Post editing

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MartinB
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Post editing

Post by MartinB » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:32 pm

Hello - Since the upgrade, if you post something and then edit it a few times (as we do), but before anyone else adds a following post, you now see the ‘last edited by’ and number of edits by default. Previously, this would only show if you edited your post after another post had been added. I don’t like it and it looks rubbish... [-( =; :(

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lurkio
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Re: Post editing

Post by lurkio » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:37 pm

I agree.

:(
Last edited by lurkio on Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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1024MAK
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Re: Post editing

Post by 1024MAK » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:05 pm

It's a result of the administrators making some 'behind the scenes' changes rather than a result of the upgrade. The reason being to allow better moderation of posts where the rules have been broken, or a poster has said something that is not acceptable.

It was thought that this change would be seamless to normal members. So sorry about this unexpected change in the behaviour of the forum.

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MartinB
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Re: Post editing

Post by MartinB » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:19 pm

Well, it’s certainly not seamless and, as I said before, it looks really rubbish. It’s the sort of thing that will actually discourage me from posting and I certainly can’t see any benefit to admins. The previous system made perfect sense - you could see if someone had edited following a reply - this approach makes no sense whatsoever and I hate it to be blunt.

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IanS
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Re: Post editing

Post by IanS » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:23 pm

I like it. Just because there haven't been any follow-up post, doesn't mean that people haven't read it before it was edited. Showing that it has been edited shows that it may be different to what was originally read.

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MartinB
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Re: Post editing

Post by MartinB » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:32 pm

I don’t think it will actually work for you as you think Ian - certainly only if you start making mental notes for each post regarding the number of edits present when you read each one, together with the time you read it and the time of the edit. I’m talking about people spotting errors and omissions etc as they publish a given post which pushes the edit count up several times in a matter of seconds. Just go and look at me and Ken having a conversation on the I2C thread - it just looks dreadful.

(.....and I haven’t just done these edits on purpose - it’s pathetic tbh)
Last edited by MartinB on Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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IanS
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Re: Post editing

Post by IanS » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:55 pm

The "Last Edited" bit is below the post seperator. Like email sigs I mentally filter them out, I hadn't even noticed the editing in the I2C thread. But it's nice to have the information available, if needed, "I'm sure that post said something different when I first read it". More transparency, if it also shows where moderators have edited a post, even better.

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Re: Post editing

Post by danielj » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:31 am

Actually, pretty much all other boards show this - it's on by default in this installation.

From a moderation point of view it is useful as it does let people know when we've changed things, and also when things have been changed. Given some of the current issues we've had (which you probably won't have noticed because we tidied them up fairly rapidly), knowing that posts had been edited and when they'd been edited and who by was really key in making a decision about what to do - knowing that it was the OP that had made the edit and not someone having hacked the account.

I will see if it's possible to only make it visible to mods, but that would seem to be somewhat less transparent.

Edit: It does show if a mod/admin has edited a post.
Last edited by danielj on Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MartinB
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Re: Post editing

Post by MartinB » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:48 am

I can see I'm not getting anywhere so I'll leave it but just be aware everyone that this is how it now works....

I this morning go back to a conversation I had with Ken on I2C (and there could have been more contributors) and I have to now look at each post of Ken's where I see an edit (now likely all) and check each of these for the last edit date and time to check that nothing has changed since we talked. Previously, there typically (99% of the time) would be no edits showing at all and I would know that nothing has changed since we interacted and that my reply to each post remains valid. The edit footer was previously a good alert to a change having happened since a given post had been replied to, now its usefulness to non-admin posters has been hugely watered down such that it has simply become an extra thing that will always need checking (in detail) in a thread where you have contributed.
Last edited by MartinB on Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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danielj
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Re: Post editing

Post by danielj » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:02 am

OK - I've got you now properly - this seems to be a change in behaviour since phpbb3.1 - it's part of the core software. Either it shows edits like this, or not at all :(

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Re: Post editing

Post by BigEd » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:27 am

I imagine this isn't an option, but in some forum software you get free edits for the first 10 minutes or so - after which the behaviour changes.

There is a facility here called 'save draft' - presumably you can edit your draft... But is it annotated as an edit? Let's find out... OK saved and restored... let's go around one more time... OK now let's post. (The drafts folder is all a bit hidden in the User Control Panel so I'm not sure this is any kind of convenience win, but I've started so I'll finish.)

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BigEd
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Re: Post editing

Post by BigEd » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:32 am

I agree that the footer is a bit less useful now as a warning flag - although I'd normally not worry about edited posts, unless it's a heated argument. Cosmetic edits are always fine, of course, but if a few minutes has passed, adding a 'one more thing' might well be missed by people who got a notification and read the post swiftly. I've certainly missed one or two of those.

Is it preferable to use the 'preview' button to check and tweak a post as you're making it, rather than 'edit'???

(Which is to say, I agree that this change isn't ideal, but I'm looking for workarounds.)

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Re: Post editing

Post by lurkio » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:47 am

danielj wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:02 am
OK - I've got you now properly - this seems to be a change in behaviour since phpbb3.1 - it's part of the core software. Either it shows edits like this, or not at all :(
You recently did a major update to the forum software (including a privacy policy extension). Is that what you mean when you refer to "3.1"? Because I seem to remember that this new behaviour didn't begin immediately after the upgrade: i.e. I'm fairly sure I've edited posts that were end-of-thread since then and NOT had an edit-footer appended to them. The new behaviour seems to have emerged only in the last day or two. Is there a very recent change that was made to the forum software that might have switched on the new behaviour?

BigEd wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:32 am
Is it preferable to use the 'preview' button to check and tweak a post as you're making it, rather than 'edit'???
I always preview a post several times anyway. But it's simply impossible to always write the perfect post before you hit Submit. You're only human. You make mistakes. You just have to go back and edit, sometimes straight away, sometimes multiple edits in a short space of time just after the Submit. You don't really want all those "insta-edits" to be exposed in a footer.

:?:
Last edited by lurkio on Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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danielj
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Re: Post editing

Post by danielj » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:30 am

OK, I think I know what did it then, but I don't think there's anything that can be done about it unless we wish to remove the edit thing altogether. I personally would be reluctant to do that as it covers everyone's backsides - users and mods alike.

Everything on here is a tradeoff to some extent - it will never be perfect for everyone, but we need to balance keeping things the same(ish), being able to keep the forum software up to date, and making the lives of those who keep things ticking over a bit easier (part of which is being able to justify actions in the face of people calling foul).

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Elminster
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Re: Post editing

Post by Elminster » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:40 am

I guess the only work around on a long post will several edits but no real info content change would just be the old.
EDIT: Fixed typos
I for one get loads of typo, my brain just read what it thinks it typed. I get pc to read out text on important document and spell check with my ears.

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Re: Post editing

Post by guesser » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:11 am

Doesn't bother me as it's small text that I just mentally filter out when reading a thread.
On the other hand, there's always a 'relevant xkcd'...

Image

:)
Last edited by guesser on Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
A web based teletext editor which can export as Mode 7 screen memory: https://zxnet.co.uk/teletext/editor

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Re: Post editing

Post by lcww1 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:22 am

@guesser: that is delightful :lol:

Edit: edited the edited edits
Last edited by lcww1 on Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:23 am, edited 4 times in total.

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1024MAK
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Re: Post editing

Post by 1024MAK » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:15 am

Elminster wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:40 am
I for one get loads of typo, my brain just read what it thinks it typed. I get pc to read out text on important document and spell check with my ears.
I'm fairly good at picking up my own errors when using a normal full sized keyboard and normal monitor on a PC. Especially with the aid of a spell checker (I use Firefox on a Linux system).

Using an iPad mini or a mobile 'phone however, and I find text that I enter riddled with errors. Party due to me knowing what I want to say, and thinking I have hit the correct touchscreen key, I just keep typing away.

Then I read it back, and auto-suggest / auto-correct has had different ideas on what I was trying to say, most likely because either I misspelled a word, or my use of the touchscreen keyboard was not accurate enough for it. Worse, due to the small screen and the distractions of the changes due to auto-suggest / auto-correct, I then miss other mistakes.

Also on the iPad mini or a mobile 'phone, I'm often time limited (in a rush), so don't leave it for five minutes before proof reading it. Whereas when using the PC, I will leave that window/tab open, and go do something else. Then come back and proof read it.

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Re: Post editing

Post by 1024MAK » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:17 am

On the subject of composing posts, would members here like the admin team to look into adding an extension to the forum that vastly improves the draft functionality?

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Re: Post editing

Post by 1024MAK » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:46 am

Further to my post just above. There exists an auto / quick draft module for this forum software. Another forum that I am a member of uses it.
Here is a screenshot of me loading a saved draft:-
IMG_7266.JPG
Loading a quick draft
Details of the extension are here https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/exte ... to_drafts/

It certainly makes using drafts so much easier than the clunky standard phpBB drafts system (which I hardly ever use).

Would members like this extension feature adding? Please let us know your views.

Mark
Last edited by 1024MAK on Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Image added as an attachment so that everyone can see it.
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Re: Post editing

Post by lurkio » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:30 am

1024MAK wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:46 am
Here is a screenshot of me loading a saved draft:-
Image
Can't see the image.

:?:

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sydney
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Re: Post editing

Post by sydney » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:34 am

I can see it on the post and your quote.

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Re: Post editing

Post by lurkio » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:50 am

sydney wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:34 am
I can see it on the post and your quote.
I get this when I copy and paste the image URL:

image.jpeg

download/file.php?id=38408&mode=view

:?:

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Elminster
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Re: Post editing

Post by Elminster » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:31 pm

Ditto. I can’t see it either. Didn’t we have this issue the other day? Forget what causes it now.

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Re: Post editing

Post by 1024MAK » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:01 pm

Sorry about the image not being visible to most users. I've learnt something new about what can an cannot be done :oops: #-o

I've now attached the image to the post in a different way, so now everyone should be able to see it :mrgreen:

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Re: Post editing

Post by 1024MAK » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:03 pm

Elminster wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:31 pm
Ditto. I can’t see it either. Didn’t we have this issue the other day? Forget what causes it now.
No, this is a different thing, this time it was due to a mistake made by me.

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Re: Post editing

Post by Richard Russell » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:34 pm

1024MAK wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:03 pm
No, this is a different thing, this time it was due to a mistake made by me.
Do you mind explaining what? I still often prefer to embed a link to an externally-hosted image, rather than attaching it (not least to save forum storage, which it has been hinted is running short). AFAIK this still works, although now the forum seems to be forcing HTTPS access I wouldn't be surprised if there could be issues when linking to an insecure site.

On the 'Last edited by' footers, showing a count of edits will discourage me from fixing minor typos. I share the view that a short 'grace period' during which edits can be made invisibly should be allowed, if the forum software is capable of that.

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Re: Post editing

Post by danielj » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:38 pm

It was an image posted in the mod forum originally hence the permissions weren't right.

Linking to an insecure site is OK - your browser will just say that it's mixed content though.

d.
Last edited by danielj on Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Post editing

Post by richmond62 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:40 pm

I like it. Just because there haven't been any follow-up post, doesn't mean that people haven't read it before it was edited.
I think this makes very good sense.

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Re: Post editing

Post by danielj » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:01 pm

OK - I've added the autodrafts module - I'd really recommend using that you do your best to ensure you're happy with your post before posting it (I realise this is a change to some people's workflows!) :). You'll see that it saves a copy of your post every 20 seconds or so. If you don't post it it'll keep it as a draft for a week after which point it'll automatically be deleted. You, of course, can delete any drafts when you like.

As is always the case, but just as a reminder, once in the wild posts get indexed by google and other web-crawlers etc, etc, so don't post anything you don't want to be on the interweb forever! If there's something you've posted and you want deleted, flag it to us and we'll scrub it (we can't guarantee it will be gone from anything that might have spotted it first).
Last edited by danielj on Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: missing brackets etc!

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