MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

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Wheel_nut
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MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by Wheel_nut » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:34 pm

This thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17780 discusses SD Card storage on the Printer Port of the Electron which I understand does not have a User Port as standard.

Thinking out aloud, It would seem easy to remove IC70 and use its socket as a patch panel to output the four 6522 lines (and +Vcc) required to the Printer connector. That would be the easy bit ...

Since the control of the Printer Port half of the VIA is handled by the Operating System, would it be insurmountable to re-direct these to MMFS?

The reason fot my interest in attaching the storage to the Printer port is that I use an EPROM Programmer on the User Port and have to resort to the Floppy Disk for ROM Image data. Not a big deal but less elegant than retrieving it from the BEEB.MMB capsule.

I also suspect that I am not alone in having no use for the Printer Port on the Beeb any more.
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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by hoglet » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:14 pm

I think this would be eminantly possible...

The SD Card hardware needs two output signals and one input signal. It's the input signal that's slightly problematic, because when the OS programs the 6522's Port A DDR (data direction register) as "all outputs" it would create a conflict with the SD Card's MISO output. So you might have to allow for this by including a resistor in-between the two.

Looking at MOS 1.20, the &FE63 (DDR A) is only written once, in the reset code (at address &DA50)
http://mdfs.net/Docs/Comp/BBC/OS1-20/D940

As far as MMFS is concerned, a new "driver" file would be needed, which would be quite similar to the Electron printer port version:
https://github.com/hoglet67/MMFS/blob/m ... kPlus1.asm

The end result will be a bit slower than the normal version of MMFS, as it's not possible to use the 6522's shift register. But for most people this won't be an issue.

I wonder if IC70 is socketed on all Model Bs?

Edit: I checked both my Issue 7 Beebs, and IC70 is unfortunately soldered in. So it would need snipping out, and replacing with a socket.

Shame it's not easy to use CA1 as a normal input....

Dave
Last edited by hoglet on Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by Wheel_nut » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:01 pm

hoglet wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:14 pm
I think this would be eminantly possible...

The SD Card hardware needs two output signals and one input signal. It's the input signal that's slightly problematic, because when the OS programs the 6522's Port A DDR (data direction register) as "all outputs" it would create a conflict with the SD Card's MISO output. So you might have to allow for this by including a resistor in-between the two.

Looking at MOS 1.20, the &FE63 (DDR A) is only written once, in the reset code (at address &DA50)
http://mdfs.net/Docs/Comp/BBC/OS1-20/D940

As far as MMFS is concerned, a new "driver" file would be needed, which would be quite similar to the Electron printer port version:
https://github.com/hoglet67/MMFS/blob/m ... kPlus1.asm

The end result will be a bit slower than the normal version of MMFS, as it's not possible to use the 6522's shift register. But for most people this won't be an issue.
Hi Dave, I am encouraged by your analysis though I don't have the necessary skills to contribute to the coding required. I can however blow EPROMS (or test in SWRAM) and put it through its paces for testing if you decide to do it.
I wonder if IC70 is socketed on all Model Bs?

Edit: I checked both my Issue 7 Beebs, and IC70 is unfortunately soldered in. So it would need snipping out, and replacing with a socket.
I have Sockets and a small supply of 74LS244 modules so would be glad to send you what you need or rework your board if you prefer that. If it is only one pin, it may be easier to just cut that leg and jumper it back if needing to use a Printer.

I also have a spare SD Card Adapter and cable so can make up and send you the hardware to plug into the Printer Port.
Shame it's not easy to use CA1 as a normal input....

Dave
Would it be easier to wire the Three signals and Vcc required to the unused pins 21, 23, 25 & 26?
Last edited by Wheel_nut on Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by hoglet » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:59 pm

Wheel_nut wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:01 pm
Hi Dave, I am encouraged by your analysis though I don't have the necessary skills to contribute to the coding required. I can however blow EPROMS (or test in SWRAM) and put it through its paces for testing if you decide to do it.
The software is actually very straightforward - I'll have a play over the next couple of days.
Wheel_nut wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:01 pm
I have Sockets and a small supply of 74LS244 modules so would be glad to send you what you need or rework your board if you prefer that. If it is only one pin, it may be easier to just cut that leg and jumper it back if needing to use a Printer.

I also have a spare SD Card Adapter and cable so can make up and send you the hardware to plug into the Printer Port.
Thanks for the offer, but I have plenty of sockets, LS244s, and SD Card adapters.
Wheel_nut wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:01 pm
Would it be easier to wire the Three signals and Vcc required to the unused pins 21, 23, 25 & 26?
I'm thinking the following hybrid scheme might work quite nicely:

Code: Select all

SDCARD      Printer Port    Notes
------      ------------    -----

   VCC  === Pin 26          Wire to +5V
  MISO  ==> Pin 25          Wire to IC70 Pin 2 (PA7 input) via 330R resistor
   SCK  <== Pin 5           PA1 output (via IC70)
    CS  <== Pin 4           GND
  MOSI  <== Pin 3           PA0 output (via IC70)
   GND  === Pin 2           GND
With this scheme there is no need to remove IC70.

Dave

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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by Wheel_nut » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:02 pm

hoglet wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:59 pm
I'm thinking the following hybrid scheme might work quite nicely:

Code: Select all

SDCARD      Printer Port    Notes
------      ------------    -----

   VCC  === Pin 26          Wire to +5V
  MISO  ==> Pin 25          Wire to IC70 Pin 2 (PA7 input) via 330R resistor
   SCK  <== Pin 5           PA1 output (via IC70)
    CS  <== Pin 4           GND
  MOSI  <== Pin 3           PA0 output (via IC70)
   GND  === Pin 2           GND
With this scheme there is no need to remove IC70.

Dave
Would it be just as easy to use PA7 and PA6 rather than PA0 and PA 1 for MOSI and SCK as it would make it easier (neater) to connect the cable to the SD Card Adapter as all the pins would be at the LHS of the Cable and approximately in sequence to match the SD Card adapter?

Code: Select all

SDCARD      Printer Port    Notes
------      ------------    -----

   VCC  === Pin 26          Wire to +5V
  MISO  ==> Pin 25          Wire to IC70 Pin 2 (PA7 input) via 330R resistor
   SCK  <== Pin 15          PA6 output (via IC70)
    CS  <== Pin 16          GND
  MOSI  <== Pin 17          PA7 output (via IC70)
   GND  === Pin 24          GND
Robin
Last edited by 1024MAK on Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Tidy up quotation
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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by hoglet » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:19 pm

Wheel_nut wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:02 pm
Would it be just as easy to use PA7 and PA6 rather than PA0 and PA 1 for MOSI and SCK as it would make it easier (neater) to connect the cable to the SD Card Adapter as all the pins would be at the LHS of the Cable and approximately in sequence to match the SD Card adapter?
I've given this a bit more thought....

The current Elk printer port MMFS "driver" uses some tricks to improve performance that I was hoping to carry forward.

Here's the write byte function:

Code: Select all

.P1_WriteByte
{
    ASL A
FOR N, 0, 7
    ROL A
    AND #&FD
    STA data%
    ORA #clockbit%
    STA data%
NEXT
    RTS
}
This works because SCK is bit 1 and MOSI is bit 0, and the transmission bit order is 7....0.

I can't think of an efficient way of doing this if bits 7 and 6 were used instead.

Here's the read byte function:

Code: Select all

.P1_ReadByte
    LDA #one_clockhigh%
    LDX #one_clocklow%
FOR n, 0, 7
    STX data%
    STA data%
    ROL status%
    ROL sr%
NEXT
    LDA sr%
    RTS
This works because MISO is bit 7, and the status register is read only.

This will need re-writing anyway, as doing ROL on the 6522 ORIRA is not going to work well.

Let me think some more....

Dave
Last edited by hoglet on Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by Wheel_nut » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:45 pm

hoglet wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:19 pm

I've given this a bit more thought....

The current Elk printer port MMFS "driver" uses some tricks to improve performance that I was hoping to carry forward.

Here's the write byte function:

Code: Select all

.P1_WriteByte
{
    ASL A
FOR N, 0, 7
    ROL A
    AND #&FD
    STA data%
    ORA #clockbit%
    STA data%
NEXT
    RTS
}
[code]
This works because SCK is bit 1 and MOSI is bit 0, and the transmission bit order is 7....0.

I can't think of an efficient way of doing this is bits 7 and 6 were used.
   
Here's the read byte function:
[code]
.P1_ReadByte
    LDA #one_clockhigh%
    LDX #one_clocklow%
FOR n, 0, 7
    STX data%
    STA data%
    ROL status%
    ROL sr%
NEXT
    LDA sr%
    RTS
This works because MISO is bit 7, and the status register is read only.

This will need re-writing anyway, as doing ROL on the 6522 ORIRA is not going to work well.

Let me think some more....

Dave
Hi Dave, It isn't that important and if you are re-using Elk Code, there is no point in maintaining two similar pieces of code. It is much easier to make the original connection schema on the cable. I naively thought it was simple to switch the Bits! #-o
Robin
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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by tricky » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:33 am

I haven't llooked at the code, but SmartSPI will work with b01, b23, b45 or b67. Maybe Duikkie did something clever, If not, I've never even noticed the difference.
#-o But I practically never write and what I did was years ago and on a turbo mmc!
Last edited by tricky on Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by duikkie » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:34 am

duikkie is clever :shock: :o :^o #-o :lol:
tricky wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:33 am
I haven't llooked at the code, but SmartSPI will work with b01, b23, b45 or b67. Maybe Duikkie did something clever, If not, I've never even noticed the difference.
#-o But I practically never write and what I did was years ago and on a turbo mmc!

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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by hoglet » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:07 pm

I've done some work on this today..

First, the modifications required to the Beeb, namely:
- Connect pin 25 of the printer port to IC70 pin 2 (Port A D7) via a 330R resistor
- Connect pin 26 of the printer port to +5V

I made these mods on the underside of one of my Model Bs with 30awg blue kynar wire:
IMG_1750.JPG
IMG_1751.JPG
Then I wired up a MMC interface with the following connections:

Code: Select all

SDCARD      Printer Port    Notes
------      ------------    -----

   VCC  === Pin 26          Wire to +5V
  MISO  ==> Pin 25          Wire to IC70 Pin 2 (PA7 input) via 330R resistor
   GND  === Pin 6           GND
   SCK  <== Pin 5           PA1 output (via IC70)
    CS  <== Pin 4           GND
  MOSI  <== Pin 3           PA0 output (via IC70)
IMG_1752.JPG
IMG_1753.JPG
IMG_1755.JPG
I've added a Beeb Printer Port "driver" to MMFS:
https://github.com/hoglet67/MMFS/blob/m ... rinter.asm
This compiles to the "P" subdirectory, and at the moment it just builds the Model B MMFS versions (i.e. not Elk or Master).

The read byte function ended up pretty optional, as I was able to combine a couple of instructions.

Code: Select all

.P1_ReadByte
    LDA #&FF    
    LDX #one_clocklow%
    SEC          \\ Set carry so D0 (MOSI) remains high after ROL
FOR n, 0, 7
    STX iora%    \\ Take clock (D1) low
    ROL iora%    \\ Sample D7 (MISO) into C, and take clock (D1) high
    ROL A        \\ C=1 after this, because A starts off as FF
NEXT
    RTS
If anyone can improve on this, then I'll buy you a beer or two!

And here's it actually running:
capture0.png
Finally, here's some quick performance tests:
- User Port: Saving 16KB takes 1.60s
- User Port: Loading 16KB takes 0.43s
- Printer Port: Saving 16KB takes 1.60s
- Printer Port: Loading 16KB takes 1.65s

So as you can see, it's ~4x slower at loading than the user port version which uses the 6522 shifter register.

But it's still very much usable.

Dave
Last edited by hoglet on Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by Wheel_nut » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:18 pm

WOW! That was quick! I am still trying to digest this...
hoglet wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:07 pm
I've done some work on this today..

First, the modifications required to the Beeb, namely:
- Connect pin 25 of the printer port to IC70 pin 2 (Port A D7) via a 330R resistor
- Connect pin 26 of the printer port to +5V
I am off to do the modification on my Motherboard ...

Code: Select all

SDCARD      Printer Port    Notes
------      ------------    -----

   VCC  === Pin 26          Wire to +5V
  MISO  ==> Pin 25          Wire to IC70 Pin 2 (PA7 input) via 330R resistor
   GND  === Pin 6           GND
   SCK  <== Pin 5           PA1 output (via IC70)
    CS  <== Pin 4           GND
  MOSI  <== Pin 3           PA0 output (via IC70)
I will be using a MicroSD Card adapter wired up as above
I've added a Beeb Printer Port "driver" to MMFS:
https://github.com/hoglet67/MMFS/blob/m ... rinter.asm
This compiles to the "P" subdirectory, and at the moment it just builds the Model B MMFS versions (i.e. not Elk or Master).
Did you save the ROM Image file? I don't have the ability to compile the code...
So as you can see, it's ~4x slower at loading than the user port version which uses the 6522 shifter register.

But it's still very much usable.

Dave
Performance will be perfectly acceptable for my application.
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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by hoglet » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:32 pm

Wheel_nut wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:18 pm
Did you save the ROM Image file? I don't have the ability to compile the code...
It's included in release 1.42 which I've just uploaded.
https://github.com/hoglet67/MMFS/releas ... mfs_1_42_0

I'm sure there will be bugs, in which case release 1.43 will follow quite quickly!

Dave

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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by Wheel_nut » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:00 am

hoglet wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:32 pm

It's included in release 1.42 which I've just uploaded.
https://github.com/hoglet67/MMFS/releas ... mfs_1_42_0

I'm sure there will be bugs, in which case release 1.43 will follow quite quickly!

Dave
OK. Release 1.43 downloaded; Two Motherboards modified; Cable and SD Card adapter built and ready to test once the Sun comes up. :D The cable connections worked out very well and when I get some more cable and plugs, I will make it small enough to fit in the cable recess under the Beeb.

It will probably have to wait until later tomorrow as the XYL says that the visit of my Daughter and Grandson takes priority. :o :roll:

Thank you Dave for indulging my wish. I will report my experience ...
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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by Wheel_nut » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:48 pm

OK. IT WORKS! =D> =D>

I am running P/MMFS 1.42 in Sideways RAM Bank 11 (B) and the MicroSD adapter with a 2GB Class 4 Card connected as specified sbove. Yes, it is perceptably slower than the User Port connected adapter but only noticeable when loading the STH Main Menu. After that, everything seems to perform identically to the User Port device.

I am going to continue to use P/MMFS 1.42 in Sideways RAM for some time just in case we find any defects. Whereas I have an EPROM Programmer, I don't have a UV Eraser so am accumulating a pile of EPROMS needing erasing.

I can see that there is an MMFSDBG image in the P ssd but what are MMFS2 and MMFS3? Is there something there that I should be testing?

Dave, You are a STAR and I cannot express how delighted I am to have this working as I can now disconnect my Floppy Drives which I have only been using when I need to use the User Port. Thank You so much =D> =D> :D

Robin
Last edited by Wheel_nut on Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by hoglet » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:01 pm

Wheel_nut wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:48 pm
I can see that there is an MMFSDBG image in the P ssd but what are MMFS2 and MMFS3? Is there something there that I should be testing?
MMFS2 and MMFS3 are just versions with the 6522 at different addresses. So no need to test them. They are unlikely to be ever be used.
Wheel_nut wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:48 pm
Dave, You are a STAR and I cannot express how delighted I am to have this working as I can now disconnect my Floppy Drives which I have only been using when I need to use the User Port. Thank You so much =D> =D> :D
You are most welcome, it's been a fun little project.

Dave
Last edited by hoglet on Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by Wheel_nut » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:32 am

Hi Dave,
Question: I am running with P/MMFS in Sideways RAM. Does MMFS use Sideways RAM for its workspace or does it use Main RAM?

I ask because I have had a couple of "Bad Sum" errors aster switching between Floppy Disk and P/MMFS thus:
*OPT 5,1
*DISK
*. ..... etc.
*MMFS
*.
Bad Sum

I realise that this may be a badly behaved DFS and I am able to recover with a CTRL-BREAK so not a biggie!

Any plan to release a P/SWMMFS and/ or a P/ZMMFS in a future release? [-o<

Robin
Last edited by Wheel_nut on Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by hoglet » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:22 pm

Wheel_nut wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:32 am
Question: I am running with P/MMFS in Sideways RAM. Does MMFS use Sideways RAM for its workspace or does it use Main RAM?
P/MMFS uses main RAM for workspace (PAGE will be &1900).
Wheel_nut wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:32 am
I ask because I have had a couple of "Bad Sum" errors aster switching between Floppy Disk and P/MMFS thus:
*OPT 5,1
*DISK
*. ..... etc.
*MMFS
*.
Bad Sum

I realise that this may be a badly behaved DFS and I am able to recover with a CTRL-BREAK so not a biggie!
Remind me what DFS you are using?

There should not have been a backward step here, so let me know if you think this has been.
Wheel_nut wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:32 am
Any plan to release a P/SWMMFS and/ or a P/ZMMFS in a future release? [-o<
In the 1.43 build I included the version that use SWRAM for workspace (PAGE will be &E00).

The file is P/SWMMFS.

This is untested.

P/ZMMFS could also be added if needed as well.

Dave

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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by Wheel_nut » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:06 pm

hoglet wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:22 pm
Remind me what DFS you are using?
I am using Solidisk's DFS2.2M Issue 2 because it works with both the 8271 and 1770 Controllers.
There should not have been a backward step here, so let me know if you think this has been.
No, I have always tested with MMFS in Sideways RAM so just never encountered it before.
In the 1.43 build I included the version that use SWRAM for workspace (PAGE will be &E00).

The file is P/SWMMFS.

This is untested.

P/ZMMFS could also be added if needed as well.

Dave
Thank you Dave, I will test P/SWMMFS and report back. Yes Please, I would use P/ZMMFS if available.

Robin
Last edited by Wheel_nut on Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by hoglet » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:24 pm

Wheel_nut wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:06 pm
Thank you Dave, I will test P/SWMMFS and report back.
Great, there are simply too many builds for me to test each and every one in every release.

So it really helps if people try these out and report problems.
Wheel_nut wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:06 pm
Yes Please, I would use P/ZMMFS if available.
That's added now and an updated 1.43 release package published:
https://github.com/hoglet67/MMFS/releases

Again, this is untested....

Dave
Last edited by hoglet on Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by Wheel_nut » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:39 pm

hoglet wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:22 pm
In the 1.43 build I included the version that use SWRAM for workspace (PAGE will be &E00).

The file is P/SWMMFS.

This is untested.

P/ZMMFS could also be added if needed as well.

Dave
"This is untested." ... Not any more :D I have tested P/SWMMFS and of course, it works perfectly for me. I also tested the switching between Floppy Disk and MMFS and after 10 switches, it didn't give me a "Bad Sum" error. I will use this in SWRAM until you release P/ZMMFS and then blow that into an EPROM. :D =D>

Robin
#1 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 1770 DFS + Dual TEAC Floppy
#2 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Dual Floppy + Speech
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hoglet
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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by hoglet » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:06 pm

Wheel_nut wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:39 pm
I will use this in SWRAM until you release P/ZMMFS and then blow that into an EPROM. :D =D>
That should be there now as well.

Dave

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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by Wheel_nut » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:18 pm

hoglet wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:24 pm
Wheel_nut wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:06 pm
Yes Please, I would use P/ZMMFS if available.
[/quote=hoglet post_id=247220 time=1567783456 user_id=9657]
That's added now and an updated 1.43 release package published:
https://github.com/hoglet67/MMFS/releases

Again, this is untested....

Dave
Hi Dave,

The ZMMFS.rom file is in the P Directory but there is no ZMMFS.inf file and the ZMMFS.rom file is not in the mmfs.ssd capsule so I am having difficulty in getting the ZMMFS.rom file on to the SD Card. Is there an easy way to do this?

Robin
#1 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 1770 DFS + Dual TEAC Floppy
#2 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Dual Floppy + Speech
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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by hoglet » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:32 pm

Wheel_nut wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:18 pm
The ZMMFS.rom file is in the P Directory but there is no ZMMFS.inf file and the ZMMFS.rom file is not in the mmfs.ssd capsule so I am having difficulty in getting the ZMMFS.rom file on to the SD Card. Is there an easy way to do this?
Are you trying to load the ZMMFS.rom into sideways RAM?

The reason it's not included automatically in the .ssd image is we assumed (possibly wrongly) that the only thing people would want to do with it is to blow it into an EPROM on a PC (for which the .rom file would suffice). It was dropped to save space, as some of the .ssd files are very full.

In the meantime, you could just rename one of the other .inf files.

Dave
Last edited by hoglet on Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by Wheel_nut » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:54 pm

hoglet wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:32 pm
Are you trying to load the ZMMFS.rom into sideways RAM?

The reason it's not included automatically in the .ssd image is we assumed (possibly wrongly) that the only thing people would want to do with it is to blow it into an EPROM. It was dropped to save space, as some of the .ssd files are very full.

In the meantime, you could just rename one of the other .inf files.

Dave
No, In order to Blow a ROM, I need to get the ZMMFS.rom file on to the Beeb because my EPROM Programmer runs on the Beeb User Port.

I am using the MMBImager and its DFSImager to add the ssd to the SD Card and that works easily. Adding a single file to the ssd requires opening the ssd in the DFSImager window and then dragging and dropping the file from the Windows Explorer window to the DFSImager window. I have tried copying and renaming one of the other .inf files (and the Filename in the .inf File) but cannot get it to drag and drop.

What am I doing wrong?
Robin
#1 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 1770 DFS + Dual TEAC Floppy
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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by hoglet » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:00 pm

Wheel_nut wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:54 pm
What am I doing wrong?
I don't know, but I use DFS Explorer to manually create .ssd files on Windows, not DFS Imager.

Anyway, here's a .ssd file containing P/ZMMFS:
zmmfs.ssd
(16.5 KiB) Downloaded 26 times
I'll try to figure out a way to make space to include these again in the pre-built .ssd files.

Edit: link to DFS Explorer: https://www.g7jjf.com/dfs_explorer.htm. You don't need a .inf file at all with this program, as it has a menu option to set the load/exec addresses manually.

Dave
Last edited by hoglet on Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by Wheel_nut » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:24 pm

OK... Got it and downloaded to the SD Card. Off to find a Blank EPROM and test P/ZMMFS. Will report back by updating this Post to save Forum space. ... Robin

Update: Tested with DFS2.2M2 in Bank 2; P/ZMMFS in Bank 6; Basic2 in Bank 10(A). On Boot-up, MMFS loaded into Sideways RAM Bank 15(F) and was the default Filing system with Drive 0 and Disk 0 as current devices. I switched between MMFS and the DFS several times without error and the DFS2.2M2 seems NOT to trample on MMFS workspace (which of couse is in Sideways RAM).

After a Ctrl-Break and Shift-Break, the STH Menu loaded and I was able to select Programs and ran Aviator and Arcadians a few times without problem. I will do some more testing in daylight and report any errors here.

As an aside, I was able to blow the EPROM using the EPROM Programmer on the User Port and the MMFS SD Card on the Printer Port. The Floppy Disk Drives were attached but not used to load the ROM mage file. This was with P/SWMMFS manually loaded into Sideways RAM Bank 15(F) and the UVP1.1 EPROM Programmer Software loaded to Sideways RAM Bank 11(B).

Dave, Thank you for the linky to the DFS Explorer software which I will download and instal. This will save me lots of frustration in trying to get Files and Programs downloaded from the net which are not already encapsulated in SSD form. Thank you for your patience in getting me past that hurdle :oops:

Robin
Last edited by Wheel_nut on Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
#1 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 1770 DFS + Dual TEAC Floppy
#2 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Dual Floppy + Speech
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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by 1024MAK » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:31 pm

We prefer new posts if there is new information, that way the new post shows up as unread in the indexes.

Mark

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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by CMcDougall » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:53 pm

use SteveO FS manager, it does not require .INF files, brilliant prog :
FS Manager v0.4.1
https://www.stairwaytohell.com/essentia ... v0.4.1.zip
:D
ImageImageImage

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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by Wheel_nut » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:46 am

Just to close off some loose ends:

Dave, The reason that I couldn't copy the ZMMFS.ROM from the download to the BEEB.MMB using MMBImager appears to have been a Windows 10 "feature". My Windows PC had an update pending a re-boot and this appeared to be inhibiting the operation. Once I let the PC re-boot, I could drag and drop the ZMMFS.ROM file (with its patched .inf file) from Windows Explorer to DFSImager.

Mark, I understand the need to add new information in a new post rather than update an earlier one and will do this in future.

CMcDougall, Thank you for the tip and the linky to FS Manager which works perfectly after the re-boot and installation of the Windows 10 Update. Excellent Program :D

And of course, I can report that P/MMFS is working perfectly for me and I have no bugs to report.

Robin
#1 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 1770 DFS + Dual TEAC Floppy
#2 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Dual Floppy + Speech
#3 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Cumana Single Floppy + PiTubeDirect on KenLowe's Tube Level Shifter

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Re: MMFS SD Card on the BBC B Printer Port?

Post by hoglet » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:41 am

Glad everything is now working well, that's for reporting back to us.

Dave

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