Gotek Bracket for Master Compact (3d printed?)

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c0burn
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Gotek Bracket for Master Compact (3d printed?)

Post by c0burn »

Hi there,

New member with a BBC master compact rescued from a relatives garage. I've recapped PSU and cleaned the floppy drive heads and it's working great.

Unfortunately, most of the original floppies have gone bad - some are fine but most are not - and it seems 3.5" disks for the compact are like hens teeth, so looking into Goteks. I assume I will need a DFS ROM fitting as well rather than ADFS to use a Gotek properly with downloaded images?

I've been reliably informed that an Amiga 2000 3d printed bracket like this one - https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2839697 - is a perfect fit for the master compact

However, it would need to be in black and without the Amiga logo (boo! hiss!) to look right

Anyone able to print one? Will be happy to pay for materials, time, postage..

Thanks!
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danielj
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Re: Gotek Bracket for Master Compact (3d printed?)

Post by danielj »

Looks to me like there's a non-logo'd version amongst the thingiverse files!

Yes, this should properly fit the compact, and electron plus 3!

d/
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1024MAK
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Re: Gotek Bracket for Master Compact (3d printed?)

Post by 1024MAK »

I can’t answer the question about the bracket.

On the subject of DFS vs. ADFS, it depends on the format the file was made with. ADFS can’t read DFS formats. The Gotek should be able to handle ADFS images (not actually tried this myself).

The standard file system for the Compact was obviously ADFS. But the standard for the BBC B was DFS. The Master 128 could use either. So unsurprisingly most games software was issued on DFS formatted disks... So it’s best to fit a suitable DFS ROM :wink:

Mark
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danielj
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Re: Gotek Bracket for Master Compact (3d printed?)

Post by danielj »

Gotek is fine with adfs. 👍
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jms2
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Re: Gotek Bracket for Master Compact (3d printed?)

Post by jms2 »

I fitted a Gotek to a Compact recently, but I didn't have any existing floppy drives or the complete front fascia of the machine, so I got a new fascia made with drive slots that were only 25mm high (not the original 32mm). This allowed me to use a standard Gotek case and a standard modern floppy drive to create a dual-drive setup. I added a DFS rom to the machine so now I can access both DFS and ADFS discs. DFS 2.45 from the BBC Master 128 works well.

In your case you will have a 32mm aperture so this bracket should work fine.

You might want to consider retaining the existing 3.5" drive, especially as it is working, and add the Gotek as a second drive. However, there are some pitfalls to this approach as I discovered.
c0burn
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Re: Gotek Bracket for Master Compact (3d printed?)

Post by c0burn »

Hi, Can you elaborate on the pitalls? Anyone selling DFS roms? If not, what's the cheapest source of a programmer and blank chips?
I'll need a new floppy cable too, the default one only has one connector. Acorn cheaped out there!
Thanks for all the responses so far
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jms2
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Re: Gotek Bracket for Master Compact (3d printed?)

Post by jms2 »

The cable is non-standard and has to be made up by hand. However, I think I have a spare one which I'd be happy to send you. Similarly, if I have a spare EPROM I could make you a DFS rom. There are also other members on here who could do it.

The pitfalls with the dual-drive setup are:

1) The fascia of the Compact has two holes in it, but one of the holes is covered by the aluminium front trim piece. To expose it requires some surgery - back in the 80s the whole trim piece was discarded and replaced by stickers as I understand it. You'd have to consider how you're going to do this.

2) More seriously, I found that a design fault in the Gotek drive means it can be unhappy sharing a floppy cable with another drive. This is because the outputs are buffered via a chip which is working outside its rated voltage ranges. Whilst you can get away with this using a single Gotek, when you have the Gotek plus something else on the floppy cable, it leads to corruption. The fix is to replace the buffer chip with a slightly different one, but it's a surface mounted component and so extracting the old one is tricky. I managed to do it using ordinary tools, but it was difficult and I wouldn't recommend it unless you like SMD soldering.

In reality, having two drives is not as useful as you might think. I did it because I was making a new fascia anyway, so it seemed like an obvious thing to do.
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Stwert
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Re: Gotek Bracket for Master Compact (3d printed?)

Post by Stwert »

If you don’t have one yet, I’d be happy to print you a bracket, and if you’re in need of a ROM burning, I can do that too.

I wouldn’t ask for anything, there’s only a few pennies worth of plastic involved.
I'll be highly medicated and my humour can be twisted, so when I offend you, its not intentional, honest :lol:
c0burn
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Re: Gotek Bracket for Master Compact (3d printed?)

Post by c0burn »

Stwert wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:07 pm
If you don’t have one yet, I’d be happy to print you a bracket, and if you’re in need of a ROM burning, I can do that too.

I wouldn’t ask for anything, there’s only a few pennies worth of plastic involved.
This is really generous, thank you. A guy on facebook has also offered to print me one, so I will see where that goes and let you know - but I will definitely take you up on that ROM offer!
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Stwert
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Re: Gotek Bracket for Master Compact (3d printed?)

Post by Stwert »

No worries, I can either do the ROM for you on it’s own, or if you’d rather wait a little and make sure the Facebook offer pans out, just in case I need to do both for you. Either way is fine, just let me know.
I'll be highly medicated and my humour can be twisted, so when I offend you, its not intentional, honest :lol:
c0burn
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Re: Gotek Bracket for Master Compact (3d printed?)

Post by c0burn »

jms2 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:46 pm
The cable is non-standard and has to be made up by hand. However, I think I have a spare one which I'd be happy to send you. Similarly, if I have a spare EPROM I could make you a DFS rom. There are also other members on here who could do it.

The pitfalls with the dual-drive setup are:

1) The fascia of the Compact has two holes in it, but one of the holes is covered by the aluminium front trim piece. To expose it requires some surgery - back in the 80s the whole trim piece was discarded and replaced by stickers as I understand it. You'd have to consider how you're going to do this.

2) More seriously, I found that a design fault in the Gotek drive means it can be unhappy sharing a floppy cable with another drive. This is because the outputs are buffered via a chip which is working outside its rated voltage ranges. Whilst you can get away with this using a single Gotek, when you have the Gotek plus something else on the floppy cable, it leads to corruption. The fix is to replace the buffer chip with a slightly different one, but it's a surface mounted component and so extracting the old one is tricky. I managed to do it using ordinary tools, but it was difficult and I wouldn't recommend it unless you like SMD soldering.

In reality, having two drives is not as useful as you might think. I did it because I was making a new fascia anyway, so it seemed like an obvious thing to do.
I realised I skipped over this, thanks for the clarifications. A cable would be brilliant, and once again thank you for the generosity shown on here - but I am thinking for now I am going to just run the Gotek alone and see how I get on. Is it possible to use the Gotek drive alone and switch between DFS and ADFS on the single drive?
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jms2
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Re: Gotek Bracket for Master Compact (3d printed?)

Post by jms2 »

Yes, that's no problem, just use *DISC for DFS and *ADFS for ADFS. You can even configure which one the machine boots up in as a default.

Having a single drive is the best option for you I think. Do you still want a dual drive cable anyway though?

This thread includes some photos of inside the machine which you may find useful: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18457

Oh, by the way, the original floppy drives from these machines are rare, and pretty much unobtainable. So don't throw away the one that you remove!
c0burn
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Re: Gotek Bracket for Master Compact (3d printed?)

Post by c0burn »

jms2 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:56 am
Yes, that's no problem, just use *DISC for DFS and *ADFS for ADFS. You can even configure which one the machine boots up in as a default.

Having a single drive is the best option for you I think. Do you still want a dual drive cable anyway though?

This thread includes some photos of inside the machine which you may find useful: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18457

Oh, by the way, the original floppy drives from these machines are rare, and pretty much unobtainable. So don't throw away the one that you remove!
That's a fab restoration job.

Don't worry, I won't be throwing it away! I'm hesitant to chop up the fascia for a dual drive setup, so will stick with putting the Gotek in for now and storing the original drive away.

Will a Gotek work with the original, and as you noted, "weird" floppy cable?
Last edited by c0burn on Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
c0burn
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Re: Gotek Bracket for Master Compact (3d printed?)

Post by c0burn »

Stwert wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:26 pm
No worries, I can either do the ROM for you on it’s own, or if you’d rather wait a little and make sure the Facebook offer pans out, just in case I need to do both for you. Either way is fine, just let me know.
I will let you know. Thank you again
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jms2
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Re: Gotek Bracket for Master Compact (3d printed?)

Post by jms2 »

c0burn wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:04 pm
Will a Gotek work with the original, and as you noted, "weird" floppy cable?
Yes, it definitely does.
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