My Beeb inspection

discuss both original and modern hardware for the bbc micro/electron
Post Reply
User avatar
camsoft2000
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:44 am
Contact:

My Beeb inspection

Post by camsoft2000 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:13 pm

Hi Guys, I’m not new to the BBC Micro as I have fond memories of them at school in the 80’s but I’m pretty new when it comes to the hardware and mods etc.

Would someone mind taking at look at my photos and giving me a summary of my Beeb’s hardware, roms etc?

Only thing I can tell is that it has Acorn 0.9 DFS ROM, I assume that’s worth replacing with something a bit more versatile, Watford?

I’ve got a GotTek arriving shortly and this Beeb already has a working 5 1/4” Cumana drive.

Thanks in advance.
2D73EB6D-032C-41C4-AF34-81EF896F94E5.jpeg
AE9FB464-094D-4FA5-BBE3-CEB12CAA76BE.jpeg
FF3E185D-D3E2-4187-93BB-8A9C26F23C62.jpeg
5CD7EC09-8C38-458C-A445-EAD7E5D9D897.jpeg
9738532A-896A-4793-9625-1B0A3C807D08.jpeg
Attachments
5500D9D5-D2C2-4DFA-8934-775532BD8142.jpeg

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 7964
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:51 pm
Location: Manchester
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by danielj » Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:38 pm

It's a standard issue 7 beeb with an 8271 disc controller and DFS 0.9.

You can put DFS 1.2 in there - I don't think you'd get any advantage from the watford single density DFS... You could upgrade the controller to a 1770 (retroclinic do a kit) which would let you use the watford double density DFS, but nothing's distributed as double density so unless you were tinkering yourself there's little to be gained. Personally I'd probably leave as is and just swap 0.9 for 1.2..
d.

mark71
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:14 am
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by mark71 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:43 pm

Hi Camsoft2000

One thing has as the PSU been re-capped?. If not it will go pop at some point..... Happened to me with the Master, put the beeb back together after a complete re-cap kit from RetroClinic, worked a treat.

Mark.

User avatar
camsoft2000
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:44 am
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by camsoft2000 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:46 pm

Thanks guys, yes the PSU was recapped a few years ago after I bought it. Where would I get a DFS 1.2 ROM?

User avatar
rmbrowngr
Posts: 383
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:46 pm
Location: Dionysos, Greece
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by rmbrowngr » Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:58 pm

camsoft2000 wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:46 pm
Where would I get a DFS 1.2 ROM?
RetroClinic, for lots of Beeb related things.

Kenlowe has a ROM expansion board. The name escapes me now.
Richard B
Acorn Electrons issue 4 and 6, MRB, Plus 1, AP6, AP5, Pegasus 400, BeebSCSI, Gotek, Raspberry Pi, GoSDC MBE.
BBC B+ 64K (128K upgraded) with Duel OS, Raspberry Pi and Gotek.

User avatar
tricky
Posts: 4245
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:25 am
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by tricky » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:53 am

The ROMs are left to right OS, BASIC and DFS, so it would swap with the current DFS (2XDFS = 2Xmemory for DFS) the other two slots are spare and high priority. Priority comes in to play if you have two languages or sometimes utility ROMs where one tries to control (usually disable) another or which filing system you want to be the default.
I have a boobip 64KB EEPROM, which can very easily be programmed by the beeb, for one of the spare slots and 32K sideways RAM for the other (depending on the level of fiddling you are happy with, either DIY or boobip - from here, not ebay). You could then copy your DFS into the EEPROM, pull the old DFS EPROM and experiment to your hearts content.
Take a look at the new retro hardware list as other providers are available ;) and other projects, up to full RAM/ROM boards (with battery backup and real time clock IIRC). I like that the boobip ones are the size of a ROM and only have two flying leads and you can chain the leads which keeps things very tidy and leaves loads of room for air to circulate and heat to escape.

User avatar
flaxcottage
Posts: 4028
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:46 pm
Location: Derbyshire
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by flaxcottage » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:01 am

That looks a nice Beeb. Well done.

I can echo Tricky about the Boobip SWR stuff - it is excellent and extremely versatile. I went the whole hog and fitted two EEPROMs and two RAMs so that I can have all 16 ROMs populated if I want. That is almost certainly overkill but I use the Beeb for archiving work and therefore do have need of some more esoteric ROMs to help crack disk protection.

mdfs.net is an excellent source of BBC ROMs. Also check out flaxcottage.com too as there are some ROMs which are not on mdfs.net.
- John

Image

User avatar
camsoft2000
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:44 am
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by camsoft2000 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:02 am

rmbrowngr wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:58 pm
camsoft2000 wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:46 pm
Where would I get a DFS 1.2 ROM?
RetroClinic, for lots of Beeb related things.

Kenlowe has a ROM expansion board. The name escapes me now.
Thanks just bought one from Mark at retroclinc.

User avatar
camsoft2000
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:44 am
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by camsoft2000 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:10 am

tricky wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:53 am
The ROMs are left to right OS, BASIC and DFS, so it would swap with the current DFS (2XDFS = 2Xmemory for DFS) the other two slots are spare and high priority. Priority comes in to play if you have two languages or sometimes utility ROMs where one tries to control (usually disable) another or which filing system you want to be the default.
I have a boobip 64KB EEPROM, which can very easily be programmed by the beeb, for one of the spare slots and 32K sideways RAM for the other (depending on the level of fiddling you are happy with, either DIY or boobip - from here, not ebay). You could then copy your DFS into the EEPROM, pull the old DFS EPROM and experiment to your hearts content.
Take a look at the new retro hardware list as other providers are available ;) and other projects, up to full RAM/ROM boards (with battery backup and real time clock IIRC). I like that the boobip ones are the size of a ROM and only have two flying leads and you can chain the leads which keeps things very tidy and leaves loads of room for air to circulate and heat to escape.
That's really helpful, would rather just use an EEPROM that takes up one socket than having to solder in expansion boards, so will take a look at the Boobip as that sounds excellent. Can the EEPROM be programmed from the Beeb itself or do you need additional hardware?

How do I go about adding 32k sideways RAM?

Thanks.

User avatar
flaxcottage
Posts: 4028
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:46 pm
Location: Derbyshire
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by flaxcottage » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:11 am

Boobip.com. :lol:
- John

Image

User avatar
rmbrowngr
Posts: 383
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:46 pm
Location: Dionysos, Greece
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by rmbrowngr » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:17 am

As mentioned above the Retro Hardware list. https://elminster.github.io/hardware

The ROM\RAM expansion board I mentioned is Integra-B remake.
Richard B
Acorn Electrons issue 4 and 6, MRB, Plus 1, AP6, AP5, Pegasus 400, BeebSCSI, Gotek, Raspberry Pi, GoSDC MBE.
BBC B+ 64K (128K upgraded) with Duel OS, Raspberry Pi and Gotek.

User avatar
1024MAK
Posts: 9906
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:46 pm
Location: Looking forward to summer in Somerset, UK...
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by 1024MAK » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:34 am

Before going down the road of expanding/upgrading, I have to ask what you want from the machine? What do you intend using it for?

In terms of expanding/upgrading a Beeb, it would also be helpful to know if you have any experience with electronic hardware.

The images of many ‘ROMs’ are available on the Internet.

Jonathan (JGH) has lots of filing system versions on his web site. See here http://mdfs.net/System/ROMs/Filing/Disk/

Some details of the Acorn DFS versions are here and here.

Most people use an Acorn version because most software was written to work under Acorns DFS.

Acorn later introduced ADFS which has the disadvantage of needing more main memory for workspace so is not much liked on BBC systems. But is standard in the Acorn Electron Plus 3 disk system, and in the Archimedes range. BBC Master 128 machines have both DFS and ADFS included as standard.

Mark

User avatar
tricky
Posts: 4245
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:25 am
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by tricky » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:35 am

camsoft2000 wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:10 am
...Can the EEPROM be programmed from the Beeb itself or do you need additional hardware?...
Yes, that is the expected way to program them.
Mine (and expect all) come with a utils ROMFS ROM in each slot that has the utils on it, so you are ready to do if you have a way of getting ROM images onto the machine.
Chris (cmorley - boobip) If you are listening, it might be good to make one of them DFS and one SmartSPI just to save some one some fiddling if they are replacing one of those two ROMS (I know it means a little more fiddling for you). They should be disabled by default ;) Quote is just to Notify Chris.
cmorley wrote:

User avatar
camsoft2000
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:44 am
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by camsoft2000 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:35 am

flaxcottage wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:11 am
Boobip.com. :lol:
Haha I meant what’s involved in adding it, is it just a matter of plonking a chip in or more elaborate?

User avatar
1024MAK
Posts: 9906
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:46 pm
Location: Looking forward to summer in Somerset, UK...
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by 1024MAK » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:48 am

You can either fit SRAM chips, EPROM, and / or EEPROM chips yourself. And if you want, you can do a small amount of wiring to enable each of the four sockets to be able to access 64K bytes as four 16K byte banks. Or you can buy and plug in modules or expansion boards.

Which route?

Mark

User avatar
tricky
Posts: 4245
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:25 am
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by tricky » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:51 am

Plonk a chip in and attach two wires with small clips to two legs on chips, additional boards can daisy chain and plug into the previous board.
From his web-site:ImageThese are for a different upgrade, but you get the idea.

PS I'm not on commission and as I and others have said, there are other options and other suppliers, I just find these the neatest ;)
I don't think you will ever be disappointed with RetroClinic service or parts either, or any of the other *. regulars.

User avatar
camsoft2000
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:44 am
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by camsoft2000 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:39 am

I’m going to try the Boobip ERPROM and sideways ram kits as they seem like the least destructive options and are easily removable and I don’t need a degree in electrical engineering haha.

Thanks for all the advice.

User avatar
camsoft2000
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:44 am
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by camsoft2000 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:54 am

tricky wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:51 am
Plonk a chip in and attach two wires with small clips to two legs on chips, additional boards can daisy chain and plug into the previous board.
From his web-site:ImageThese are for a different upgrade, but you get the idea.

PS I'm not on commission and as I and others have said, there are other options and other suppliers, I just find these the neatest ;)
I don't think you will ever be disappointed with RetroClinic service or parts either, or any of the other *. regulars.
Agreed, used RetroClinic in the past and they have been excellent.

User avatar
flaxcottage
Posts: 4028
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:46 pm
Location: Derbyshire
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by flaxcottage » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:28 pm

The instructions downloaded from Boobip.com are great, completely explicit and designed for newbies (he says from practical experience :wink: )

The only real thing to watch out for is that the pins on the carrier boards are aligned properly before pushing home the boards into the sockets. The pins don't take kindly to bending (he says from practical experience :( )

It is also a good idea to plan in which sockets you will have RAM and EEPROM. If you need two consecutive RAM slots for Interword, for example, you will need two 32K RAM/ROM boards in adjacent sockets on the BBC. Planning first and inserting second will avoid removing the carrier boards. Without proper tools that is a difficult task to do without bending pins (he says from practical experience :wink: )
- John

Image

User avatar
1024MAK
Posts: 9906
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:46 pm
Location: Looking forward to summer in Somerset, UK...
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by 1024MAK » Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:53 am

camsoft2000 wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:39 am
I’m going to try the Boobip ERPROM and sideways ram kits as they seem like the least destructive options and are easily removable and I don’t need a degree in electrical engineering haha.
I would say good luck, but with Chris’s BooBip modules, you should not need luck :D They are excellent (I have some myself).

If you do experience problems, the biggest source of problems is the IC sockets on the main board. Especially if chips (or worse, expansion boards with pins that fit in a ROM socket) have been removed and reinserted a number of times. Sometimes one or more socket contacts may get bent or loose their springiness. A faulty connection can cause all kinds of weird symptoms.

Have fun :D

Mark

User avatar
camsoft2000
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:44 am
Contact:

Re: My Beeb inspection

Post by camsoft2000 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:09 am

Appreciate the advice I will take extra care when bedding the boards/chips. My Beeb looks pretty untouched since it left the school so hopefully, the sockets are in a good state.

Can't wait for the bits and bobs now!

Post Reply

Return to “8-bit acorn hardware”