Bug in Blagger #2

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Dave Footitt
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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by Dave Footitt » Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:00 pm

lurkio wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:03 pm
Neither do I, so I patched BoggyBobby's savestate in the same way that you patched the game (changing a BEQ to a BCS), and I then loaded the patched savestate into BeebEm, and I was suddenly able to complete level 4!
Great stuff. I wonder if this was a twisted design decision, can you actually complete level 4 collecting only 5 keys or is that just impossible?

Of course the patch above means you don't need to collect all keys in the room to progress but I think in the modern day that's a bit more acceptable!

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lurkio
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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by lurkio » Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:12 pm

Dave Footitt wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:00 pm
can you actually complete level 4 collecting only 5 keys or is that just impossible?
Dunno, because that case is almost impossible (for me) to test! This is a very unforgiving game!

:evil:

Michael Brown
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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by Michael Brown » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:42 am

WOW! excellent stuff!

There's just one thing bothering me and I don't know if anyone else sees the same thing here.

All levels except level 4 only feature 5 keys.
Looking at level 4s layout, there are 5 keys plus 6 together in the top middle left and 17 along the very bottom. Looking at our these are placed makes me think they are an error and should not be there.
Is it possible to find the code for these and remove them and see how that games plays.

If more levels had this amount of keys then fair enough, but none of them do and that strikes me as odd.

Mick.

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by Michael Brown » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:49 pm

OK,
If you *LOAD the game (that is the cheat version for now) at &1500, then the code for THE CAVERN (level 4) is stored between &3E00 and &3F00.
I have found the offending extra keys (&BB) and removed them so the 6 keys at the top and 16 of the 17 at the bottom have now gone.
This now just leaves 6 keys for the game.
One of these must be wrong, but I do not know which as I am no good at playing.

If someone could load the test game here and play the level and let me know which key is hard/impossible to get (or way too easy!) then I will try to remove it and hopefully then, we will have a competable game.

Mick.
BLAGGER2TEST.zip
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Michael Brown
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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by Michael Brown » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:05 pm

Just taken another look.

2 things,
firstly I think the extra key is the one at the bottom right. I have now removed it leaving just 5 keys to collect.

secondly, I think the white/magenta graphics above the blue/white and directly below where the 6 keys were is also a error as you cannot walk on them, only the blue below and they also make the boot look strange so I have removed those as well.

Hopefully, this level is now completable with just 5 keys.

Mick.
BLAGGER2TEST.zip
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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by Michael Brown » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:25 pm

One last thing.

The glitch on level 1 in the bottom right where you can go off screen.
If you load the game at &1500 then the offending block is &3BBC which is &12 (a brick/block). If you change this to &22 (a magenta/white block then this should stop you bouncing off the ceiling.

See what you think.

If this, and level 4 are OK, then this can be patched into the main game and we will then have a playable game.

Mick.
BLAGGER2TEST.zip
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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by Michael Brown » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:22 pm

One more thing...

Looking at level 7 (I'M LOST) there would appear to be 2 of those magenta/white boxes in the border at the top of the screen. No other level seems to have anything like this, so are these another error.
The test below has them removed and I have been able to jump across where they were without any problems, so they don't seem to be needed for anything.

Again, any input in this matter would be useful.

The aim is to have a working, playable version of Blagger 2 with no faults.

Maybe another disc with a better version may come our way, but maybe it won't as maybe there isn't one.
So this may be the best chance we have of sorting it.

Mick.
BLAGGER2TEST.zip
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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by Michael Brown » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:24 am

Here's the game put back together.

I have amended Level 1 and &3BBC is now &02 to put a blank space in the bottom right corner area instead of that magenta/white block I had put there before as that seemed redundant to the game.

Everything else is as it was.
Level 4 has 5 keys
Level 7 has the border.

Just one very last thing here.
The name.
I have Blagger 2 and Blagger #2 but it was also known as Blagger 3 and New Blagger, so what should it be called?
BLAGGER 2, BLAGGER #2, BLAGGER II, BLAGGER 3, BLAGGER III or NEW BLAGGER
Now is the time to change it if necessary.

maybe simply BLAGGER 2 in all files?

Mick.
BLAGGER2TEST.zip
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Last edited by Michael Brown on Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by BoggyBobby » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:35 am

I go away for a couple of days and look what happens!! :D

This is fantastic, great work guys. I had completely missed the five-keys-per-level thing, and this explains why level 4 was faulty. I've loaded the original level 4 with the intention of getting exactly five keys, but this is absolutely impossible because you have to go along the top left to reach the lower areas, and this forces the acquisition of more than five. Clearly the rows of keys at the top and bottom must go (and indeed have been removed now).

I'm happy with the edits that have been made in levels 1, 4 and 7. I intend to play the game through to the end of level 7 in the near future, using Michael's latest version, just to be 100% sure it's okay. I'll post here when I'm done.

Regarding the name, yes that's an issue as well, because lots of gamers will erroneously think "Blagger 2 = Son of Blagger". I'll give this some thought.

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by BoggyBobby » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:51 am

I'm thinking we could take inspiration from the NES Mario series and call it: "Blagger: The Lost Levels".

Otherwise, something in the spirit of "Son of ..." and "[Frankie] Goes to Hollywood", i.e. from 80s movies and pop music.

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by lurkio » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:26 am

BoggyBobby wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:51 am
Otherwise, something in the spirit of "Son of ..." and "[Frankie] Goes to Hollywood", i.e. from 80s movies and pop music.
Blagger Too
Blagger Strikes Back
Blagger 2: Blagment Day
Blagger 2: On The Blocks
Blagger 2: Electric Blaggaloo

:roll:

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by BoggyBobby » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:31 pm

Haha!

I have completed levels 1-7 using the latest edited disc-image version, and can confirm that everything works. One other thing that should be corrected, which has no bearing on gameplay, is the misspelling of level 8, i.e. "DECSEND" should be "DESCEND". There's also the trivial issue of a space before the exclamation mark for level 1 but no space for level 2.

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by Michael Brown » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:57 pm

Here you go!

I have made it THE MILE!

also DESCEND

as for the name, I think it should be put back to NEW BLAGGER as I remember seeing that on various floppies BITD.

I think we need input from others for the name!

Mick.

BLAGGER2TEST.zip
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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by BoggyBobby » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:00 pm

Excellent.

Well, if you remember that, that must be the first choice for the name. Will you edit the in-game title screen accordingly?

I've had another idea -- Blagger: First Blag Part 2 -- but maybe we should stop thinking these up!

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by lurkio » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:20 pm

It's a shame we can't go with something whimsical like Blagger 2: Blag Harder -- but I grudgingly concede that we should probably go with NEW BLAGGER if there's evidence (i.e. Mick's memory!) that that's what it was originally called.

:idea:

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by Dave Footitt » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:49 pm

Nice work Mick, level 4 looks good!

Regarding the removal of the bricks I'd be tempted to leave them in place- for example just on level 1 there's 2 other places you can jump under that particular brick and fall through the floor. On the level "Death" you start under one of these bricks and just jumping will cause you to fall through the floor to die etc. etc.

New Blagger probably as good a name as any :lol:

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by Michael Brown » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:14 am

Maybe that block in the bottom right should be one of those things that costs you a life if you touch it to make that corner more hard.
Also it should be possible to remove the other 2 blocks in the top right to make that level unbreakable.

As for level 12 maybe the block you start on is designed to do that if you jump.
However, in the middle top of the screen is a ladder and a block is under it and under that is another block and jumping off that block into the one above causes the fallthrough. It looks like blocks need to have 3 space, not 2 spaces between them to prevent this.
Or maybe the offending blocks should be something else?

This is fixable, but how much of the game are we going to change before it becomes too altered.
A bit of a question, do you leave it faulty and buggy or do we fix it the best we can.

Maybe we should check each level and find any offending blocks, then ask forum members what is a the best substitute for them. ie. blank, Magenta block, blue vanishing floors etc.

Mick.

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by lurkio » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:26 am

Michael Brown wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:14 am
Maybe that block in the bottom right should be one of those things that costs you a life if you touch it to make that corner more hard. Also it should be possible to remove the other 2 blocks in the top right to make that level unbreakable.
But then you'd be significantly changing the design and content of the game. You've gone beyond fixing bugs at that point.
Michael Brown wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:14 am
how much of the game are we going to change before it becomes too altered.
We should stick to fixing bugs, I think.

(I mean as far as the "canonical" copy on bbcmicro.co.uk is concerned. Of course, anyone can hack a game any way they like for their own amusement -- and then possibly even submit it to bbcmicro.co.uk as an alternative version, or as a new sequel, or as a fun hack. But we still need at least one canonical version of every game that's as authentic as possible while allowing for bugfixes.)
Michael Brown wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:14 am
A bit of a question, do you leave it faulty and buggy or do we fix it the best we can.
The only actual bug in Blagger #2 (The Wrath of Blag) was that level 4 was uncompletable (because of too many keys). The other oddities we've discovered in this thread have just been quirks, and perhaps slightly dodgy design -- but they don't actually stop you from completing the game.

:idea:

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by BoggyBobby » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:29 am

The block we removed in the bottom right of level 1 is irrelevant, in that you don't need to go to that corner at all (you can jump to and from the ladder at the bottom middle) and even if you do go there, it doesn't affect your movement. This is why I didn't mind seeing it go -- although I would probably have replaced the brick with a transparent/spinning block.

I wouldn't be surprised if the starting place in level 12 is a trap (although why would you jump up?) and I don't regard the place to the left as buggy, but rather as quirky. And I agree with lurkio that these things should be left as they are for the definitive version of New Blagger. In fact the version we have right now can, IMO, be uploaded for general consumption.

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by Michael Brown » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:58 am

OK,
I will put that magenta block (&22) back &3BBC in Level 1 and leave the rest as it is.
As you say you can fall through blocks, but not get stuck off screen.
I will sort this plus the new name asap.

Mick.

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by Michael Brown » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:11 am

OK
Here's the NEW BLAGGER disc.

Hopefully, this will satisfy everyone's hopes.

Mick.
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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by leenew » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:18 pm

In my opinion there is no canonical version.
This game was never released, and nobody seems sure where it came from.
It could have been (a slightly bugged) playground hack.
But, as lurkio says, just fix the obvious bugs, and leave it at that!

lee.

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by BoggyBobby » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:31 pm

Re its official status and legitimacy, I would offer the old army saying of "if it looks like a duck".

I think Mick has now furnished us with the finished product =D>

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by Arcadian » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:03 pm

This has been a fascinating 'restoration' project to follow, well done to all involved!
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by Michael Brown » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:32 am

It would be nice if the author or anyone from Alligata could tell us if this was ever given to them, or considered for publication, or if it was just a simple hack passed around amongst friends etc.

Anyway, I have now copied it back onto my Disc022 and reposted that disc.

Also, as a bonus, I have copied it back onto a Cheat Disc and you can now start at any level with up to 255 lives.
PS Make sure you press space before the screen changes as you start at whatever screen is displayed regardless of what level you selected.

Mick.
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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by lurkio » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:17 am

Michael Brown wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:11 am
OK Here's the NEW BLAGGER disc. Hopefully, this will satisfy everyone's hopes.
Great work, Mick!

=D> =D> =D>

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by richardtoohey » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:40 pm

leenew wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:18 pm
In my opinion there is no canonical version.
This game was never released, and nobody seems sure where it came from.
It could have been (a slightly bugged) playground hack.
But, as lurkio says, just fix the obvious bugs, and leave it at that!

lee.
But is it the authentic game now? :-k I mean, if you want the real retro BITD experience you'll have to play the version with the bugs, won't you? :-s

Only joking! Good work on the retro-archeology & bug-fixing! =D>

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Re: Bug in Blagger #2

Post by leenew » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:37 am

Hi,
I contacted Ross Goodley, the author of Blagger.
He has confirmed that this game was not an Alligata project and that he had nothing to do with it.
It looks like "Mitch" just did a bit of hacking.
He also confirmed that "Wallie's Castle" is not one of his games. everygamegoing has it as a Ross Goodley game, but again, it looks to just be a hack.

Lee.

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