Help required for the new BBC games archive

feedback, questions and discussion relating to the Complete BBC Games Archive (beta site now open!)
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Arcadian
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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by Arcadian » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:16 pm

Is this with the full search term left in place within the field? e.g. 1985 ? If so, try deleting the '5' from the field and a pull-down should appear for all 198x options (that's what's happening here, at least).
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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by leenew » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:46 pm

Yep! That works perfectly... move along ... nothing to see here :lol:

Lee.

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by richardtoohey » Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:27 pm

Glad you answered that one, Lee, I wasn't exactly sure what was being asked. :lol:

Communication is a lot easier face-to-face in person!

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by Arcadian » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:35 pm

Just tried to search for 'Maze Man'

It returns the Go Software game by this name together with the Electron User game, but not the (type-in?) Virgin game.

Reason is because the Virgin game features a hyphen in the title ("Maze-Man").

Is is possible we can loosen the search mechanism, so that you don't need to enter a hyphen in order to locate games with hyphens in their title?
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by pau1ie » Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:55 pm

Arcadian wrote: the scans I created for the Stairway To Hell site
Thanks for these. Ideally I would like something with a higher resolution, and containing the whole of the inlay including any instructions, but these are better than nothing. If anyone has any games and wants to scan them and send them to me, please do so, and I will get them included in due course.
Arcadian wrote:Is is possible we can loosen the search mechanism
Yes, there are a number of options here. I'll have a look.
richardtoohey wrote:we changed the database name & password (not sure how we keep that information out of github, probably not a good thing to share?
Absolutely. I am sure git allows you to exclude a file (svn does), maybe excluding the db_connect file is the easiest thing to do? Or else create a copy with a dummy password and upload that?

I am still working on screenshots. I am about 1/2 way through the nearly 800 missing ones, so it will take me another week or so. While I like my BBC master, I think the site will look better with fewer pictures of it!

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by Arcadian » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:30 am

pau1ie wrote:
Arcadian wrote: the scans I created for the Stairway To Hell site
Thanks for these. Ideally I would like something with a higher resolution
Heh, those scans are indeed tiny by today's standards (back when I launched STH in '99 I only had 50Mb of webspace to play with, y'see ;) ). Anyway, they're there and ready if needed and could always be replaced with larger images further on down the line.
pau1ie wrote:and containing the whole of the inlay including any instructions
Hmm ... but adding full scans of instructions (including instruction books, manuals etc) really would be at odds with the overall goal and criteria we'd defined for the bbcmicro.co.uk project (remember, Mick has already typed up all available additional documentation for each game and included it within the programs themselves).

Sourcing/adding complete sets of hi-res scans is however totally within the scope of the 'Grand Unified Acorn Preservation Project' (as Lee refers to it!) and it simply wouldn't be prudent to maintain two sets of identical scans across two different sites.

I do think it's really important that we stick to the original brief* as closely as possible, as that way we can realistically complete bbcmicro.co.uk swiftly and in line with scope (we're 75% of the way there already thanks to your speedy dev work!) and then planning can start on the Guapp/Gapp ... which is a lot more daunting!

* = though it wasn't in the brief, adding 'play' buttons for online gaming via jsbeeb is a superb idea - hopefully it'll be straightforward to implement
pau1ie wrote:
Arcadian wrote:Is is possible we can loosen the search mechanism
Yes, there are a number of options here. I'll have a look.
Thanks.
pau1ie wrote:I am still working on screenshots. I am about 1/2 way through the nearly 800 missing ones, so it will take me another week or so.
Super - cheers for prioritising those, having a complete set of screengrabs will make a huge difference.
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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by lurkio » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:11 am

Great work, everyone! =D> =D> =D>
Arcadian wrote:adding 'play' buttons for online gaming via jsbeeb is a superb idea - hopefully it'll be straightforward to implement
Unless you want to host your own installation of JSBeeb (which might not be a bad idea, actually) I think it's just a case of enabling a feature called "CORS" on the server, and then you'll be able to link the "Play" button to the .SSD URL, via JSBeeb, like this:

http://bbc.godbolt.org/?autoboot&disc=h ... MAGICT.ssd

This doesn't currently work for the .SSDs on bbcmicro.co.uk because, I think, CORS isn't enabled.

:?:

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by Arcadian » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:05 pm

Ah, yes I remember now - we had to enable CORS on the Stairway To Hell server to enable JSBeeb to access the STH disc images.

I'm sure it will be doable on bbcmicro.co.uk too ...

re: the possibility of installing jsbeeb onto the server ... as one of the goals of the new site is to keep long-term maintenance requirements to a minimum, it may well be preferable for us to simply load/push images into the existing jsbeeb site.

But will wait and see what Lee and the others think ... !
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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by pau1ie » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:48 pm

lurkio wrote:I think it's just a case of enabling a feature called "CORS" on the server
I never knew that.

I would suggest hosting jsbeeb because then the site is self contained, so it doesn't matter if http://bbc.godbolt.org/ goes offline etc. Once that is decided it is easy to add a link as Lurkio suggests.
Arcadian wrote:back when I launched STH in '99 I only had 50Mb of webspace to play with,
Yes, and many people only had dial up modems. I remember getting annoyed because someone sent me a 6M email I had to download over dial up!
Arcadian wrote: adding full scans of instructions (including instruction books, manuals etc) really would be at odds with the overall goal and criteria we'd defined for the bbcmicro.co.uk project
Ah - if I had seen that I had forgotten about it. Makes sense.

For now I will finish off scans, then tweak the title search, then look into the other enhancements.

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by Arcadian » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:43 am

pau1ie wrote:I would suggest hosting jsbeeb because then the site is self contained, so it doesn't matter if http://bbc.godbolt.org/ goes offline etc. Once that is decided it is easy to add a link as Lurkio suggests.
Ok cool - do you want to look into that then, drop Matt Godbolt a line etc?

If we're hosting locally do we still need CORS enabled (Chet?).
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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by Matt Godbolt » Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:24 pm

Sounds like an awesome idea :) Thanks for emailing me; jsbeeb is open source so grab it and do what you need to make bbcmicro.org.uk as fantastic as possible :)

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by pau1ie » Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:37 pm

Arcadian wrote:Ok cool - do you want to look into that then, drop Matt Godbolt a line etc?
I dropped Matt Godbolt a line and he responded almost immediately.
Thanks for the heads-up! jsbeeb is open source in the true sense, so please feel free to embed it in your app :) A link to the github repo of jsbeeb and/or the main site would be appreciated but not necessary!
I will look into getting it working on my test server and adding a play button. I don't believe CORS will be needed for this as the origin will be the same for the data and the javascript.

I don't think Richard has set up a github account yet for the source, so can I have the latest version of the source? I don't think db_connect.php has changed, so don't bother sending that - no need to leak the password to the DB!

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by Arcadian » Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:49 pm

I don't have the latest source, we'll need to wait for Richard to pop in... ;)
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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by sydney » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:25 pm

Plan B 2 is incorrectly listed as Mission Unlikely.
I am still working on screenshots. I am about 1/2 way through the nearly 800 missing ones, so it will take me another week or so. While I like my BBC master, I think the site will look better with fewer pictures of it!
I presume you are doing it in numerical order? If so I can start at the end and work my way down as I'm off work tomorrow. How do you want them named?

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by leenew » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:28 pm

Remember me asking about games with brackets in the title Simon?
This is one of them.
Listed as Mission Unlikely (Plan B2)
The brackets will have been ignored.
It needs renaming (even better still re naming on Mick's DSD so the alphabetical sorting still matches up.
I will message Mick.
Cheers

Lee.

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by pau1ie » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:47 pm

Please name them as per the disc image, but with the extension changed as appropriate.

I am running down the file I posted on May 10th (missing.txt) in order, and am currently at Disc0080 ish

I id start looking at everygamegoing, but the first few I tried didn't have the screenshots I wanted, so I wrote a script to fire up each image in turn and take a screenshot when I wanted. I just have to wait for each game to load and press enter, but it will only work in linux:
for file in $( cat missing.txt )
do
screenie="screenshots/$( basename $file .ssd ).png"
if [[ -f $screenie ]]
then
echo OK: $screenie
else
~/Programs/b-em/B-emV2.2Linux/b-em discs/$file &
echo $screenie
read
import -window b-em $screenie
pkill b-em
pkill -9 b-em
fi
done

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by daveejhitchins » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:53 am

daveejhitchins wrote:Yes, it was an enormous help. I'm adding sub Genres as we speak! I'm now going to follow the Beeb archive method.
It's really good to see the site evolving, however, I see the Genre list is different from Arcadian's original! Is there a definitive list of Genres and Sub-Genres? I'm at the point of needing this ASAP for the MGC Menu program . . . [-o<

Thanks - Dave H :D

p.s. Is there a reason why there seems to be 'empty' spaces at the bottom of a page - even though there are multiple pages?
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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by leenew » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:55 pm

Hi,
This is going to be an interresting test of how easy it is to edit the site.

Attached are the newly renamed Plan B 2 ssd and the new spreadsheet to go with it.
Disc034-PlanB2MissionUnlikely.zip
(13.66 KiB) Downloaded 40 times
Software - Updated by Lee and then by DM!.xls
(504.5 KiB) Downloaded 54 times

Oooh! Almost forgot, Paul, you may notice an extra column - column E.
This has release information:
R=commercial release
O=Other (at the moment all listings and magazine/book type ins)
U=Unreleased Game
A=Alternative version of a released game
C=Cheat version or cheat enhancement.
N=New software, currently set at year 2000 onwards


Mainly FAO Paul!!

Lee.

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by pau1ie » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:46 pm

I have completed taking the screenshots, I just need to put them into the database, which I should be able to do on Friday. Who has access to the site to upload them?
daveejhitchins wrote:I see the Genre list is different from Arcadian's original! Is there a definitive list of Genres and Sub-Genres
I just took the spreadsheet, made it slightly more consistent and removed some rarely used genres. See the attached file for the list, but nothing stops anyone from adding more. Also there is no real difference between a Genre and Sub-genre apart from the fact that that is how they are used. I believe genres are also used as subgenres in many cases.
daveejhitchins wrote:Is there a reason why there seems to be 'empty' spaces at the bottom of a page
Originally I set the items per page to 60 which is a nice number as it divides by 1,2,3,4,5 and 6. It is the number of items the lemon64 site has per page, but firefox bogged down when debugging so I changed it to 30, which doesn't divide by 4. I will change it to 36 when I get a chance because it divides by 1,2,3 and 4 which is the number of columns the site has depending on how wide the window/screen it is being displayed on is.
leenew wrote:This is going to be an interesting test of how easy it is to edit the site.
So far as I can see the image file is renamed, but there is no difference between the discs. Therefore we can update the row in the database to change the filename. Connect and use the correct database, then issue:
update images set filename = 'Disc034-PlanB2MissionUnlikely.ssd' where filename = 'Disc034-MissionUnlikelyPlanBPart2.ssd';
It should reply:
Rows matched: 1 Changed: 1 Warnings: 0
Make sure you update the file in the operating system as well.
Attachments
genres.txt
(18.59 KiB) Downloaded 39 times

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by daveejhitchins » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:38 am

Many thanks for the Genre list and the explanation . . . it's appreciated.

Dave H :D
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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by Arcadian » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:12 pm

pau1ie wrote:Who has access to the site to upload them?
Have just emailed you the ftp details ...
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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by leenew » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:14 am

Good work on the screenshots on bbcmicro.co.uk :D =D>

I have just noticed a couple of minor ponts:

The Revs screenshot is incorrect.
Holed Out, Zen, E-Type, and Astroblaster are missing.
Gomoku by 2 different software houses have the same screen shot.

**If anyone spots anything else - please let us know 8)

Keep up the hard work!!

What'sthe next 'feature' being worked on?

Lee.

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by Pernod » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:49 am

Can I suggest that all screenshots in MODE7 should be replaced.

They look like they were taken with an old emulator where the SAA5050 was not implemented correctly. There's no character rounding and double height characters are not vertically aligned correctly. See http://bbcmicro.co.uk/game.php?id=1741
- Nigel

BBC Model B: ATPL Sidewise, Acorn Speech, 2xWatford Floppy Drives, AMX Mouse, Viglen case, BeebZIF, etc.

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by tricky » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:01 pm

If you go to the about page, the menu doesn't work and you have to choose back. This is probably only an issue if you got there from a search engine.

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by leenew » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:04 pm

Thanks Tricky and Pernod.
Both are good points.
The mode 7 screenshots do look poor.
From the 'about' page, I just choose 'Games'.
There is a little bit of tittivation to be done on the site presentation I think.


Lee.

**EDIT** Not all the Mode7 games look rough http://www.bbcmicro.co.uk/game.php?id=1729

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by pau1ie » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:17 pm

leenew wrote:The Revs screenshot is incorrect.
Holed Out, Zen, E-Type, and Astroblaster are missing.
Gomoku by 2 different software houses have the same screen shot.
Was just about to say I have completed the screensots apart from Zen and Astroblaster, which I had trouble with. Zen said the disc was read only even when I unticked the read only option, I couldn't get anything out of Astroblaster, possibly because I needed to enable shadow RAM on b-em. I will fix Holed Out and E-Type.
Pernod wrote:They look like they were taken with an old emulator where the SAA5050 was not implemented correctly.
I think it is just the ones taken from Pitfall Jones' application which were scaled up for this web app. It is a combination of them being old, and scaled up that is the trouble I expect. The ones I took I think are OK. Most of my screenshots are named for the disc image, so start DiscNNN...

I have also uploaded the code to github:
https://github.com/pau1ie/bbcmicro.co.uk

I am a bit busy this week, so won't get much done on this, but I will try and fix up some of the major issues people have raised.

Cheers

PaulH

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by Arcadian » Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:02 pm

leenew wrote:The Revs screenshot is incorrect.
Holed Out, Zen, E-Type, and Astroblaster are missing.
Gomoku by 2 different software houses have the same screen shot.

**If anyone spots anything else - please let us know 8)
Screenshot for David McKeran's Pucman isn't representative of David McKeran's Pucman!

(Try the game and you'll see what I mean! ;) )

Edit: Screenshot for Meteors by Your Computer is also wrong (it's showing Acornsoft Meteors).
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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by Arcadian » Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:58 pm

leenew wrote:Oooh! Almost forgot, Paul, you may notice an extra column - column E.
This has release information:
R=commercial release
O=Other (at the moment all listings and magazine/book type ins)
U=Unreleased Game
A=Alternative version of a released game
C=Cheat version or cheat enhancement.
N=New software, currently set at year 2000 onwards
Have done a mockup of how the page could look once the version info is incorporated (by default only Commercial Releases, New Software and Unreleased Titles would be enabled). Would this be reasonably straightforward to implement?
bbcmicro.co.uk_statusmockup.png
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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by tricky » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:07 pm

I was on my phone, and I will check, but I don't think that the games button was there/didn't do anything.
AstroBlaster, I seem to have broken something with my last "fix", but have it working again, I just wan't to test it on a good selection of beebs before I cause MB to change his disk again!

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Re: Help required for the new BBC games archive

Post by pau1ie » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:57 pm

Arcadian wrote:Have done a mockup of how the page could look once the version info is incorporated (by default only Commercial Releases, New Software and Unreleased Titles would be enabled). Would this be reasonably straightforward to implement?
Shouldn't be too hard to do something along those lines, though I am constrained a little by bootstrap. How much do you want controls along the top? Putting controls at the top of the screen pushes the screenshots down the page, which I feel reduces the impact of the site, but I am not a designer by any means.

How should it interact with the search box? Are you comfortable with someone searching for a title and not finding it by default because it is non commercial?

I am wondering if it would be simpler for a new user to let them all default to on, then they can be clicked off if required. While I suspect you want to showcase the best games, I wonder if defaulting to hiding some games might make the interface awkward to use.

Anyway it will be a couple of weeks before I get round it this because I feel I should correct the worst problems in what already exists (Though I can't bring myself to update all the mode 7 screenshots just yet)

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