BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

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danielj
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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by danielj » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:20 pm

Ian, how many have you sold in total now? I just wonder how many operational econets there are floating about!

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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by BeebMaster » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:20 pm

I wish I knew! I don't have an accurate record of how many kits were made, and I don't have a collated history of all the occasions I bought 68B54. The earliest record is a ledger entry from 26th June 2003 showing I paid for 20 8271 and 20 68B54, but on the same date there is also an E-Bay listing fee for an 8271 upgrade kit. It's unlikely that any products would have been shipped without cleared funds, and this was in the days when I was paying by cheque and having to fax order confirmations to suppliers, so possibly the ledger was just catching up at that time. Or maybe I already had stock of 8271 as I did start the disc kits before Econet.

The next record is a purchase order for another 20 of each from August 2006, after that it's difficult to keep track as everything is done by Paypal or debit card payments so it's harder to trace what payment was for what.

I'd say at least 100 Econet kits, very possibly considerably more, maybe getting above 150.

More reliable for number of Econets founded by BeebMaster might be number of Clocks sold as there were only 100 made, and my records suggest that there might be only 16 left.
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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by Hinotori » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:27 pm

How many kits do you have left?

:)

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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by BeebMaster » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:39 pm

Zero. But I will do another batch if there is enough interest. Probably available around Easter time.
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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by BeebMaster » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:03 am

I'm planning to make up another batch of Econet kits over the Easter weekend. I'll post again when they are ready but if anyone wants to spur me on in the meantime please do so!
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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by Lardo Boffin » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:00 pm

I could do with a model B kit. :D
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by KenLowe » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:58 pm

I can't believe I missed this first time round! I'd definitely be interested in at least a couple for the BBC B (is there a difference between the BBC B and BBC B+ kits?). I'd also be interested in a starter kit for, say 4 BBC Bs if you still have some of those available. I assume the starter kits are the extra bits needed to hook up the econet enabled Beebs together (cables, clock & terminators)? Out of interest, what's the difference between the Master and BBC starter kit, as I do also have a Master in storage, that I could pull out if it was the better solution? Total Econet newbie here!

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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by Kazzie » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:15 am

KenLowe wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:58 pm
I can't believe I missed this first time round! I'd definitely be interested in at least a couple for the BBC B (is there a difference between the BBC B and BBC B+ kits?). I'd also be interested in a starter kit for, say 4 BBC Bs if you still have some of those available. I assume the starter kits are the extra bits needed to hook up the econet enabled Beebs together (cables, clock & terminators)? Out of interest, what's the difference between the Master and BBC starter kit, as I do also have a Master in storage, that I could pull out if it was the better solution? Total Econet newbie here!
On the BBC B (and B+, to the best of my knowledge) installing Econet hardware requires removing the mainboard to solder on IC sockets, resistors, a few jumpers, and the socket for the back of the case, then inserting ICs into those sockets. On a Master, by contrast, you have a single expansion board that you plug into the mainboard, and the rest is configured in software.
BBC Model B 32k issue 7, Sidewise ROM board with 16K RAM
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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by BeebMaster » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:10 pm

A bit later than anticipated, I've made a start. Another week or so and I should have some kits ready.

It's taking me longer to print the labels than to make up the kits! I have been using Avery L7162 equivalent laser labels for at least 20 years but every template I have ever used does not print in the right place. I have wasted 7 sheets of labels gradually adjusting the top margin so that finally they work!

And then the swine evil pig printer took in two sheets at once, ruining them both! So much for guaranteed jam-free!

And another thing!! Why does Ubuntu/CUPS insist on sending a multiple-copy print job to the printer as individual jobs? It's supposed to send it to the printer once and tell the printer to print it X times! I've got 70 jobs waiting which is from printing only 5 different documents!

What a waste of time and electricity and drum/belt/fuser life!

Tea...tea...need some tea.....
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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by 1024MAK » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:48 am

Hi Ian

I have another two patients awaiting surgery, so if you have another two upgrade parts kits suitable to upgrade one BBC B and one BBC B+ that would be great :D

Also I have a Master 128 that is in need of one of your modules if you have any left.

Mark

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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by 1024MAK » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:56 am

BeebMaster wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:10 pm
It's taking me longer to print the labels than to make up the kits! I have been using Avery L7162 equivalent laser labels for at least 20 years but every template I have ever used does not print in the right place. I have wasted 7 sheets of labels gradually adjusting the top margin so that finally they work!
I always do test prints on cheap thin plain paper (the budget stuff) first. Then measure with a ruler while comparing to a sheet of labels. Or overlay one on top of the other while held up to a window with the sun behind it (one day I will rediscover the cheap and nasty light box that I got from a surplus suppler years ago...).

It’s not only Linux/CUPS that repeatability sends the same page over and over again. I get the same at work on a Windows machine printing to a network printer sometimes.

Mark

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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by 1024MAK » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:03 am

Kazzie wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:15 am
On the BBC B (and B+, to the best of my knowledge) installing Econet hardware requires removing the mainboard to solder on IC sockets, resistors, a few jumpers, and the socket for the back of the case, then inserting ICs into those sockets.
And here are two photos of me upgrading a BBC at an ABug meet-up earlier this year...
http://www.beebmaster.co.uk/Shows/ABugJ ... 19-15.html
http://www.beebmaster.co.uk/Shows/ABugJ ... 19-40.html

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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by BeebMaster » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:47 am

1024MAK wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:56 am
It’s not only Linux/CUPS that repeatability sends the same page over and over again. I get the same at work on a Windows machine printing to a network printer sometimes.
Ahh - could be network printing I suppose. Really slows the task down though - by the time the final print job disappeared from the print queue it said it was sent 38 minutes before! And this for a printer which says it does 14ppm, so it should have taken only about 5 minutes to all the printing I needed!

I'll have to try it with the printer connected directly to the computer. Or upload the print job direct to the printer web interface and request multiple copies. I used to do that sometimes at work in a previous life when the print server broke down and the I.T. people couldn't understand why I was the only person who could still print!
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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by BeebMaster » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:51 am

Pots of tea later, and a couple of chapters of P G Wodehouse, and reading about the predicament of someone forced to spend the night in a summer house hiding from his drunken valet, marauding loony-doctor and ravening prospective US-tycoon father-in-law make things seem just a little more bearable. So on with the job:
NetKits2019-1.jpg
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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by BeebMaster » Thu May 02, 2019 9:38 pm

The next batch of 32 kits is available. They are identical to last July's batch except that I have reduced the packaging further by combining the resistors and capacitors into a single bag.

The kits contain all components required to upgrade a BBC Model B from issue 2 onwards to Econet, regardless of whether there is a disc interface fitted already. I can also supply a "converter" pack for use with a BBC Model B+.

Kits are £35 each including UK P&P for forum members, overseas postage at cost, please send a PM to me for ordering.

Also available:

SJ-Research-type Terminator Plugs: £12 for a pair.

BeebMaster Econet Clock including UK PSU: £45.

BeebMaster Econet Module: £30
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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by 1024MAK » Wed May 08, 2019 10:30 am

Today I received a BeebMaster special delivery...

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BeebMaster Econet kits

Thanks Ian =D> =D> =D>

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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by KenLowe » Wed May 08, 2019 11:33 am

...and yesterday, I received something very similar:
20190507_174330.jpg
A couple of kits, a clock, a few cables and a couple of terminators.

Not sure when I'll get time to install the kits and get a network up and running. Time permitting, maybe this weekend [-o< [-o<

Thanks Ian =D> =D> =D>

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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by BeebMaster » Sun May 19, 2019 10:25 am

I decided to end my E-Bay auctions early (still plenty of kits available though) because they told me my listings were illegal as I had had the audacity to link to a page outside the Universe According to E-Bay and there was no way whatsoever to provide a link in the listing to the instructions. It used to work but now it appears to be a capital offence for even thinking that there may be another web domain somewhere other than E-Bay. They suggested I provide the link to a winning bidder, but that is a useless idea as I want people to see in advance what they might be letting themselves in for.

In the same spirit I think it's only right to link to all the instructions here:

http://www.beebmaster.co.uk/BeebShop/Do ... 20v2-5.pdf

http://www.beebmaster.co.uk/BeebShop/Do ... 20v1-2.pdf

http://www.beebmaster.co.uk/BeebShop/Do ... 20v1-1.pdf

http://www.beebmaster.co.uk/BeebShop/Do ... entres.zip

http://www.beebmaster.co.uk/BeebShop/Do ... e2NetMods/
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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by 1024MAK » Sun May 19, 2019 7:41 pm

There is also Sell My Retro which you may want to look at... ;-)

Mark

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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by BeebMaster » Tue May 21, 2019 9:49 am

Yes, I'm already on there, but I am not sure how BBC micro oriented it is, and I'm new with no points so I don't seem to be getting much traction.
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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by 1024MAK » Tue May 21, 2019 3:30 pm

BeebMaster wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:49 am
Yes, I'm already on there, but I am not sure how BBC micro oriented it is, and I'm new with no points so I don't seem to be getting much traction.
As with many things, it’s a catch 22. If no one sells Acorn goods on there, the number of buyers looking will be small. If the number of potential buyers is small, people may not want to sell on there...

The site was set-up by a person who wanted to have a trading site that was friendly for small scale developers. He was heavily involved with the Sinclair QL scene. Over time, more and more QL, ZX81, Sinclair, Commodore etc. owners are discovering it.

I see no reason why Acorn owners should not use it. Of course, to get Acorn owners to visit it, it will need members here, and in the Facebook group to keep pointing to it.

And, yes, it’s never going to beat eBay in terms of size.

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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by Elminster » Tue May 21, 2019 3:35 pm

Is somewhere like Tindie viable, or do they take too much cut?

https://www.tindie.com/about/sell/

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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by BeebMaster » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:24 pm

Interesting...I re-listed the kits on E-Bay yesterday with a note saying the links were blocked & contact me for info. When I looked today the links have been restored. Maybe they've had a change of heart.
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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by KenLowe » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:34 pm

I bought two kits (numbers 1 & 2 :D) from BeebMaster a few months ago, but was lacking spare time to strip down a beeb to install them, until today when I had a couple of spare hours to install one of these kits into one of my beebs. It's recognising the clock, so, so far so good - I think.

I don't have any file servers set up yet to fully test it, but that will be next. Then I need to build some Econet socket boxes so I can extend the network to a few beebs and a file server. This is all new to me, so baby steps...

Nice clear installation instructions, BTW. Thank you BeebMaster =D> =D> =D>

Edit: And that's a second beeb hooked up to the clock. This is my main beeb, which already had econet hardware installed. Never used this econet hardware until now. Quick test with BeebMasters NOTIFY program, and I have good comms between the two beebs :D

Edit2: And now with a Level 1 file server running :D
Last edited by KenLowe on Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by BeebMaster » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:25 am

Great news! If you have Level 1 running successfully you will soon be wanting Level 2 or 3. The only extra hardware needed for Level 2 is a 6502 second processor. That used to be a major problem, but with modern versions everyone has multiple second processors now!

For Level 3 you need either a 1770 interface and ADFS for floppy discs, or just ADFS and an ADFS compatible hard drive. Again, used to be a problem but everyone has flash drives now.
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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by KenLowe » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:05 am

I've got an original 6502 cheese wedge, and an original(ish) Winchester drive, so if I want to go for the real retro look...

...however, I've also got limited desk space, so I'll probably go down the PiTube / BeebSCSI hardware route. The machine I'm going to be using as the server has a 8271 controller, so I'm guessing the level 3 server will be hard drive based. I'm hoping that's not going to be too much of a challenge. In particular, I'm wondering what will be the best way to use the .adl disk images I've downloaded to run the level 3 file server.

If I run into too many challenges, I could use one of my other beebs that already has a 1770 controller (or a B+), but I'm not sure if any of those machines have the Econet hardware installed. I'll need to check. I do still have one of your kits left that I could install on one of those machines (although I understand some additional hardware is required for installing the Econet kit into the B+?).

I've also just been reading through the Level 2 and Level 3 admin and user guides and, assuming I get the hardware / disk images all sorted out, it all looks fairly straight forward. Here's hoping!

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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by BeebMaster » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:00 pm

I've been sniffed at in the past for providing an ADFS disc image of the Level 3 file server, when Acorn always supplied the Master disc and libraries as DFS discs, but I always thought it made sense to have a combined ADFS/Econet disc so people could write one disc image and have the file server code and a working Econet partition without having to do anything else.

There is a logical copy of the ADFS part of my 2010 L3 download here which might help with file transfers:

http://www.beebmaster.co.uk/Downloads/L ... 20Copy.zip

It needs a new version building really since the discovery of version 1.24 of the L3 code, updated now with date and other fixes by JGH into 1.25.
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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by BeebMaster » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:11 pm

Here's a link to the B+ "conversion kit" instructions showing the additional components needed:

http://www.beebmaster.co.uk/BeebShop/Do ... dendum.pdf
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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by KenLowe » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:05 pm

BeebMaster wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:00 pm
I always thought it made sense to have a combined ADFS/Econet disc so people could write one disc image and have the file server code and a working Econet partition without having to do anything else.
I think that's where I want to get to. I just need to figure out how I'm going to create a suitably sized ADFS disk image for BeebSCSI, and then transfer the file server code across to that drive from my 8271 based Gotek drive or user port based MicroSD drive. I suspect Beebem will play a part in this! The logical files you provided may also play a part.

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Re: BeebMaster BBC B Econet Kit

Post by BeebMaster » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:55 pm

You can use any working ADFS image of any size up to the ADFS maximum of 512MB in BeebSCSI, SCSI2SD, IDE CF etc., whatever you are using. Just run WFSINIT from the L3 utils and it will set up the partition.
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