PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by Back2skooldaze » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:29 am

another update!! I formatted the sd card again FAT32 as default and i unzipped PiTueDirect egg eater and this time the coprocessors are working!
I seem to have lost the BBC's Beep on switching on or ctr and break but when switching on the BBC it automatically comes up with the 6502 co processor and i can type *FX 151,230, and what ever co processor number i want to try.
But i have lost the Beep sound and i want to have the coprocessor off as default
I'm going to try anaconda again and see if i can boot up but it appears to be what ever files i use in the sd card to use coprocessors but at least i now know the Pi zero is working!! I just need a good set of files where i have to activate the coprocessors myself i want the BBC to boot up as normal.
Last edited by Back2skooldaze on Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by Back2skooldaze » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:41 am

The anaconda files don't work? but with egg eaters it works but no beep sound and the coprocessor is activated on boot up?

Is there anyother files i can unzip and try or is there an updated anaconda ???

Is there any other version i can try on the Pi zero i can only get egg eaters to work but the co processor is on as default so need to find out how to deactivate it on boot?
Last edited by Back2skooldaze on Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by hoglet » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:38 am

Back2skooldaze wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:41 am
The anaconda files don't work? but with egg eaters it works but no beep sound and the coprocessor is activated on boot up?

Is there anyother files i can unzip and try or is there an updated anaconda ???
Anaconda is a very old release now. Egg-Eater is the correct release to use.

It's normal with a 6502 Second Processor that there is no second beep on power up (or Ctrl-Break)
Back2skooldaze wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:49 am
Is there any other version i can try on the Pi zero i can only get egg eaters to work but the co processor is on as default so need to find out how to deactivate it on boot?
To configure PiTubeDirect to be disabled on powerup, edit the file cmdline.txt on the SD Card and change copro=0 to copro=14

Then to re-enable a Co Pro use:
*FX 151, 230, 0
followed by Control-BREAK.

The final number can be changed to select different Co Pros:
https://github.com/hoglet67/PiTubeDirect/wiki

Dave
Last edited by hoglet on Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:41 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by Elminster » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:26 am

Have you used the tube connector before? They usually get tarnished and it doenst work. Often plugging and unplugging several times sorts the issue. Or use a carbon pen or something to clean them.

Yes you just need a fat file system with all the files in the root directory, a straight copy.

Anaconda is very old though [Edit: oops Hoglet said this bit already], why did you download that version. I would put the latest on, many bug fixes and faster than Anaconda.
Last edited by Elminster on Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by Back2skooldaze » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:47 pm

Hi Thanks for your replies :)

OK The reason i used Anaconda's is because i was following instructions on a website how to prepare an sd card once i had all my other parts together.
There is so many other packages/files i was confused as to which one to use ?
I spent over 2 hours unplugging the PiTubeDirect board and unplugging the Pi zero and reformatting the sd card to end up with the same result a black screen when switching on the BBC? I found once i pressed break or ctrl and break the BBC would come on as normal but when typing any *FX commands there was nothing happening?
So i took a break and then thought maybe its the files on the sd card thats causing my problem? So i had remembered that i downloaded egg eaters zip file ages ago when reading in to getting the Pi Zero working on the BBC as a co processor.So i formatted the sd card again and unzipped egg eaters files to the card and once i got it all back together in the BBC i switched on an hey presto a co processor 6502 64K. I was well chuffed to see that and i find when switching on i get a single tone beep oppose to the biirr beep i just get a low tone single beep.So now i discovered the Pi zero and the PiTubeDirect board are both working i started to type some *FX commands which all worked :) I then did the test program and that gave some very impressive speed readings which i took a photo off the monitor screen and tried to upload to the forum but the picture always ends up sideways or upside down? so i took it off.
Now at the moment i am using DiamondBack's files and they work good too! Now i know how to disable the co processor but what i wanted was to change in the config file to set the co processor to OFF as default and i can then call up a co processor when needed. I found on the sd card a file called cmdline and in there is a long string file copro=0 copro1speed=3 tube_delay=0 elk_mode=0 .So i then changed copro=0 to copro=14 but now when ever i switch on the BBC i get a black screen again? I have tried this with egg eaters too and the same happens? Also i have to mention my BBC has the RetroClinics datacentre in so would having 2 different sd cards inside the BBC make any difference ?
Last edited by Back2skooldaze on Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by Back2skooldaze » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:12 pm

OK I have put egg eaters files back on the sd card and i have changed in the cmdline copro=14 so when switching on the BBC i get 1 low tone noise not quite a beep and there is a black screen with a flashing cursor? Is this correct/normal behavior ?
Once i press the break key the BBC Computer screen appears with the Acorn 17770 DFS BASIC
So when pressing the ctrl and break i get the biir beep back and when typing in the *FX commands i can call up a co processor :) But is all this normal?
Why i mean normal i was expecting to switch the BBC on and get the biir beep and start up with the Acorn 1770 DFS screen as normal as though the BBC did not have anything attached to the Tube connector then after that i can call up a co processor when needed?

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by hoglet » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:25 pm

Back2skooldaze wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:12 pm
OK I have put egg eaters files back on the sd card and i have changed in the cmdline copro=14 so when switching on the BBC i get 1 low tone noise not quite a beep and there is a black screen with a flashing cursor? Is this correct/normal behavior ?
Once i press the break key the BBC Computer screen appears with the Acorn 17770 DFS BASIC
So when pressing the ctrl and break i get the biir beep back and when typing in the *FX commands i can call up a co processor :) But is all this normal?
Why i mean normal i was expecting to switch the BBC on and get the biir beep and start up with the Acorn 1770 DFS screen as normal as though the BBC did not have anything attached to the Tube connector then after that i can call up a co processor when needed?
This problem is I think specific to some model B's that happen to boot very quickly.

If the Model B boots very quickly, when the MOS tests for a Co Processor, the Pi has not completed it's boot, and so the "Null" Co Processor in the Pi is not able to answer correctly that there is no Co Processor.

This causes the MOS to hang until BREAK is pressed.

One of my Model B's does this, the other two don't.

Most people don't experience this bug, because they boot to an active Co Processor, not the Null Co Processor.

There are two possible fixes to this, both involve a bit of soldering:
1. Delay the Beeb's powerup reset by increasing the value of C8.
2. Add a pull-down to data line D0 on the level shifter.

I haven't tried either of these myself. If you are interested, I can test both of these fixes tomorrow and report back.

Dave

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by Back2skooldaze » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:31 pm

Thinking about it now Anaconda's files must have been working ok on the sd card.The reason i thought nothing was working is because the copro is already set to 14 oppose to 0 so there was the black screen waiting for me to press the break key then call up a co processor but i vaguely remember trying a *FX command and it did not work? So may be i was too stressed out and rushing things?

All i was expecting was the BBC to start up as normal with the screen displaying and the beeping noise as normal then i type an *FX command
Last edited by Back2skooldaze on Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by hoglet » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:39 pm

Back2skooldaze wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:31 pm
All i was expecting was the BBC to start up as normal with the screen displaying and the beeping noise as normal then i type an *FX command
Each newer PiTubeDirect release has added more Co Processors, which means a larger Kernel and a longer boot time.

I think we may also have switched to newer Pi Firmware to support the Pi Zero W and Pi 3 B+ models, which also happens to be slower to boot.

What this means is a few more people with Model B's get affected by this slow boot issue.

Are you able to solder?

Dave

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by Back2skooldaze » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:30 pm

Hi Dave, So i now see why i have to press break when switching on!

Why do you ask if i can solder?

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by hoglet » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:17 pm

Back2skooldaze wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:30 pm
Why do you ask if i can solder?
There might be a hardware fix which would involved adding a resistor to the level shifter (soldered across two pins of the Pi Connector).

This will pull down data line D0 to ground, causing the Beeb to ignore the PiTubeDirect until the Pi has booted.

It only makes sense if you want PiTubeDirect to be disabled on power up, and you are using a Model B.

I'll try to test this tomorrow.

Dave
Last edited by hoglet on Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by BigEd » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:40 pm

Is it a nice fast SD card you're using, and has it been freshly formatted with the official formatter before you put the files on? That might help. See
viewtopic.php?p=187771#p187771

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by Back2skooldaze » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:30 am

Hi Dave, yes please can you check to see if this can be done to the Pi Zero that would make things really nice :)

I am using a Sandisk Ultra 16GB class 10 UHS-1 and i formatted it on windows 10 i did not use any format program i just formatted as Fat32 default.
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by hoglet » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:11 am

Back2skooldaze wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:30 am
Hi Dave, yes please can you check to see if this can be done to the Pi Zero that would make things really nice :)
I've just tried this fix and it seems to work and the Null Co Pro no longer hangs the my Model B on power up.

Specifically, the fix is to solder a 10K resistor between Pin 24 (GPIO8) and Pin 30 (GND) on the Pi Connector:
IMG_1410.JPG
(Your level shifter will look different to this)

Here is a diagram that shows the Pi Connector Pinout looking down on the Pi.
PiPinout.PNG
(Pin 1 is at the end of the Pi Zero with the SD Card)

Please be aware that this also means that none of the other Co Pros are detected on first boot either. i.e. if you have copro=0 then when you first power up the Co Pro will not be detected. Only after doing a Ctrl-BREAK is the Co Pro visible.

So for most people, this mod is not very useful. It's only if you want to power up with no Co Pro active on a Model B that it helps.

Dave
Last edited by hoglet on Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:21 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by Back2skooldaze » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:16 pm

Hi Dave, Best to leave it as it is :) I would not know where to start with a resistor on the PiTubeDirect board?

I'm just waiting for a cable so i can use the Pi Zero externally on the BBC Master and see if it does it there? But once the BBC is on a quick press of the break is all it takes.Not too much trouble :!:

If i had known about this before i would not have panicked that the Pi zero was not working when infact it was when using anaconda's as its set to null co processor as default. I just hate switching something on and expecting one thing and getting something else ie. A big bang ! So when i switched the BBC on and i got a black screen and no beep i did not know what was wrong! So i've learn't something there :)

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by hoglet » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:25 pm

Back2skooldaze wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:16 pm
I'm just waiting for a cable so i can use the Pi Zero externally on the BBC Master and see if it does it there? But once the BBC is on a quick press of the break is all it takes.Not too much trouble :!:
It should work fine on the Master, that does a more comprehensive Tube test when the MOS boots.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by sundbyk » Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:11 pm

Hi,

I have added a DYI kit for people how like todo solder them-self.
Can be ordered here.
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by guddler » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:30 pm

Is the Master128 PSU up to the job of powering a PI2 or 3?

When you buy those things they need a 2A USB supply or they start complaining. That seems like a lot to be asking the Master's PSU to be doing. I've already got an internal DC in there.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by Elminster » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:38 pm

It will be fine.

My master has 2 co pros powered by master (internal and external).a Beebsid, gosdc, 2 carts, videonula, Ethernet module, external power to gotek. I did recently put a more powerful psu in my master, but more because I can, not because I needed 2.

You can still run a pi 3 b+ off a 1A psu and it works unless you hang lots of stuff off it, so it is t drawing 2amps.
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by guddler » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:53 pm

Blimey that is a lot!

More asking because I have a v2 that I've just retired from it's job as a reverse proxy. Haven't checked the exact version yet but given I don't need the fastest thing there is, if it works, it works.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by sundbyk » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:57 pm

Elminster wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:38 pm
It will be fine.

My master has 2 co pros powered by master (internal and external).a Beebsid, gosdc, 2 carts, videonula, Ethernet module, external power to gotek. I did recently put a more powerful psu in my master, but more because I can, not because I needed 2.

You can still run a pi 3 b+ off a 1A psu and it works unless you hang lots of stuff off it, so it is t drawing 2amps.
If I understand you correct you want to use a external power to the Pi.
Remember to remove the jumper on the signal converter when you do that.
1A power supplies may be enough since most of the Pi are shut down.

Kjell S.
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by guddler » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:01 pm

No, you misunderstand. I am asking for confirmation that the Master's internal PSU can provide the required 2A to power the Pi without it causing undue stress on the Master's PSU and ultimately leading to failure.

It seems that the requirement of 2A may be excessive however? Actually the foundations website says it needs 2.5A now - that's gone up since I last bought one.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by BigEd » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:09 pm

Fortunately, we're not using the Pi at full throttle with all peripherals, so we're by no means worst-case. Even so, for sure the Zero needs a lot less power than the 3. It might be good to know what experiences people have, for the various cases of a B or a Master powering a Zero, a 3, or another model. Perhaps also interesting to measure the current (when running Elite, for example.)

Also, we never write back to the SD card, which is where brownouts can be especially problematic.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by Elminster » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:33 pm

There is about 1.5 A,ps free at 5volts according to Simon calculations for his replacement psu project (which I added the other day to my master), but headless a pi and especially a zero won’t draw that much. I have a pi cluster, 4xpi zeros connected to a pi 3b+ running on a 2Amp connector. If you believed the 2 to 2.5 Amps bit I would need over 10 amps at 5v to run my cluster.
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by iainjh » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:39 am

I ordered another one for BBC B, this post is just to say it has just arrived, and to say another big thank you to Kjell:)

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by sundbyk » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:16 pm

iainjh wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:39 am
I ordered another one for BBC B, this post is just to say it has just arrived, and to say another big thank you to Kjell:)
Thanks, glad to help.

Kjell S.
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by guddler » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:49 pm

Does anyone know if buying from sundbyk's website via PayPal you use normal "Goods and Services" or what used to be called Gift (now friends and family)?

I did send a PM but it doesn't look like he's been on here this week.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by sundbyk » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:36 pm

guddler wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:49 pm
Does anyone know if buying from sundbyk's website via PayPal you use normal "Goods and Services" or what used to be called Gift (now friends and family)?

I did send a PM but it doesn't look like he's been on here this week.
Hi,

I send the package as "Goods and Service" with a value of €5 as electronic parts.
There have not been any problems with that and I have shipped near 400 units.

Kjell S.
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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by guddler » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:39 pm

Hi, sorry, I’m asking what option I need to select in PayPal, not how you send it.

One option you get charged the PayPal fees, the other option I do.

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Re: PiTubeDirect signalconverter for BBC Micro

Post by sundbyk » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:41 pm

guddler wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:39 pm
Hi, sorry, I’m asking what option I need to select in PayPal, not how you send it.

One option you get charged the PayPal fees, the other option I do.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I would appreciate if you send it as a gift.
If not they take 3% of the money.

Kjell S.
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