IDE interfaces - hardware details

[daveejhitchins]

The boards I produced are not hardware compatible with any Baildon cards. IDEFS software module don't just magically work with any IDE hardware interface.

Ok Ok, was only asking lol.
I'd rather not have to reformat and start again, thats why I mentioned it, but if I have do set up a clean card so be it..
Go you , rewriting your own IDEFS... braver than me lol.

I started work on the 6C again today - Hopefully not too many interruptions - except, maybe the Pegasus I've just found!.

Dave H

[IanS]

Go you , rewriting your own IDEFS... braver than me lol.

Nope, not me, it was John Kortink - http://www.zeridajh.org/software/zidefs/index.htm I just produced compatible hardware.

[AndyMc1280]

Go you , rewriting your own IDEFS... braver than me lol.

Nope, not me, it was John Kortink - http://www.zeridajh.org/software/zidefs/index.htm I just produced compatible hardware.

Back to being nosey. I bought two of the cards, one for my R260 and an 8bit one for my A3010.

Am I correct in what I think I read in that you can switch between IDEFS and ZIDEFS ? What are the jumper settings to do so ?

[IanS]

The two jumpers on board, one selects between ZIDEFS or other, when set to other, the other jumoer switches between IDEFS and SIDEFS (of little use to anyone, but left in for extreme cases of 3 cards fitted to one machine)

Try changing the jumpers, do a full reset, check the module list, see which modules are loaded.

[AndyMc1280]

I wonder if the firmware on the 6C version PCB 'catches-up' with these features? Anyone know?

Probably, I'm sure it probably gained partition support if nothing else.

The 5x version was upgraded quite a lot, from when ZIDEFS was written - the latest version I have is attached. Maybe worth a try?

BE-APDL-IDE5-IDEFS3v22-CDFS2v21-0V21.BIN.zipFor this board"IMG_2432.jpgIMG_2431.jpg

I do have one of those IDE cards, that's where my journey with ZIDEFS started. I tried the ZIDEFS rom in it, and it didn't work. Only then did I notice the picture of the IDE card on John's website. That was many years ago.
I don't expect the newer rom to work on the older interface.

I can add to this discussion.

My 6C with latest 3.28 idefs (Yes there's a later version of the module.) Supports 8 partitions. I have a 5B with earlier 3.21 idefs.

In the course of my pratting around with trying to have 8 partitions on my A3010, (3.21 has 4) someone took the rom image above and substituted the later idefs module. Never got to try it out as A3010 went wonky.

So, if anyone wants to add 8 partition support.....

[aotta]

i am working on 16bit podule version, i am missing only soldering resistors but i need some help for their values (for r8 to r31 ones) and i am not sure about j1 and jp3 role..

may be give me a little help IanS?

[IanS]

i am working on 16bit podule version, i am missing only soldering resistors but i need some help for their values (for r8 to r31 ones) and i am not sure about j1 and jp3 role..
Ide16.jpg

may be give me a little help IanS?

r8 - r31 are series resistors for the ide signals. Dave suggests they are essential if using long IDE cables, I generally fit DOM or CF adapters where the cable length is almost zero. Based on the circuit diagrams Dave posted, they should be about 68 Ohms, I fitted 56 Ohms on some boards. For the first batch of boards I didn't have these resistors on the board, and on the latest batch (not yet for sale) I've taken them off again (too much hassle to solder, and most people are using DOM's or CF adapters)

J4 and JP3 work together, so that in theory you can fit the board to a machine without a backplane. If fitted to a machine without a backplane (A3xx only), don't fit a jumper to jp3, and connect the red +5 wire from the power supply to J4. I didn't have a lot of success doing this with HCT chips, but if you use HC chips (74HC245 for U1,U3 and U4) it works well fitted directly to the motherboard without a backplane. If using a backplane, fit a jumper link to JP3 and don't connect anything to J4.

J1 is where you can fit a drive activity LED (looks like you've already added an LED in the picture), the circuit with two transistors, shameless based on Dave's circuit is to drive a bi-color LED. If using a single colour LED and it lights when it should be off, swap the pins over.

[aotta]

Thank you IanS for all info! I need it for my a5000 (finally I made a working ones) and I will use a CF card, so I"ll solder a simple wire or a 0R resistor, and left jumper (and led) as already done.
Thank you again!

[aotta]

too beauty to be real... finished assembling 16bit board, installed on the A5000 and:
- with ide (cf or real hd) connected, hangs on purple screen;
- without ide connected, it boot but at *podules command i get: "internal error: address exception at &0382601c", with all four combination of jp1 & jp2.
I put zidefs at &70000, and other FS at 74000, 78000 and 7c000 as in previous post indicated.

I know i am one of your worst nightmares IanS... but can you give me another hints?

[IanS]

too beauty to be real... finished assembling 16bit board, installed on the A5000 and:
- with ide (cf or real hd) connected, hangs on purple screen;
- without ide connected, it boot but at *podules command i get: "internal error: address exception at &0382601c", with all four combination of jp1 & jp2.
I put zidefs at &70000, and other FS at 74000, 78000 and 7c000 as in previous post indicated.

I know i am one of your worst nightmares IanS... but can you give me another hints?

Have you fitted a jumper link on JP3?
Do you have +5v on each chip? (what test equpment do you have? do you have a multimeter?)
What happens if you remove the chips U1 & U3? (it should still detect the ROM modules, but the IDE bit won't work)
Have you used the different GAL equations? (the 8-bit and 16-bit GAL contents are different, as are the ROM contents)

[aotta]

too beauty to be real... finished assembling 16bit board, installed on the A5000 and:
- with ide (cf or real hd) connected, hangs on purple screen;
- without ide connected, it boot but at *podules command i get: "internal error: address exception at &0382601c", with all four combination of jp1 & jp2.
I put zidefs at &70000, and other FS at 74000, 78000 and 7c000 as in previous post indicated.

I know i am one of your worst nightmares IanS... but can you give me another hints?

Have you fitted a jumper link on JP3?
Do you have +5v on each chip? (what test equpment do you have? do you have a multimeter?)
What happens if you remove the chips U1 & U3? (it should still detect the ROM modules, but the IDE bit won't work)
Have you used the different GAL equations? (the 8-bit and 16-bit GAL contents are different, as are the ROM contents)

The jumper on JP3 solved purple screen issue, and now it boot with CF attached, but i get always address exception and podule isn't recognized.
5V found at last pin of each IC, and removed U1 & U3 make no difference.
I used GAl for if0, but i decoded it myself to JED format, maybe i made some error... tomorrow i will recheck the GAL programming, thank you for precious help IanS!

[IanS]

The jumper on JP3 solved purple screen issue, and now it boot with CF attached, but i get always address exception and podule isn't recognized.
5V found at last pin of each IC, and removed U1 & U3 make no difference.
I used GAl for if0, but i decoded it myself to JED format, maybe i made some error... tomorrow i will recheck the GAL programming, thank you for precious help IanS!

Try this for the GAL.

IDE_Podule.zip

if0 GAL JED File

(668 Bytes) Downloaded 13 times

[aotta]

Try this for the GAL.
IDE_Podule.zip

Thank you, but no difference... always same exception.

I will recheck all solders tomorrow and made further test..

[IanS]

Try this for the GAL.
IDE_Podule.zip

Thank you, but no difference... always same exception.

I will recheck all solders tomorrow and made further test..

With the podule in slot 0, can you run the command "*memory b 03340000+ff". This should show the first part of the rom.
The rom will appear in every 4th byte (as highlighted).

*memory output

You can see how this matches with the first bytes in the rom.

Rom dump (ZIDEFS)

Any differences should help in diagnosis.

[aotta]

mmhh.. a lot of difference, in fact:

it seems the 3rd bit (4) is always set..

[IanS]

it seems the 3rd bit (4) is always set..

Yep, time to check your soldering.

[aotta]

it seems the 3rd bit (4) is always set..

Yep, time to check your soldering.

Yes, great idea give a look in memory! Many thanks again!

[aotta]

it seems the 3rd bit (4) is always set..

Yep, time to check your soldering.

Yes, great idea give a look in memory! Many thanks again!

Found the bug! and was wery small... a drill on the pcb in the D2 line from ROM and GAL was scrapy.. and line interrupted! a wire solved and podule start! now trying to use hform on CF card without formatting my IDE Discs...
You are my hero IanS!

[IanS]

Found the bug! and was wery small... a drill on the pcb in the D2 line from ROM and GAL was scrapy.. and line interrupted! a wire solved and podule start! now trying to use hform on CF card without formatting my IDE Discs...

Run hform from floppy, and disconnect the IDE connected to the on-board interface. I always do it just to be sure.

[aotta]

Found the bug! and was wery small... a drill on the pcb in the D2 line from ROM and GAL was scrapy.. and line interrupted! a wire solved and podule start! now trying to use hform on CF card without formatting my IDE Discs...

Run hform from floppy, and disconnect the IDE connected to the on-board interface. I always do it just to be sure.

Mission accomplished!
last two (i promise! ) question, as cherries upon the cake...
- is there a way to make front yellow led flashing when podule's drive is operating?
- if replacing HD with a SDcard ide, i can format it in ADFS but i got "broken directory" when accessing.. is possible to use internal ide drive with zidefs? i have to add a 5th column eprom with zidefs (or Wizzo, i read somewhere it's seems best FS for sdcard2Ide adapter)?

[IanS]

Mission accomplished!
last two (i promise! ) question, as cherries upon the cake...
- is there a way to make front yellow led flashing when podule's drive is operating?
- if replacing HD with a SDcard ide, i can format it in ADFS but i got "broken directory" when accessing.. is possible to use internal ide drive with zidefs? i have to add a 5th column eprom with zidefs (or Wizzo, i read somewhere it's seems best FS for sdcard2Ide adapter)?

The front HD LED is wired into the internal IDE port, so it would be difficult to make it flash for the podule access. You could wire up the front power LED to the podule, then depending on the which way round you connect the wires, the LED will be on or off when the drive is accessed. So you could wire it up so it is on most of the time (acting as a power indicator), but goes off to show drive access.

I don't own an A5000 so have never had chance to try SD/CF cards on the internal port (I guess it's similar to the A4000). From what I read on here, the wizzo rom is a good solution, and it's easy to fit in an A5000 with the 5th column rom socket.

[aotta]

The front HD LED is wired into the internal IDE port, so it would be difficult to make it flash for the podule access. You could wire up the front power LED to the podule, then depending on the which way round you connect the wires, the LED will be on or off when the drive is accessed. So you could wire it up so it is on most of the time (acting as a power indicator), but goes off to show drive access.

It's what i was thinking too, but i'd like to left front led working for ide drive too... maybe i can made an "Y" cable for both source, with a diode in the + wire from podules, so led should flash when one of two drives is running.

Anyway, i enjoy myself in making both 8 and 16 bit podules you shared with us, and you was very kind in helping me all times i got in trouble... if you PM your mail i'll offer you a paypal-beer!

[IanS]

Anyway, i enjoy myself in making both 8 and 16 bit podules you shared with us, and you was very kind in helping me all times i got in trouble... if you PM your mail i'll offer you a paypal-beer!

I'm just happy that you got them both working. How many PCB's did you get made, are you going to populate them and sell any?

[aotta]

I'm just happy that you got them both working. How many PCB's did you get made, are you going to populate them and sell any?

I've a A3000, a A4000 and a A5000, so i made two 8 bit and one 16 bit boards. I had to order 10 PCBs for each version, so I had some left and maybe l'll populate one or two more boards for spare, but I don't think to sell any card.

[TimoHartong]

Hi,

During the wakefield show you sold me one of your nice IDE boards. I read on John Kortink website that only RO 3.1 and higher is supported. Would there be an eprom image which supports RO 2.0 ?.

[IanS]

During the wakefield show you sold me one of your nice IDE boards. I read on John Kortink website that only RO 3.1 and higher is supported. Would there be an eprom image which supports RO 2.0 ?.

For the 16-bit card (which is a clone of the ICS board), yes - viewtopic.php?f=16&t=11011&p=206464#p206429
For the 8-bit card, there is no version of software that works under RISC 2.0.

The ICS software doesn't support partitions (afaik), but if you set one partition and format it under ZIDEFS, it should then work under RISC OS 2 with the ICS rom.

[sparkyhall]

Hi,

During the wakefield show you sold me one of your nice IDE boards. I read on John Kortink website that only RO 3.1 and higher is supported. Would there be an eprom image which supports RO 2.0 ?.

I have a copy of V1.13 ICS firmware that came with my my ICS board that I used with RiscOS 2.0, I can upload a copy of this if it helps?

I also have a disk with the associated ICS disk utilities, I could upload a copy of this too?

I found ICS firmware V2.02 didn't work to well with some CF cards (corrupt files > 300k-500k), others were fine though, I never tried CF with V1.13. Installing ZIDEFS resolved these issues.

Chris

[IanS]

I have a copy of V1.13 ICS firmware that came with my my ICS board that I used with RiscOS 2.0, I can upload a copy of this if it helps?

I also have a disk with the associated ICS disk utilities, I could upload a copy of this too?

I found ICS firmware V2.02 didn't work to well with some CF cards (corrupt files > 300k-500k), others were fine though, I never tried CF with V1.13. Installing ZIDEFS resolved these issues.

I think V1.14 of the ROM is in the link I posted earlier, but upload what you have. The utilities would be interesting to see, please upload if you can.

I had similar issue when running under RISC OS 2, it seemed to struggle with some CF cards, I did find one SSD that was ok (though I didn't do exhaustive testing).

[TimoHartong]

Yes please do. I hopefully burn the eprom in the last link tomorrow.

[sparkyhall]

I have attached ROM images of the IDEFS Version 1.13 and Version 2.02 together with their associated utility files. I can't remember if V2.02 works with RiscOS 2.0 or if it only works with RiscOS 3.10. The IDEUtils2.zip 'ReadMe' file suggest that if you find any bug you should contact some bloke called David Hitchins

IDE1_1V13.txt

Binary file, rename to IDE1_1V13.BIN

(8 KiB) Downloaded 13 times

IDE1_2V02.txt

Binary file, rename to IDE1_2V02.BIN

(8 KiB) Downloaded 13 times

IDEUtils1.zip

(77.88 KiB) Downloaded 10 times

IDEUtils2.zip

(253.79 KiB) Downloaded 10 times