Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

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flynnjs
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by flynnjs » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:58 pm

It's what Dave developed on to start with. It only has 8-bit wide RAM,
so unless you pull some trickery with multi-byte RAM access it won't
support x86 or Amber cores.

I will probably gain enthusiasm to do another batch, but with the
recent long evenings tracking down the decoupling bug and the
time it took to do the batch, I'm just a bit out of steam right now.
40 boards is a lot to do as a freebie.
Also, I've got pile of USB Econet board which I was supposed to
be finishing over xmas but got distracted with the CoPro. I need
to get those out the door first!

Also, I've not worked out the price for a batch 2 yet. It will be more
because the qty of PCBs is smaller and the unit cost will be higher.

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hoglet
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by hoglet » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:04 pm

flynnjs wrote:It's what Dave developed on to start with. It only has 8-bit wide RAM,
so unless you pull some trickery with multi-byte RAM access it won't
support x86 or Amber cores.
This sort of trickery is quite possible, as the Zet processor uses a Wishbone interface, so taking two cycles to read a 16 bit word from memory would be fine.

That said, the 80x86 Co Pro development is currently stalled, as I don't have a clue how to start debugging the Floppy Drive access issue when DOSPLUS first boots.

The other problem with the GOP is that the only supplier I know never seems to have any stock:
http://shop.trenz-electronic.de/en/TE02 ... -FPGA?c=12
I asked in October, was told a couple weeks, and never saw any come in.

Dave

dangardner
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by dangardner » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:10 pm

flynnjs wrote:Also, I've got pile of USB Econet board which I was supposed to be finishing over xmas but got distracted with the CoPro. I need to get those out the door first!
My sympathies to anybody not lucky enough to have been in the first batch for the CoPro but this news of the USB Econet just made my day. =D>

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hoglet
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by hoglet » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:12 pm

hoglet wrote:
flynnjs wrote:It's what Dave developed on to start with. It only has 8-bit wide RAM,
so unless you pull some trickery with multi-byte RAM access it won't
support x86 or Amber cores.
This sort of trickery is quite possible, as the Zet processor uses a Wishbone interface, so taking two cycles to read a 16 bit word from memory would be fine.
I also just remembered I did try to synthesise the 80x86 design for the GOP, and it was also simply too big. So this one really does need the LX9.

But the other three (6502, Z80 and 6808) are all running fine in the GOP. An adapter board is needed to connect it to the Tube. See the piccies here:
http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewto ... 852#p98176
This is far more of a DIY affair, and does not need Jason's amazing assembly skills to produce.

Dave

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berendvosmer
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by berendvosmer » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:22 pm

Could it run on a papilio one 250 with an adapter board with some level shifters and RAM?

The papilio one is cheap enough, but I have insufficient knowledge of FPGA design to know if I'm suggesting something stupid :wink:

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hoglet
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by hoglet » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:35 pm

berendvosmer wrote:Could it run on a papilio one 250 with an adapter board with some level shifters and RAM?

The papilio one is cheap enough, but I have insufficient knowledge of FPGA design to know if I'm suggesting something stupid :wink:
The 8 bit processors would I think fit on the Papilio One 250K (xc3s250e chip). The 16 bit processors are too large.

You would need to make a custom wing containing a SRAM and Level Shifters, but I think there are just about enough IO pins:
- 128Kx8 SRAM = 8 data + 17 address + 3 control = 28 pins
- Tube = 8 data + 3 address + 5 control = 16 pins

That leaves 4 spare for flashing LEDs (the Papilio has 48 I/O connections).

This wing would be another nice DIY project.

Soon there will also be the Papilio Duo:
http://papilio.cc/index.php?n=Papilio.P ... dwareGuide
this would just need the level shifters, as it contains the SRAM and also has the LX9 FPGA (same as Jason's board).

Dave

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by berendvosmer » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:44 pm

hoglet wrote: You would need to make a custom wing containing a SRAM and Level Shifters, but I think there are just about enough IO pins:
- 128Kx8 SRAM = 8 data + 17 address + 3 control = 28 pins
- Tube = 8 data + 3 address + 5 control = 16 pins

That leaves 4 spare for flashing LEDs (the Papilio has 48 I/O connections).

This wing would be another nice DIY project.
If you could help me remapping the pins, I might have a go at this wing. The papilio one is comfortably cheap and can be programmed with plain USB, which is a plus for me as I don't have a programmer.

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hoglet
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by hoglet » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:28 am

berendvosmer wrote: you could help me remapping the pins, I might have a go at this wing. The papilio one is comfortably cheap and can be programmed with plain USB, which is a plus for me as I don't have a programmer.
I'm happy to have a go at the weekend.

I have a Papilio One 500K, so wouldn't mind building one of these myself.

Are you planning to make a small PCB, or make this some other way?

Lets continue this discussion back in the design thread:
http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewto ... =44&t=8852

Dave

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sirmorris
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by sirmorris » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:31 pm

Received my board this morning - Thanks Jason! It's a beauty!

I look forward to some TubElite tonight :D

C

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by iainjh » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:15 pm

Jason, it's arrived; a public THANK YOU to Jason and Hoglet and contributors :)

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sweh
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by sweh » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:38 pm

dangardner wrote:but this news of the USB Econet just made my day. =D>
+1 :-)
Rgds
Stephen

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paulv
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by paulv » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:12 pm

Mine arrived today and look great. Now to find the time to meddle with them
.. The list of things to do seems to be getting forever longer at the mo.

Thanks

Paul

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1024MAK
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by 1024MAK » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:12 am

paulv wrote:Mine arrived today and look great. Now to find the time to meddle with them
.. The list of things to do seems to be getting forever longer at the mo.

Thanks

Paul
Mine arrived on Wednesday as well :D
I'm writing this on, err, in the early hours (or is late now :roll: ) of Thursday, as it's gone all busy for me again :shock:.

I may find some time on Sunday to do some testing, but until then they will have to stay in their box :(.

How come as a child, I could nearly always have some playtime every day, but not as a 40+ adult (even though I'm only contracted for 35 hours a week, mind, some time is used up by other commitments) :-s :-?

Mark

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sweh
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by sweh » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:17 am

1024MAK wrote:How come as a child, I could nearly always have some playtime every day, but not as a 40+ adult (even though I'm only contracted for 35 hours a week, mind, some time is used up by other commitments) :-s :-?
Else-net I was complaining... as a kid I would get 4 books out of the library (max allowed) and read them all in a week (sometimes had to re-read if I finished quickly). Today I'm lucky if I read 1 book a week (last year I read 47 books).

The time of reading until 2am and then being up at 6:30am for school^Wwork is long past. If I read 3 pages in bed then it's a lot!

Either we've got slower as we get older or there's just too many other distractions (LIKE THIS WEBSITE!!!!!) that take up our time...
Rgds
Stephen

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daveejhitchins
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by daveejhitchins » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:55 pm

Mine arrived yesterday :D

Tested on the Electron, with the ATI, and:
Matchbox CoPro Elk.jpg
=D>

Not had time to run anything on it, as yet. Had to carry out the 'Master' modification to the connector housing for it to fit OK.

I'll do more testing when I can and take more photos.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by RobC » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:09 pm

Mine came today and are both working well. Have one setup as a Z80 and the other as a 6809.

Many thanks Jason and Hoglet!

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by tricky » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:34 pm

Got mine back from the post office today, looks very pretty - I just have to pack the tree and lights away as an excuse to get at my real beebs.

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by daveejhitchins » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:38 pm

More test results:
CoPro1.jpg
CoPro2.jpg
And the modifications to the ATI for the CoPro to fit:
CoPro4.jpg
CoPro5.jpg
A close-up of how the connector is modified.
CoPro6.jpg
It should look better once I collect my extension lead for DanielJ.

I was hoping to find my copy of Tube Elite . . . Not found, yet! However, I did find what my be of interest, or not, to some people -> Here

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by jgharston » Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:39 am

daveejhitchins wrote:More test results:
CoPro1.jpg
(Z80 CoPro failing to boot CP/M)
The Z80 CoPro can fall over trying to boot CP/M if DFS isn't the current filing system on a Master as OSWORD &7F makes some silly assumptions when it is called. The simplest fix is to do Ctrl-D-Break. I'm tempted to migrate the disk access fix that I put in the Hard Drive BIOS into the Tube Client.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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daveejhitchins
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by daveejhitchins » Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:44 am

jgharston wrote:The Z80 CoPro can fall over trying to boot CP/M if DFS isn't the current filing system on a Master as OSWORD &7F makes some silly assumptions when it is called. The simplest fix is to do Ctrl-D-Break. I'm tempted to migrate the disk access fix that I put in the Hard Drive BIOS into the Tube Client.
I must add . . . I only turned-on to see if the CoPro actually responded. I had no intention of trying anything else. However, I note your comments and will ensure that DFS is selected if I get round to any further testing.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by TheCorfiot » Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:11 pm

Hi Dave

I couldnt get a real Acorn z80 copro to boot with the Electron using the ATI.

Yes it does insist on an 8271 or 1770 DFS being active but i've a feeling ACP DFS does not satisfy the z80 copro enough to boot.

:)

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by daveejhitchins » Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:38 pm

TheCorfiot wrote:Hi Dave

I couldnt get a real Acorn z80 copro to boot with the Electron using the ATI.

Yes it does insist on an 8271 or 1770 DFS being active but i've a feeling ACP DFS does not satisfy the z80 copro enough to boot.

:)
We can have a look at Halifax . . .

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by danielj » Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:36 pm

I'll do a set of boot disks on 3.5...

D.

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by flynnjs » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:23 pm

All boards have been posted for some time now so if you
haven't received by, say, end of the Halifax meeting then
drop me a PM and I'll check the tracking.
(overseas may take a while longer).

I have 3 hand deliveries to make at Halifax.

skjerk
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by skjerk » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:37 pm

I got mine today!

Thanks a lot :-) I look forward to playing with it!
Just ordered a programmer off ebay for firmware updates.
Thank you for an excellent job!

Cheers
Carsten

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by stevendt » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:57 am

Hi again,

I have my fingers firmly crossed that batch 2 will happen.......

I already have my name on the list, but I see that I didn't let you know which one and how many, so .....

I'd like a big one please :lol:

Regards
Dave

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by dixiestoat » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:08 pm

Mine's returned today from "Capacitor Hospital"
Time to have a play!

Many thanks again Jason, and in fact to all concerned.
Nick :D
If in doubt, CTRL-BREAK thou should clout..

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by Yrrah2 » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:32 am

Wow :shock: :shock: :shock:
Could I be listed for the Batch 2 list?
Love to have one too for my master, mode B 8)

Anyone want to buy my internal 6502 when Batch 2 is made and received?

Cheers

Koen
Happy with my BBC Master
www.mybbcmaster.nl

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flynnjs
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by flynnjs » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:28 pm

I need a bit of time off, batch 1 turned into a bit more work that I really wanted.

*IF* I were to price up a batch 2, the price would be higher as there are various
items that I would get less discount on due to smaller quantity (PCBs being the
main thing).

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Post by steve3000 » Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:02 pm

flynnjs wrote:I need a bit of time off, batch 1 turned into a bit more work that I really wanted.
Absolutely, you deserve it!

It's clear you put an enormous amount of work into the first batch for no personal gain - just your enthusiasm and commitment to see the project through to completion.

I'm on the second list too and happy to wait until you make the call one way or the other. :)

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