Games with problems

feedback, questions and discussion relating to www.bbcmicro.co.uk
roganjosh
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Re: Games with problems

Post by roganjosh » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:58 am

Hi Mick,

Splendid. The ideal solution. Thanks.

Alan

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lurkio
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Re: Games with problems

Post by lurkio » Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:45 pm

Something to bear in mind when testing games via the Play button on bbcmicro.co.uk is that you can switch to the experimental (and still slightly broken) installation of a more up-to-date version of JSBeeb by changing the text "jsbeeb" in the URL to "jsbeebng".
For example, the following URL --

-- would change to this:

In some browsers, on some platforms, the "NG" version of JSBeeb seems to have a better keyboard layout, as I recall. It also implements sound in some browsers that can't make any sound come out of older versions of JSBeeb. (You might have to click once in the JSBeeb window to kick sound into life.)
Btw, if you want to get rid of the broken image overlay in the NG install, you can add "&noborder" to the end of the URL, thus:

And if you want to get rid of disc-drive noises, you can add "&noseek":

:idea:


EDIT: Information obsolete. JSBeeb has now been upgraded on bbcmicro.co.uk.
Last edited by lurkio on Thu May 07, 2020 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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leenew
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Re: Games with problems

Post by leenew » Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:50 pm

Ooh! before I forget,
I had a message from a Master 128 user saying "Contraption" doesn't work.
What do we know about this?
I can't get to my Master at the moment...

Lee.

Michael Brown
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Re: Games with problems

Post by Michael Brown » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:02 pm

Now added full instruction to Lazer Cycle from Every Game Going that tell you how to skip the instructions and also how to use the control keys to best effect etc.
The game is on D026 in Section 3 of my 30th Anniversary thread.

regards,
Mick.

roganjosh
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Re: Games with problems

Post by roganjosh » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:08 pm

The version of Contraption on bbcmicro will certainly not work on a Master. Amongst other things it messes about with the system row multiplication code.

The attached version should work, though I haven't played it through. IIRC it's a version that has previously been posted to stardot.

Alan
Attachments
Contraption-Master.ssd
(200 KiB) Downloaded 21 times

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leenew
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Re: Games with problems

Post by leenew » Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:49 pm

Thank you
Early reports suggest this version is OK on the Master...

Let.

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billcarr2005
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Re: Games with problems

Post by billcarr2005 » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:12 pm

roganjosh wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:08 pm
The version of Contraption on bbcmicro will certainly not work on a Master. Amongst other things it messes about with the system row multiplication code.

The attached version should work, though I haven't played it through. IIRC it's a version that has previously been posted to stardot.

Alan
Presumably the version posted here?

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=10056&p=120230

roganjosh
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Re: Games with problems

Post by roganjosh » Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:21 pm

lurkio wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:45 pm
Something to bear in mind when testing games via the Play button on bbcmicro.co.uk is that you can switch to the experimental (and still slightly broken) installation of a more up-to-date version of JSBeeb by changing the text "jsbeeb" in the URL to "jsbeebng".
Useful info thanks. Neither version can coax my W10 Edge browser to produce anything but a black screen when 'play' is selected though. Not a problem for me as at least Firefox & Chrome work in W10. Just giving it a mench in case you weren't aware. I can't see any obvious settings to twiddle with in Edge but I seem to (very likely incorrectly) remember it used to work.

billcarr2005: Ta. Yes, that's the version.

Alan

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Re: Games with problems

Post by roganjosh » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:43 pm

Lords of Time (both versions using 'Play'). These suffer from the usual kinds of SAVE/RESTORE failures owing to WP/ACCESS settings.

Alan

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lurkio
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Re: Games with problems

Post by lurkio » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:47 pm

roganjosh wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:43 pm
Lords of Time (both versions using 'Play'). These suffer from the usual kinds of SAVE/RESTORE failures owing to WP/ACCESS settings.
I believe that's because the Play buttons for both versions of Lords Of Time link to an old version of JSBeeb which doesn't allow disc writes.

We could switch both Play buttons to a newer version of JSBeeb which enables writing to disc, but even then your savegames would vanish if you closed the browser tab! (Because the savegames would be written to a temporary disc-image stored in the browser cache. That's just how JSBeeb works -- including the latest version of JSBeeb.)

So would making the switch to a later JSBeeb actually improve the user experience at all? Or would it just give users a false sense of security, letting them think they'd saved their position permanently when in fact all their progress could be wiped out at the close of a tab?

:?:

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leenew
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Re: Games with problems

Post by leenew » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:30 pm

Do you think it would be a good idea to add notes to bbcmicro.co.uk to all games that offer a save facility Chet?

Lee.

roganjosh
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Re: Games with problems

Post by roganjosh » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:10 pm

Masters of the Universe - Super Adventure: Another one with SAVE/LOAD problems under 'Play'. It appears happy with the SAVE GAME command but doesn't produce a file on disc after choosing a numerical slot. It works OK from download.

Alan

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barbarossa69
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Re: Games with problems

Post by barbarossa69 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:11 am

Pharaoh's Curse by H-Soft is a game that doesn't play on bbcmicro.co.uk

(Well, it does, but you have to use jsbeebng rather than jsbeeb)

Is there any way it can be fixed? The version posted in the archive request thread under Disc027 works in BeebEm, and sort of works in JsBeeb with some screen interference, but it's better than it not working at all...

See thread for details:-

viewtopic.php?p=46292#p46292

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lurkio
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Re: Games with problems

Post by lurkio » Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:00 pm

barbarossa69 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:11 am
Pharaoh's Curse by H-Soft is a game that doesn't play on bbcmicro.co.uk (Well, it does, but you have to use jsbeebng rather than jsbeeb) Is there any way it can be fixed?
I've made an ad-hoc edit to the Play URL for this specific game.

But if we wanted to properly address the underlying issue, on a site-wide basis, then someone would have to upgrade the default installation of JSBeeb on bbcmicro.co.uk to the "ng" version (or newer). It's a question of the right volunteer finding the time to do the upgrade.

:idea:

iamaran
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Re: Games with problems

Post by iamaran » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:01 am

Reported on CASA, this game
http://bbcmicro.co.uk//game.php?id=2123
crashes at line 1570. Suggest removing the full colon.

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leenew
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Re: Games with problems

Post by leenew » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:12 am

Hi Aran,
Removed the offending colon.
Do you have any clues regarding the OPs other issue of "not encountering the ghosts"?

Lee.

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lurkio
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Re: Games with problems

Post by lurkio » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:46 pm

leenew wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:12 am
Do you have any clues regarding the OPs other issue of "not encountering the ghosts"?
Sometimes you do:

Screenshot 2020-04-14 at 13.39.50.png

And sometimes you don't!:

Screenshot 2020-04-14 at 13.41.10.png

I haven't dug into the code to figure out what's going on yet. But here's the sequence of commands to paste into BeebEm to get you to the place where the ghosts are meant to be. Note that this sequence is slightly different from the one at CASA (and not just because of the CANDELSTICK typo!):

Code: Select all

E
E
E
GET AEROSOL
W
W
W
N
N
W
N
EXAMINE COAT
GET KEY
S
E
N
N
GET VACUUM
N
N
E
GET MATCHES
E
N
E
GET SHOVEL
W
W
GET AXE
E
S
W
W
S
S
S
E
S
GET CANDELSTICK
READ BOOKS
E
EXAMINE DESK
OPEN DRAWER
GET CANDLE
EXAMINE WALL
SWING AXE
N
GET MAGIC SPELLS
READ MAGIC SPELLS
S
W
N
N
GET BATTERIES
LIGHT CANDLE
N
GET
COINS
E
E
U
E
GET SCROLL
SPRAY BATS
GET SCROLL
READ SCROLL
W
S
D
W
S
E
E
GET STATUE
UNLOCK DOOR
S
S
S
W

The CANDELSTICK typo:

Screenshot 2020-04-14 at 13.32.17.png

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leenew
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Re: Games with problems

Post by leenew » Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:21 pm

Yeah, I think it is line 430 that gives a 50/50 chance of seeing the ghosts...

Lee.

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lurkio
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Re: Games with problems

Post by lurkio » Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:10 pm

leenew wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:21 pm
Yeah, I think it is line 430 that gives a 50/50 chance of seeing the ghosts...
You might be right...

F703FF2C-238D-4EAA-BA32-3B9411F4690F.jpeg

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lurkio
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Re: Games with problems

Post by lurkio » Wed May 06, 2020 3:52 pm

Richard Toohey has now kindly upgraded the default installation of JSBeeb on bbcmicro.co.uk.

And almost immediately someone has sent us a bug report!:

We've had a bug report from a user of bbcmicro.co.uk about the game Hell-Hole: it freezes in JSBeeb when you go down to the bottom of the screen on the first level and try to collect the diamonds:

http://bbcmicro.co.uk/game.php?id=728

The bug manifests in the version of JSBeeb installed on bbcmicro.co.uk, which is now the same as the latest version of JSBeeb in this Github repo and also (presumably) the same as the version installed on bbc.godbolt.org, where the bug also manifests.

The bug doesn't manifest in Mac BeebEm: i.e. the game continues to play normally even after you've collected the diamonds. (I haven't tried Win BeebEm or any other emulators.)

Does anyone have any idea what might be causing the game to freeze in this way?

:?:

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vanekp
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Re: Games with problems

Post by vanekp » Wed May 06, 2020 7:06 pm

is it not maybe a problem because hellhole is a Electron game not BBC (denoted by the E in the file name)?
and also in my collection don't see a BBC version of the game.
I also notice the debugger does not work as it should on bbcmicro,
if you go to the debugger in Firefox and Chrome it shows the same data for the memory view (ABCDEFG)
JSbeebDebug.png
Though it seems to run fine in BeebEm (windows) without a problem.
Peter.

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lurkio
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Re: Games with problems

Post by lurkio » Wed May 06, 2020 7:29 pm

vanekp wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 7:06 pm
is it not maybe a problem because hellhole is a Electron game not BBC (denoted by the E in the file name)?
But the game works in BeebEm!

vanekp wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 7:06 pm
I also notice the debugger does not work as it should on bbcmicro
I don't know why. I don't really understand the JSBeeb debugger.

But you can download the .SSD disc-image, and then load it as a "local" disc at bbc.godbolt.org. Maybe the debugger will work there?

:idea:

EDIT: Ah, I notice that the game doesn't work in the B2 emulator on macOS. Hmm...
Last edited by lurkio on Wed May 06, 2020 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vanekp
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Re: Games with problems

Post by vanekp » Wed May 06, 2020 7:32 pm

yes it does work there with the debugger, and as you say it works in BeebEm.
Peter.

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lurkio
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Re: Games with problems

Post by lurkio » Wed May 06, 2020 7:34 pm

vanekp wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 7:32 pm
yes it does work there with the debugger, and as you say it works in BeebEm.
Yes, but I've just noticed that the game doesn't work in the B2 emulator on macOS! Hmm...

:-k

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SarahWalker
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Re: Games with problems

Post by SarahWalker » Wed May 06, 2020 8:30 pm

Looks to be a bug with the random number generator. Hell-Hole is using $8000-$8002 as a seed, which obviously depends on the current selected sideways ROM. On at least both DFS 0.9 and 1770 DFS 2.26 $8000-$8002 are all zero, which causes the generator to always return $ff, which causes the game to get stuck.

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vanekp
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Re: Games with problems

Post by vanekp » Wed May 06, 2020 8:45 pm

here is a modified version which seems to work on jsbeeb.
Disc041-HellHoleE.ssd
(200 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
maybe for the reason SarahWalker gives.
all I did was modify the loader HELL-HO (had to move the data up that sits about the basic program) to : -
160*LOAD HELL1
170*TAPE
180CALL&4A72
which probably then makes the BASIC ROM the default ROM fixing the problem mentioned by Sarah.
I 1st though it was maybe because its a tape program and nowhere in the code does it switch back to tape filing system which can also cause odd things with software.
Last edited by vanekp on Wed May 06, 2020 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Peter.

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lurkio
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Re: Games with problems

Post by lurkio » Wed May 06, 2020 8:46 pm

SarahWalker wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:30 pm
Looks to be a bug with the random number generator. Hell-Hole is using $8000-$8002 as a seed, which obviously depends on the current selected sideways ROM. On at least both DFS 0.9 and 1770 DFS 2.26 $8000-$8002 are all zero, which causes the generator to always return $ff, which causes the game to get stuck.
Aha! Thank you. That explains why it works in my BeebEm config (DFS1.2) but not in B2 (DFS2.26) or in the default JSBeeb config on bbcmicro.co.uk (DFS0.9).

I've now switched Hell-Hole over to a DFS1.2 config on bbcmicro.co.uk:
:idea:

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vanekp
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Re: Games with problems

Post by vanekp » Wed May 06, 2020 8:55 pm

that also seems to fix the problem :)
Peter.

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lurkio
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Re: Games with problems

Post by lurkio » Wed May 06, 2020 8:57 pm

vanekp wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:55 pm
that also seems to fix the problem :)
Thanks for your tape fix. That may be a better solution because you can't guarantee that everyone's desktop emulators will be configured to use DFS1.2, but they should all have a tape FS!

Reported.

:idea:

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sweh
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Re: Games with problems

Post by sweh » Thu May 07, 2020 1:09 am

SarahWalker wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:30 pm
Looks to be a bug with the random number generator. Hell-Hole is using $8000-$8002 as a seed, which obviously depends on the current selected sideways ROM. On at least both DFS 0.9 and 1770 DFS 2.26 $8000-$8002 are all zero, which causes the generator to always return $ff, which causes the game to get stuck.
Today I learn something! When you *RUN a program the filesystem ROM is left paged in. I don't think I've ever tested that in the past 35 years! Heh.
Rgds
Stephen

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