mac, I get an error:

"The document “droid.ssd” could not be opened. BeebEm5 cannot open files in the “DocumentType” format."

I'm wondering what else I can do here. I'll need to read the thread properly in any case, but am currently stuck at this point.
If you direct b2 to open the disk image as a so-called "direct" disk image, it will reopen the image file for every byte. Any changes you make in BeebAsm will be immediately visible to the emulated Beeb (and, conversely, any changes you make in the emulated Beeb will be immediately reflected in the disk image contents). So no need to reload the disk - just switch to b2 and do a Shift+Break or whatever.

This works pretty well, but the "direct" wording isn't very clear - I hope to tidy this up at some point.

Regarding double clicking in Explorer or Finder, I never do this with Beeb stuff, so b2 really doesn't support this very well at all. You can - probably - I've never tried! - configure Finder or Explorer to run b2, but I suspect you'll get a new copy of b2 for every disk you click, which is silly. There's a open GitHub issue about this, so it won't get forgotten: https://github.com/tom-seddon/b2/issues/117

--Tom
Ah, I wasn't aware of that. Something to bear in mind.

I still need to work on the !Boot file issue, having read other posts in this thread, it's still clear as mud as to what I'm supposed to do. This really needs a deliberately verbose explanation as to how this works. Ideal for someone who can only spend 5-10 minutes testing this during 'family' time. :lol:
--
Stephen Scott, Digital Media Professional
www.sassquad.net

User avatar
sa_scott
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:34 pm
Location: Witley, Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Using a Mac or PC for BBC games authoring

Post by sa_scott » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:53 am

VectorEyes wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:09 am
Well done with building BeebAsm locally and creating SSDs!

BeebVSC is great (I have it installed) but yes, it's more for assembler than BASIC. In the end, I didn't use BeebVSC's 'build' and 'run' features. Instead I just used Visual Studio Code's 'tasks' feature.

I created some simple script files that could be called from the command line (e.g. from Terminal), one which did the build, and one which ran B2 and passed it the SSD.

I know this is a lot to take in... hope it's helpful. I've actually simplified this a bit because I didn't want to introduce the complication of the makefile-based build!
Thank you again for providing this information. I managed to finally use it yesterday, and I am now using VS Code to edit the game files, and use the shortcut to perform the build.

Additionally, I followed tom_seddon's suggestion of using Direct Disc Images with b2, which does actually work. I still have to re-CHAIN the file, but it re-runs with the amends of the latest build.

This is certainly a lot quicker. The only missing step is the building of the !boot file itself. I'm aware the -boot option creates one for you, but that is set to perform a *RUN on the file, which doesn't work for Basic. I cannot for the life of me, find where someone suggested being able to create a boot.txt file, and referring to it in the .asm file with BeebAsm uses. Either that, or all the requisite bits of information are in too many disparate places for me to make sense of it all.

Thank you to everyone else for contributing to this thread. I'll try and create a blog post of all of this, so new devs don't have to go through the same pain!
--
Stephen Scott, Digital Media Professional
www.sassquad.net

Post Reply

Return to “programming”