IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

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IanS
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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by IanS » Sat May 05, 2018 9:14 pm

Trapper wrote:If you make anymore I am definitely interested in both a 16-bit RISC PC and 8-bit A3010 versions.
What's the appeal of using it in an RISC PC? What is wrong with the on-board interface? These interfaces aren't the quickest ever, they don't do DMA, why would you use one on a RISC PC?

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by stevebubs » Sat May 05, 2018 9:51 pm

Need to come on here more... if you make any more, I would be interested in 2 or 3 of the 16bit ones
Last edited by stevebubs on Thu May 24, 2018 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by myelin » Sat May 05, 2018 11:24 pm

Is this an open source design or something with shareable gerbers so other interested folks can do a batch? I have an A3000 on the way and some in-progress HW designs, so I'd be interested in adding a set of the 8-bit mini-podule boards to my next Seeed order and sharing spares with others on this side of the pond, if it's available.

(No pressure if it's commercial / secret / not yet shareable, but I'm definitely interested if gerbers are available :) )
SW/EE from New Zealand, now in Mountain View, CA, making BBC/Electron hardware projects for fun.
Most interesting: Arcflash, FX2+PiTubeDirect Tube/Cartridge adapter, USB cart interface.

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by danielj » Sun May 06, 2018 9:28 am

IanS wrote: What's the appeal of using it in an RISC PC? What is wrong with the on-board interface? These interfaces aren't the quickest ever, they don't do DMA, why would you use one on a RISC PC?
As ADFS is borked on the RPC for SD-IDE & many CF cards (despite patches) and multipartitions are rather attractive :D

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by marcusjambler » Mon May 21, 2018 10:39 am

Hi Ian

Are you planning on selling the 8-bit boards with the DOM mounting?
If so please put me down for one. :)

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by IanS » Mon May 21, 2018 10:29 pm

marcusjambler wrote:Hi Ian

Are you planning on selling the 8-bit boards with the DOM mounting?
If so please put me down for one. :)
You had one of the original batch, did you get it working?

If I sell some more, would people be interested in buying a board with an included DOM (probably 4GB, ony 2GB usable on RO 3.11)?

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by aotta » Mon May 21, 2018 10:42 pm

If you can keep cost at reasonable level, I think DOM will be an interesting plus! I'd like it

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by myelin » Mon May 21, 2018 10:54 pm

IanS wrote:If I sell some more, would people be interested in buying a board with an included DOM (probably 4GB, ony 2GB usable on RO 3.11)?
I'm interested in an 8-bit board with included DOM for an A3000 running RO 3.11 (assuming reasonable pricing).
SW/EE from New Zealand, now in Mountain View, CA, making BBC/Electron hardware projects for fun.
Most interesting: Arcflash, FX2+PiTubeDirect Tube/Cartridge adapter, USB cart interface.

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by marcusjambler » Tue May 22, 2018 7:24 am

You had one of the original batch, did you get it working?
I'm planning on setting it up this weekend... Other stuff permitting :D

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by lcww1 » Tue May 22, 2018 7:49 pm

I’d certainly like to buy one of your RoundRect A3000 IDE mini-podules with a DOM :D

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by stevebubs » Thu May 24, 2018 12:09 am

IanS wrote:
marcusjambler wrote:Hi Ian

Are you planning on selling the 8-bit boards with the DOM mounting?
If so please put me down for one. :)
You had one of the original batch, did you get it working?

If I sell some more, would people be interested in buying a board with an included DOM (probably 4GB, ony 2GB usable on RO 3.11)?
Possibly.. depends on cost... sd/cf adapters are cheap and plentiful...

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by IanS » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:22 pm

I will have a few IDE interfaces (8-bit & 16-bit) for sale at the Abug event this weekend. Any that don't go at the weekend will be listed on here afterwards.

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by JonC » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:15 pm

IanS wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 10:29 pm
If I sell some more, would people be interested in buying a board with an included DOM (probably 4GB, ony 2GB usable on RO 3.11)?
I'd certainly be interested in an 8bit one for my A3000.
Jon
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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by Cutter » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:38 pm

I'd be interested in one 8bit and one 16bit if any are left after the meet.

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by Nutter » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:28 pm

I would be interested in whichever is most suitable for an A3000.

As a newcomer to the whole Acorn scene, I don't understand the difference (benefits) between an 8 / 16 bit version (hardware-wise). Also what is a DOM?

Sorry for the numpty questions but anything that allows mass storage on an A3000, I'd be interested in.

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by cmorley » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:02 pm

DOM = disk on module

It is solid state module which emulates a hard disk.

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by IanS » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:02 pm

Nutter wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:28 pm
I don't understand the difference (benefits) between an 8 / 16 bit version (hardware-wise).
It's mainly a physical restriction. The podule bus on the original Archimedes range was on a DIN41612 64-way connector, which had a 16-bit databus on it.
When the A3000 was introduced Acorn included an internal cut-down podule connector which only included an 8-bit databus. The A3000 is the only machine which also has a standard(ish) connector on the outside, this was 16-bit. The later A3010/A3020/A4000 only had the internal 8-bit podule connector.

So you can fit a 16-bit card externally to an A3000, but it wouldn't look pretty. You could also fit an internal 8-bit card. As they are very different connectors, you cant swap a card between the different podule connectors.

You get approximately half the data rate through the 8-bit card (~750K/s) as you do through a 16-bit card (~1500K/s).

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by stevebubs » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:38 am

Ian,

I'm assuming there were no cards left after the last meet?

Stephen

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IanS
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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by IanS » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:38 pm

stevebubs wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:38 am
I'm assuming there were no cards left after the last meet?
There are cards left, I just haven't got around to listing them. I'll try and do it tomorrow.

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by Nutter » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:19 pm

@IanS thank you for the explanation.

So the 8 bit fits internally to an A3000 but has half the data rate of an (external) 16 bit one - is this a correct interpretation?

Say I later bought an A3010, would I be able to use the A3000 unit in that?

Finally, is there a noticeable difference in the 2 data rates when for example loading a game? Obviously one is half the other but are you talking a significant difference?

Sorry if this takes your "for sale" post off topic, I can PM you post elsewhere if preferred. I would be interested in one of these units, just not sure which.

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by AndyMc1280 » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:38 am

IanS wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:11 pm
With the very kind help of John Kortink, I have a small number of IDE podules available. (5 of each type)

They both have 40 Pin 0.1" pitch connectors, so if you want to plug in a CF to IDE adapter you'll need to find one with a 40-pin header, or combine it with a suitable adapter.

The instructions for partitioning and formatting can be found in the download on John's web-site - http://www.zeridajh.org/software/zidefs/index.htm

I haven't done a lot of testing on RISC PC/A7000 series machines, but the 16-bit version should work fine. Most of my testing has been on A3xx/A4xx machines for the 16-bit podule, and an A3000 for the 8-bit podule.

Both types are available for £20 each. Ideally collected in-person at the Wakefield show this coming Saturday. I should be there from about lunchtime, till the show close.

A jumper on each board makes the board run as "ZIDEFS" or "IDEFS" as the filing system name. Unless you have an existing drive to use which may have hard-coded paths, I recommend using "ZIDEFS" (the device id, partitioning and !hform tools only work on "ZIDEFS")

You will probably have to organise some sort of adapter and power cable (specifically for the 8-bit version). Hopefully the boards are cheap enough to tempt you into a bit of DIY.

Let me know if you can collect (PM or add a reply) at wakefield on Saturday. Any left I may offer for £20 plus postage. Depending on interest I may look at producing another batch.
IMG_20180308_232310655_HDR.jpg
IMG_20180324_152649278_HDR.jpg

8-bit
1. RobC CAW*
2. Boydie CAW*
3. marcusjambler CAW*
4. z0m8ied0g CAW*
5.
post/second batch
markrwj - Posted
matt_nottm - Posted
SarahWalker - Posted

16-bit
1. paulv CAW*
2. z0m8ied0g CAW*
3. daveejhitchins CAW*
4.
5.
post/second batch
a.n.other (PM request) - Posted
Kazzie - Posted
matt_nottm - Posted
trixster- Posted
JonC - Posted

*CAW - collected at Wakefield
Is there a 16 bit card left?

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by AndyMc1280 » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:47 am

Nutter wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:19 pm

So the 8 bit fits internally to an A3000 but has half the data rate of an (external) 16 bit one - is this a correct interpretation?


Yes sort of..... although I'm not sure the external socket runs at full sixteen bit. I may be wrong.
Nutter wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:19 pm
Say I later bought an A3010, would I be able to use the A3000 unit in that?
Yes
Nutter wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:19 pm
Finally, is there a noticeable difference in the 2 data rates when for example loading a game? Obviously one is half the other but are you talking a significant difference?
IMO No - both are running on 1990-1992 era hardware. A new Compact flash card will be way faster than the interface and any period drive.

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by stevebubs » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:37 am

Nutter wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:19 pm
@IanS thank you for the explanation.

So the 8 bit fits internally to an A3000 but has half the data rate of an (external) 16 bit one - is this a correct interpretation?

Say I later bought an A3010, would I be able to use the A3000 unit in that?
Yes
Finally, is there a noticeable difference in the 2 data rates when for example loading a game? Obviously one is half the other but are you talking a significant difference?
Not really unless the game is *huge*.In terms of era, it's worth considering 750k/sec means a 4MB machine will be able to fill its memory in just a few secs.

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by iainjh » Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:05 pm

Hello

Missed the boat by miles perhaps but as I’m hoping to acquire/ fix up an A3000 I would love an 8bit board for an A3000.

If there’s a wait list / wish list! I’d love to be on it if ok

Tia!:)

Iain

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Re: IDE podules - 8 and 16 bit versions

Post by BBCmicro32k » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:45 pm

I'd love to get hold of a 16 bit version for my A310, if there are any available.

Thanks

Steve

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