Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

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matt_nottm
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Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by matt_nottm » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:31 pm

Econet upgrade kits:
IMG_0013.JPG
I'm not 100% that all the components are correct, I've took a photo for hopefully someone on the forum with more knowledge to confirm. The capacitors were interesting, one is certainly a 10µF 10V Tantalum Capacitor (polarised), but the other is supposed to be a 0.01 µF Ceramic Capacitor, but just looks like a "blob", I thought they were supposed to be a disc like shape?

The 68B54 certainly works, as I have been able to try this alongside known good units from Mark at RetroClinic, none of the other Econet interfaces I have access to are fully socketed.

*ALL SOLD*
Last edited by matt_nottm on Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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danielj
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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by danielj » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:06 pm

Modern ceramic caps are blobby and not disc shaped :) Components worth a check against this:
https://www.beebmaster.co.uk/BeebShop/D ... 20v2-5.pdf

Looks to be the real deal from a distance!

d.

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by 1024MAK » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:58 pm

Modern ceramic capacitors are of the multilayer type, and are then dipped in a protective coating. So they may well look like a 'blob'.

Mark

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by matt_nottm » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:41 pm

Ah, okay, so it looks like it is complete as per the advice here and the Beebmaster instructions linked above. Some of the TI ICs look fairly new as they have the lead free/green suffix. Other bits look older.

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by 1024MAK » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:13 pm

Despite all the talk about surface mount and discontinued through hole parts, a surprisingly large number of "glue" logic 74 series chips are still in production. The same applies to some other products in DIL cases.

Older chips may be NOS (new old stock). And be perfectly fine. Or may be 'pulls' from working equipment that had socketed ICs. If the suppliers tested them, then they should be okay.

Mark

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by lcww1 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:40 pm

I was about to start sourcing the components to add econet to my Beeb, so I’d be delighted to fit and test one of these kits if you still think that’s necessary - I’d be happy to reimburse you for the parts and p&p

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by chrisa » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:08 pm

My eBay cart is currently full of my attempts to put together upgrades for my two Model Bs, so I'd definitely be interested in a couple of kits if and when they're available!

I wouldn't be able to commit to finding the time to do one within a week though, unfortunately.


Chris.

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by matt_nottm » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:46 pm

Thanks lcww1, please drop me a PM and I'll sort you one out to test.

chrisa, once lcww1 has tested the parts to make sure they work, I'll arrange to sell on the other kits. I just want to make sure that I'm not selling eight duffs!

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by lcww1 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:31 pm

PM sent! Looking forward to getting started with this....... :D

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by torrind » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:14 pm

I too have recently been trying source via ebay a list of parts to upgrade by BEEB to Econet. I would also be interested in a kit if there are still any available.

Thanks.


Darren

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by matt_nottm » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:57 am

Current status as of 05/04/2018:

1. Testing - lcww1 [Paid and Posted]
2. chrisa - Chris [Paid and Posted]
3. chrisa - Chris [Paid and Posted]
4. torrind - Darren [Paid and Posted]
5. markrwj - Mark [Paid and Posted]
6. markrwj - Mark [Paid and Posted]
7. lcww1 - Liam [Paid and Posted]
8. torrind - Darren [Paid and Posted]
9. Bagpuss [Deposit Paid]

£40 per kit inc postage.

1. danielj - Daniel - Spare MC68B54P (tested) [Paid and Posted]
2. danielj - Daniel - Spare MC68B54P (tested) [Paid and Posted]
Last edited by matt_nottm on Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:37 pm, edited 23 times in total.

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by markrwj » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:10 am

I would take 2 if available! I have also spent time trawling ebay to try and pull together the components to build econet interfaces for my beebs. Much appreciated!

Mark

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by matt_nottm » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:06 am

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Last edited by matt_nottm on Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by trixster » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:28 pm

I'd be interested in a kit please matt, if there's one still available?
A3020 | A3000 | A420/1 | BBC B | Master Turbo | ZX48K | NeoGeo
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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by matt_nottm » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:39 am

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Last edited by matt_nottm on Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by torrind » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:58 pm

Afternoon Folks,

Quick question regarding Econet as I know little! :oops:

I am going to build my own Econet Clock to hopefully support this kit. Newbie question though - Can I test Econet installed in the BEEB and the clock using only one BEEB? ie connect the relevant cabling in a loop for example?

Is this possible without an additional BEEB?

Thanks,

Darren

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by danielj » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:15 pm

Yes - it'll say "no clock" if it can't detect a clock :)

d.

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by crj » Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:09 pm

torrind wrote:Newbie question though - Can I test Econet installed in the BEEB and the clock using only one BEEB? ie connect the relevant cabling in a loop for example?
Yes, you can have an Econet with just one station. But never make Econet cabling into a loop! You want it to be a single straight line (no forks) with a terminator at each end. The drop to each station should be as short as possible, no more than a metre or so.

Often, the clock is also one of the terminators (but not if it's in the middle of the cable!).

You've definitely got to have one terminator. But I've discovered in practice that on tiny networks (all on one desk, so small that the length of the cable is short in comparison with the length of the station drops) there's no need for a second.

Enjoy!

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by torrind » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:10 pm

Thanks for the clarification chaps. Much appreciated. I'll give it a shot and see how I go!

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by lcww1 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:11 pm

Success! :D

I picked up the Econet upgrade kit that Matt sent me this morning, and got to work as soon as I could!

I checked out the contents of the kit against the Beebmaster inventory (http://www.beebmaster.co.uk/BeebShop/NetKit.html):
econetkit.png
Econet kit parts
Everything was there, with the exception of the 2.2nF Ceramic Capacitor, which is only required for board issues 1, 2 & 3.

Here's my issue 4 Beeb, ready to be upgraded......
bbciss4.png
My Beeb, ready for an upgrade......
Here's my Beeb sporting it's new Econet interface, after a quick burst of soldering :D
BBCeconet.png
Kit fitted to BBC Model B issue 4
The PCB returned to the case for power up and testing:
BBCB.png
BBC board back in case for testing
And we have Econet! :D
BeebEconet1.png
Econet running on BBC B 1
BeebEconet2.png
Econet running on BBC B 2
The Beeb happily connected to my A5000 running the Level 4 awServer.

The kit doesn't include an NFS ROM, so I burned my own. I used the standalone NFS 3.60 from https://www.heyrick.co.uk/econet/eprom.html.

So, the kit is fab, and all is well. :D

Many thanks to Matt for unearthing these kits! =D>
Happy Econet hacking to all!

[EDIT - added a pic of my pre-upgrade Beeb, for posterity!]
Last edited by lcww1 on Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by crj » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:36 pm

You really should get around to setting a password for SYST, you know. :-p

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by matt_nottm » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:04 pm

Excellent news, thanks for testing Liam!

I will pick up and sort the remaining parts mid week and I will be able to post out next weekend.

Happy soldering...

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by lcww1 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:06 pm

crj wrote:You really should get around to setting a password for SYST, you know. :-p
Well, my little Econet is "Open for Business", as they say. 8)

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by BeebMaster » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:07 pm

Great find, these kits! Looking forward to hearing about lots more Econets in homes throughout the land!

I think the only point that isn't covered in my instructions is what to do when the 1770 disc interface has already been fitted and you need to remove the wire link from the socket of IC87. I don't remember that ever coming up before.

I'd recommend ANFS 4.18 in the BBC B, knocks the socks of NFS 3.60.
Image

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by lcww1 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:05 am

BeebMaster wrote:I'd recommend ANFS 4.18 in the BBC B, knocks the socks of NFS 3.60.
I was going to use ANFS 4.18, but was a little put off by the following on Rick Murray’s website:
[ANFS] Version 4.18 is for the BBC Micro, but it comes with a caveat that the value of PAGE will rise by &500 (1280 bytes), which may be a lot on a 32K machine, especially if you have a disc filing system installed too.
though maybe this isn’t so much of a problem in the end - anyhow, I’m now encouraged to burn an ANFS rom to check out it’s sock knocking potential :shock:

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by BeebMaster » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:59 pm

Yes, it does push PAGE up, but just compare *DUMP of a file under NFS and ANFS and it's worth it.

On the other hand the higher value of OSHWM might not be suitable for some games. If you have sideways RAM (which can easily be added using a 62256 chip and about 4 inches of wire) you can load ANFS as required and leave NFS in ROM. As long as the SRAM is a higher priority ROM than NFS, ANFS will be initialised first and disable NFS.

I have an "ANFS User" on my Econet file server so I can load ANFS 4.18 into SRAM at will on a BBC B station:

Code: Select all

*NEWUSER ANFS418
*CDIR $.ANFS418
*DIR $.ANFS418
*OPT 4,3
*BUILD !Boot
1 *SRLOAD $.ROMS.ANFS418  [for example; requires Library utility version of SRLOAD]
2 *BASIC
3 *FX 200,3
4 CALL!-4
[Escape]
Then *I AM ANFS418 will load it automatically and initialise.
Image

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by crj » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:28 am

It feels like it ought to be possible to spin or hack a sideways-RAM resident version of ANFS that uses some of that RAM for most of its workspace, keeping PAGE down at &1200 or better.

But, surprisingly, a glance at an ANFS ROM image suggests there's not much spare room.

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by matt_nottm » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:03 pm

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by lcww1 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:50 pm

BeebMaster wrote:Then *I AM ANFS418 will load it automatically and initialise.
That's smart - I like it! I think I'll organise my Econet along these lines. Thanks for sharing 8)

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Re: Possible BBC B Econet Upgrade Kit

Post by matt_nottm » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:07 pm

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