Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

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sirmorris
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Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by sirmorris » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:39 am

I love the Rapid 60/40 solder. It cleans super easy with IPA, it doesn't smell and it's a joy to use. Great wetting and a lovely shine.

AND NOW THEY WONT SELL IT TO ME :cry: :cry: :cry:

Apparently you need to be a credit customer to be able to order it.
Screenshot 2020-07-04 at 08.35.05.png
I've applied for a credit account but not having a business any more I don't hold out much hope.

I have 80 ZXpand to build and no decent solder. I keep buying stuff in the hope I'll hit gold but I'm on my 3rd disappointng reel now.

Can anyone recommend a brand that has the qualities I outlined in the first paragraph? Or does some kind soul have a credit account and would be willing to act as an agent for me in the purchasing of afrementioned item?

Hopefully
Charlie

*edit* PS - I'd consider lead free if it has the good qualities I'm looking for,

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by Lardo Boffin » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:57 am

Good luck Charlie!!! There was a thread on here somewhere discussing the best solder - if I find it I will post a link.
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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by cmorley » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:13 am

Have you tried phoning them and speaking to a human? Say it is for repairing pre-2000 era computers and industrial equipment. :)

The PB-free Rapid brand solder has the same flux as the 60/40 you're trying to buy. I use if for everything I sell. Wets and flows a little less well than 60/40 but it is fine. Use a higher iron temperature.

I only use leaded solder now for prototypes & mostly because of the chance of rework.

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by sirmorris » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:47 am

Good tips, thanks!

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by scruss » Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:12 pm

It's because of this:
Please note: This product contains lead and rosin. As of 1st March 2018 the supply of solder containing lead at a concentration above the relevant limit as set out under Article 67 (by virtue of Annex XVII of the REACH regulation) is restricted to professional use only.
We recommend that schools use lead-free solder for all projects.
Might be time to look at lead-free. Rework is more difficult, it doesn't flow as easily and you really need a temperature-controlled iron, but it's not hard to learn.

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by jgharston » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:49 pm

Discussion on modern non-lead solders here:
http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/mic ... l#x190907B

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.32
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2020
>_

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by scruss » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:14 pm

That's a niche take, to put it mildly. SnCu is immensely unforgiving, and would put anyone trying it for the first time off soldering for life. I don't think a regular iron would soften it, let alone let it flow. SAC305 (96½% tin, 3% silver, and ½% copper) is the lead-free solder that's closest to working with leaded, and the one most RoHS assemblies use. Low-temperature lead-free (Sn42/Bi57/Ag1; melts at a very low 138 °C) sounds appealing, but I haven't found any locally. The only disadvantage of bismuth in solder is that the work must be rigorously lead-free: tin, lead and bismuth form an intermetallic that melts below 100°C. In other words: hot condition, chips fall off.

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by Ramtop » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:37 pm

I ran into this recently trying to order some solder from RS. Added it to the basket, confirmed the order... then they silently deleted the solder from the order and never shipped it. Happened three separate times, RS support ignored my email and eventually I had complain on twitter before they could be bothered to explain what was happening. I see they now flag up the restrictions on the product page for lead solder.

The REACH limitation on lead seems to me to have been though up by someone at the EU with no knowledge of electronics.
Gary

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by 1024MAK » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:51 pm

scruss wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:12 pm
It's because of this:
Please note: This product contains lead and rosin. As of 1st March 2018 the supply of solder containing lead at a concentration above the relevant limit as set out under Article 67 (by virtue of Annex XVII of the REACH regulation) is restricted to professional use only.
We recommend that schools use lead-free solder for all projects.
Might be time to look at lead-free. Rework is more difficult, it doesn't flow as easily and you really need a temperature-controlled iron, but it's not hard to learn.
Yeah, except some suppliers and some shops have a far more flexible interpretation of who they can sell to...

For example, this was taken in a shop in January this year:
70AAD9D3-C345-4D9A-9FF8-CA1178965739.jpeg
Solder on sale in a local shop
Have you tried CPC or Farnell?

Last time I needed some 60/40, I got some from CPC and they did not have any problem selling it to me.

I hit the same problem with Rapid last year. I think them having been taken over may have some bearing on their restrictions. Since the takeover, some of their ranges have changed and there have been some small changes to how the company is run.

Mark

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by danielj » Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:13 pm

Rapid told me to get knotted a year ago, CPC were fine :)
d.

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by Kazzie » Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:51 pm

I bought some 60/40 a few months back in anticipation of repairing some Archimedes machines. Knowing RS wouldn't sell it to me, and finding that Rapid wouldn't either, I bought from a source on eBay instead.
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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by sirmorris » Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:26 pm

Having had a Rapid cash account for years now I spoke to a very nice person who converted it to a credit account for me =D> The 'speak to a human' advice was top notch.

Thanks for the input everyone, especially re: unleaded. I don't think I'm about to change over yet, especially since it costs way more and comes with tricky caveats. I know leaded comes with the caveat of impending poisoning and death but I can live with that :lol:

I can now order quality solder with impunity. Top work Rapid!

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by scruss » Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:11 pm

sirmorris wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:26 pm
I know leaded comes with the caveat of impending poisoning and death but I can live with that :lol:
It's not you who has the problem. It's the folks who have to deal with your kit when it eventually gets scrapped that end up with the problem.

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by daveejhitchins » Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:22 pm

scruss wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:11 pm
sirmorris wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:26 pm
I know leaded comes with the caveat of impending poisoning and death but I can live with that :lol:
It's not you who has the problem. It's the folks who have to deal with your kit when it eventually gets scrapped that end up with the problem.
Well, that's perfectly correct - maybe in another 30 years (?), however, the amount "we-are" producing now pales into (almost) insignificance compared to what's already in the ground! And, a lot of military and telecom devices are still using leaded solder - and our contribution pales into insignificance compared to what they're producing - But still . . . .

Dave H :D

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by 1024MAK » Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:53 pm

I don’t think an expansion/interface using lead based solder is going to make much difference when the machine that it is for use with was also made using lead based solder.

Lead as a metal at typical ambient temperatures does not leach into water courses very much. The biggest problem with electronic and electrical equipment is the incorrect reprocessing that takes place (typically in third world countries).

So rather than the lead being the evil thing, the actual evil is people being too lazy or too cheap and not correctly disposing of their now unwanted electronic and electrical equipment.

Over the years, lead has been used in many things. For example:
  • Mains water pipes (including drinking water) in properties including homes.
  • Soldering of copper water pipes, again including drinking water supply pipes.
  • Lead windows.
  • Lead telecommunications cables (some of which are buried directly in the ground) and some of which are still in use.
  • Lead power cables, both underground and in properties including homes.
  • Lead acid cells and batteries (if you own a conventional car, you are very likely to have a lead acid battery in it).
  • Lead roofing, such as the joins between bricks and roof tiles/slates, or valley gutters or small areas of flat roofs.
And from the environmental standpoint, governments are doing very little in forcing manufacturers to make electronic and electrical equipment last a long time. People with money now see many electronic and electrical devices as disposable items that they only expect to last for only a couple of years. Instead of an item of value that is worthwhile having repaired.

If electronic and electrical devices lasted a lot longer, and the tax rules were changed to encourage economic repairs, with manufacturers not producing a new model every month, the amount of electronic and electrical devices in landfill or being exported as waste for reprocessing would drop drastically.

Mark

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by 1024MAK » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:01 pm

EB493515-209A-43AA-B0D3-53BE74F267E1.jpeg
Lead telecommunication cables, only taken out of use last year... Most were originally installed in 1969 to 1970.

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by Ramtop » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:40 pm

1024MAK wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:53 pm
If electronic and electrical devices lasted a lot longer, and the tax rules were changed to encourage economic repairs, with manufacturers not producing a new model every month, the amount of electronic and electrical devices in landfill or being exported as waste for reprocessing would drop drastically.
Absolutely. The short life spans of modern electronics and the waste mountain that creates is a huge, huge problem. Banning leaded solder seems to be to be verging on useless given the amount of lead involved, it makes dumped e-waste very, very slightly less toxic at the cost of making it harder to repair older equipment.

What the authorities should be doing, as a first step, is introducing comprehensive right to repair legislation. Manufacturers who do not have publicly available schematics, parts, software, etc, that's required for repair should have to pay a waste levy. Not much sign the EU is interested in this, but there's some progress in the US and hopefully the UK government can be persuaded to move in the right direction next year. Once a single large market does this it should be much easier for others to follow.
Gary

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by scruss » Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:41 pm

1024MAK wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:53 pm
Lead as a metal at typical ambient temperatures does not leach into water courses very much. The biggest problem with electronic and electrical equipment is the incorrect reprocessing that takes place (typically in third world countries).
Which is why China was one of the strongest advocates for RoHS: most of the badly-controlled electronics recycling will end up in China, and they very much didn't want the public health issue of uncontrolled and undocumented lead around the place.
Over the years, lead has been used in many things. For example: …
These are historical uses. No new houses have been built with lead pipes (though I grew up in one). Lead soldering for water has been banned for a long time. Lead-acid batteries have some of the best recycling rates in industry. Lead crystal is no longer for food use, and neither is leaded pewter for drinking vessels. Lead in petrol was straight-up evil, as was lead in paint: it was even recommended in nurseries for its "bright and hygienic" colours.

My wife used to work with adults with learning disabilities resulting from lead ingestion. It was bloody heartbreaking: imagine middle-aged six year olds, full of stories and make-believe but no learning, poor memory and terrible judgment. Most of them had received settlements from lead companies (this was in the US) but had signed away their rights to future payments after being taken out for a nice dinner by a lead industry representative.

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by anightin » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:59 pm

sirmorris wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:26 pm
Having had a Rapid cash account for years now I spoke to a very nice person who converted it to a credit account for me =D> The 'speak to a human' advice was top notch.

Thanks for the input everyone, especially re: unleaded. I don't think I'm about to change over yet, especially since it costs way more and comes with tricky caveats. I know leaded comes with the caveat of impending poisoning and death but I can live with that :lol:

I can now order quality solder with impunity. Top work Rapid!
Dear All,

By my reckoning, the number of retro projects I have left, or at least anticipate having left seem to exceed the amount of 'proper solder' I have. :(

RS recently told me I couldn't buy replacement solder of the same spec that I've been using for years.

Would someone be able to click an additional x1 reel of leaded solder next time they put in an order for themselves please?

Best wishes

Andy


Update: Just read more of the thread and have tried CPC now :)

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by tom_seddon » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:11 pm

It's not the requested brand, but you can get lead solder from https://www.cricklewoodelectronics.com/ ... grams.html

I also bought some from Amazon - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0001P0GLW - but it's rather expensive, even if it did arrive quickly.

Seems a bit easier to work with than the lead-free stuff I'm used to. I'm not a solder connoisseur though.

--Tom

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by sirmorris » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:56 am

I'm fairly certain now that the rapid solder is re-badged 'duratool' brand. The reels are identical pink. I bought a small amount to test and it's identical in use, too. Searching the bay of E for 'duratool solder wire' will get you the results 8)

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by anightin » Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:45 am

I went for QUALITEK 60/40 NC600 0.7MM as that’s what CPC had to offer.

Don’t know how this compares to the Duratool one so will have to give it a try.

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by Elminster » Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:56 am

I only used leaded for repairing retro machines, I have used unleaded for everything else for a decade. As long as you get it right first time it is not an issue ..... :) I can see why people use leaded for prototyping.

I usually use the more expensive branded unleaded Stuff as some of the cheaper stuff is horrid to use.I also use different think ness for amd and through hole. I will dig out what I current have later.

My leaded solder is the multicore I got via Tricky.

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by philpem » Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:22 pm

I picked up a reel of Kester 63/37 on ebay recently, from a seller in Poland. It's been sat on a shelf since the early 2000s, but damned if it isn't spot on perfect. I've got my last roll of Multicore sat on the ol' reel holder.

96SC is more or less my go-to for lead-free, and I have a complete second set of tips for the Metcal to avoid lead embrittlement (if you mix tin-lead and SAC/96SC, it can make the solder joints brittle).

Speaking of solder, my current 3D printing project is a fume extractor...

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Re: Rapid not selling 60/40 to general punters anymore?

Post by Elminster » Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:33 am

philpem wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:22 pm

Speaking of solder, my current 3D printing project is a fume extractor...
Fans and shrouds are definitely something you get a lot of experience of with 3D printing .... or gaming PCs. I must admit swapping fan out of my noisy dune extractor for something quieter has been on my list for a long time.

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