Elk disc controllers

discuss both original and modern hardware for the bbc micro/electron
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rmbrowngr
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Elk disc controllers

Post by rmbrowngr »

There was an Elk Plus 3 available on eBay and the winning bid was £174. There seems to be plenty of interest and willingness to pay for for disc controllers \ drives. To be honest I was interested to bid for it. Is anyone working on building new disc controllers for the Elk?
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by CMcDougall »

The Plus3 was the first for the elk from Acorn.

There is MUCH better ones from Pres being the AP3 & AP4 . Also ones from Slogged & Peagasus.
These are carts that just plug into the Plus1. They have external drives, either 51/4 or 3.5"

I have the Peagasus with DFS @e00 so more games work easily , especially those from tape to disc .

You can may be still buy some in the sales section, they are hot cakes.
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by daveejhitchins »

Yes, Pegasus Interfaces ARE still available - It's just a case of getting them built. I'll drop sixxdog_uk (Alex) a line to remind him the stock he has needs completing. In the meantime you may want to find yourself a drive. You can chose a 'real' disc drive or go the Gotec route - search the Forum for more information.

Dave H :D
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by danielj »

@dave - I was just this moment pondering whether or not the redesigned ap3/4 could have a gotek integrated into it, alongside rotary-encoder and OLED display, and then having the option to swap the internal and connected drives... I'd imagine moving a few components to SMD would yield the necessary space?
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by daveejhitchins »

danielj wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:54 am
@dave - I was just this moment pondering whether or not the redesigned ap3/4 could have a gotek integrated into it, alongside rotary-encoder and OLED display, and then having the option to swap the internal and connected drives... I'd imagine moving a few components to SMD would yield the necessary space?
Interesting idea, Daniel. My initial reaction is: I'd like to keep an external 34 way connector, for legacy drives, and add the HD disc option e.g. MartinB's scheme listed here - But yes that would be an excellent project - Oh! One more thing: It would have to fit into a Pegasus case :lol: as I had extra made for the up-coming AP4/5 revival.

I've not really looked closely at the Gotec thread - Do you think what I'm 'wanting' would work with what you already have?

Dave H :D
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by danielj »

daveejhitchins wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:02 am
Interesting idea, Daniel. My initial reaction is: I'd like to keep an external 34 way connector, for legacy drives, and add the HD disc option e.g. MartinB's scheme listed here - But yes that would be an excellent project - Oh! One more thing: It would have to fit into a Pegasus case :lol: as I had extra made for the up-coming AP4/5 revival.

I've not really looked closely at the Gotec thread - Do you think what I'm 'wanting' would work with what you already have?

Dave H :D
I think so - you would of course keep the external connector, giving you the option to run a second external gotek or real floppy, and then have the option to reassign the drive number on the internal one. The gotek circuit itself is out there in the wild, and our very own Prime has successfully built it into something else. It's just a question of being creative about fitting the external bells/whistles on to it. In so far as additional costs, you're just looking at a STM32F105 ARM uC (£5?) plus a few extra bits and bobs: https://cortexamigafloppydrive.files.wo ... matic1.jpg

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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by daveejhitchins »

Excellent . . . I have the whole of October free \o/ so that along with the IdeA interface is on the list of jobs.

New thread?

Dave H :D

Edit: Link to continuation of old thread.
Last edited by daveejhitchins on Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by 1024MAK »

See also the links in this post

Mark
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by rmbrowngr »

Are Pegasus controllers are DFS or ADFS? I only ask as I have a BeebSCSI (and AP5) which requires ADFS and want to avoid conflicts.

BTW, all this talk of the ultimate controller, integrating many items, is very exciting. I would be very interested to get my hands one when or if it exists. Keep up the good work.
Last edited by rmbrowngr on Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by MartinB »

The Peg can be DFS or ADFS (spit) - just fit the appropriate FS rom..... :)
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by daveejhitchins »

MartinB wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:33 pm
ADFS (spit)
Martin - You're turning into a footballer - shame on you :lol:
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by MartinB »

Fair comment Dave, I'll re-phrase it.....

The Peg can be DFS =D> :D 8) or ADFS :x :roll: =; ](*,) [-X - just fit the appropriate FS rom..... :)
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by 1024MAK »

:arrow: If you want proper sub-directories, there's only one option...
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by MartinB »

Yes, but Windows won’t run on an Electron.... [-(
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by daveejhitchins »

MartinB wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:10 pm
Fair comment Dave, I'll re-phrase it.....

The Peg can be DFS =D> :D 8) or ADFS :x :roll: =; ](*,) [-X - just fit the appropriate FS rom..... :)
=D> :lol: :lol: :lol: =D>

Dave H :lol:
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by daveejhitchins »

MartinB wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:31 am
Yes, but Windows won’t run on an Electron.... [-(
Working on it . . . :mrgreen:

Dave H :D
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by danielj »

MartinB wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:31 am
Yes, but Windows won’t run on an Electron.... [-(
Ever tried using beebscsi with dfs? :D
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by rmbrowngr »

No, but isn’t the ‘A’ in ADFS for “Advanced”? :lol:
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by JonC »

rmbrowngr wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:07 pm
No, but isn’t the ‘A’ in ADFS for “Advanced”? :lol:
Depends who you ask! :lol:
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by CMcDougall »

^ more like Abortion :lol:

I got my elk to run Win10 update 7,698 & the FortNite game for the kids ..... 8)
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by rmbrowngr »

So what’s missing from DFS that makes a BeebSCSI work?
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by rmbrowngr »

I was just reading in a different thread “fs: slogger Pegasus Electron disk interfaces new” that you can use the spare Rom socket for ADFS or any ELK utility roms. So I guess I can have Pegasus DFS and ADFS (e.g. unplug it from the AP5 and plug it in the spare Rom socket and have both the disk controller and BeebSCSI working?
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by danielj »

DFS was never designed to work with a hard disk, let alone the code necessary to address the hardware. ADFS has all the gubbins necessary - a hierarchical filing system really is a must when dealing with something like that. You can have both dfs and ADFS installed in the pegasus or ap3/4. PAGE will be at &1D00 because of ADFS but that's normal. If you're just using DFS you can disable it! :)

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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by derek »

Hi,

What is the best version of ADFS that can be used on the Pegasus board?
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by rmbrowngr »

derek wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 11:09 am
Hi,

What is the best version of ADFS that can be used on the Pegasus board?
Acorn ADFS v1.0 works fine with Pegasus. I have this and works fine. There is PRES E00 ADFS v3.31 Rom https://www.stairwaytohell.com/roms/homepage.html, but I don't know if it works with the Pegasus as I've never tried it.

BTW, the only reason I can see for using ADFS with the Pegasus is if you have a BeebSCSI (which I do have). Best to stick with DFS which comes with comes with the Pegasus which keeps PAGE at E00.
Last edited by rmbrowngr on Sat May 25, 2019 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by danielj »

The E00 electron ADFS needs to be loaded into two banks of sideways RAM, but doesn't have SCSI support. The only version of ADFS for the elk that has SCSI support is, AFAIK, 1.0. ADFS could be useful if you want to muck around with original Plus 3 electron disc images (of which there are a few knocking about), or you want to store more on a floppy and aren't worried about the memory chewing...

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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by rmbrowngr »

danielj wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 2:10 pm
The E00 electron ADFS needs to be loaded into two banks of sideways RAM, but doesn't have SCSI support.
Always wondered how you can set that up automatically to happen from boot.
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by danielj »

rmbrowngr wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 2:20 pm
Always wondered how you can set that up automatically to happen from boot.
Phill (Prime) produced a board that fits inside the plus 3 and copies the relevant image across to sideways RAM when you turn the machine on. That's no good for the pegasus though. The alternative is to use the ABR which gives two banks of battery backed sideways RAM, but will use up your second cartridge slot.
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by derek »

Hi,
rmbrowngr wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 2:00 pm
BTW, the only reason I can see for using ADFS with the Pegasus is if you have a BeebSCSI (which I do have). Best to stick with DFS which comes with comes with the Pegasus which keeps PAGE at E00.
I like to use sub-dirctories on disks, I thought that ADFS would make thisd possible.

But reading the forum with regards to ADFS, there are some that do not like it.

I will try it out just see it works for me.

I do not have a BeebSCSI, missed out on that. Since it is open source I might make some boards. Same goes for the Data Centre.
Last edited by derek on Sat May 25, 2019 2:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Elk disc controllers

Post by rmbrowngr »

derek wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 2:53 pm

I like to use sub-dirctories on disks, I thought that ADFS would make thisd possible.

But reading the forum with regards to ADFS, there are some that do not like it.
There are directories in DFS in a limited way.

Code: Select all

Directories

The directory is a single character used to divide the catalogue into independent sections. Files of the same name can be created on the same disc with different directories. 

Although on the same drive,
:1.$.MYPROG is a different file from :1.A.MYPROG because the directory is different.
http://chrisacorns.computinghistory.org ... emUGI2.pdf
Last edited by rmbrowngr on Sat May 25, 2019 4:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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