Image sizes

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danielj
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Image sizes

Post by danielj » Sat May 26, 2018 8:40 am

Hi all,
As we've updated, I can implement some new functionality. We're running *very* tight on space at the moment, I can implement server side limits on image sizes and get it to resize them automatically -> does 1024x1024 sound reasonable as a maximum size? For most purposes it should be fine. If people want to upload more detailed things, I suggest zipping them and uploading a zip, or putting them on a googledrive share, and sharing that link?

Thoughts welcome :)

d.

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flaxcottage
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Re: Image sizes

Post by flaxcottage » Sat May 26, 2018 8:56 am

Seems OK, Daniel.

What is a bit worrying is the "tight" space. The forum is a great historical repository of knowledge and ideas.

Do we need to crowd-fund buying more space?
- John
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Elminster
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Re: Image sizes

Post by Elminster » Sat May 26, 2018 9:03 am

Yes as John says, what do we need to do to get more space. Money? Sponsored naked bike rides?, I bet you don’t want the box of old hard disk I have somewhere.

Or just time to sort it?

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Re: Image sizes

Post by SteveBagley » Sat May 26, 2018 9:09 am

I’d say 1024x1024 is rather low these days given the trend toward HiDPI screens— it won’t display full screen on many phones, and would require scaling up to fill more than half a hidpi laptop screen, or a quarter of 4K monitor without requiring scaling up. Now scaling's not a problem for a Beeb or Arc screenshot but it would make a difference with photos.

Steve

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danielj
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Re: Image sizes

Post by danielj » Sat May 26, 2018 9:22 am

The question is whether images need to be any bigger for the purposes of the forum? Mostly it's just people showing things. Detailed instructional images can always be uploaded in a zip.

d.

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Elminster
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Re: Image sizes

Post by Elminster » Sat May 26, 2018 9:28 am

Are you still looking to trim image space usage even if you get more disk space for site? Are there other ways to save space, i.e. does phpbb support image compression.

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geraldholdsworth
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Re: Image sizes

Post by geraldholdsworth » Sat May 26, 2018 9:30 am

danielj wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 9:22 am
The question is whether images need to be any bigger for the purposes of the forum
No, 1024x1024 is perfectly adequate for most of the images on this forum.
Gerald Holdsworth
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www.reptonresourcepage.co.uk

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danielj
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Re: Image sizes

Post by danielj » Sat May 26, 2018 9:32 am

We might limit by file size still, undecided. Just looking at some simple things to implement that will cover the majority of what's uploaded (i.e. pictures of stuff).

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1024MAK
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Re: Image sizes

Post by 1024MAK » Sat May 26, 2018 9:56 am

My thoughts are:

I'm concerned at the
danielj wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 8:40 am
we're running *very* tight on space at the moment
comment from you. You said this before the update/upgrade as well. I presume you mean server HDD space, as opposed to any other possible meaning.

Does StarDot have enough space for a reasonable number of back-ups?
Is it possible to obtain more HDD / server capacity?
If yes, would the operators of StarDot consider donations towards the cost?

Mobile devices continue to evolve, and hence as they get better and better cameras, so photo files sizes increase. This trend is not likely to stop.

While most images don't need to be greater than 1024 x 1024, it's not easy for everyone to adjust image size, or indeed, the more relevant factor of image file size, on their so called Smart 'phone, or other mobile device. And as more and more members are using such devices to both browse the forum and to upload posts with 'photos, so it also becomes an issue of user experience.

Normally I do use a 'photo editor app. to crop images, then another app. to resize the images/'photos. But this is on an iPad mini.

The problem with members hosting images elsewhere, is that older threads may well up with lost images, as members discontinue with that third party image hosting site, or said site closes, or changes it's policy (this is exactly what has happened over at World of Spectrum where a lot of members were using photobucket). It's one of the things I like about StarDot, the reasonable uploads policy.

Anyway, I would like to hear what other members think.

Mark
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danielj
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Re: Image sizes

Post by danielj » Sat May 26, 2018 10:15 am

So, the server adjusts the size automatically for uploaded images using ImageMagick. No need for user-side intervention at all, just continue as normal.

I'm just investigating the server situation with regard to increasing the amount of space available. We have about 17gb of attachments, plus the database is about 1gb in size.
d.

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Elminster
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Re: Image sizes

Post by Elminster » Sat May 26, 2018 10:21 am

Is it practiacl to offload the images under a stardot controleld and backed up alternative location (rather than an individual users).

I.e. how much control do you have at the backend, could you sweep up old images, dump them somewhere else and put a link to them in the relevant post. Whereas recent or hot images are stored as normal?

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danielj
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Re: Image sizes

Post by danielj » Sat May 26, 2018 10:32 am

That would be a ridiculous kerfuffle and require more manipulation than I think anyone would be willing to do. We like easy and out of the box here, simply as this isn't our day job :D

d.

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lcww1
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Re: Image sizes

Post by lcww1 » Sat May 26, 2018 10:48 am

Automatic image resizing is most welcome, and 1024x1024 sounds like a fair compromise to me.

Re storage, I’d be more than happy to make a donation to help with that, and I’m sure that many others would be too! I suppose that there are ongoing storage costs for the forum though, rather than just one off costs for additional capacity?

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Re: Image sizes

Post by tricky » Sat May 26, 2018 11:15 am

Iirc, there have been some uploads of sth archive and drive images, followed by updated copies soon after. Assuming that my memory is working, some of that could be tidied up by the poster.
Perhapse you could post a list of the largest files?
On the abug thread, I have posted about some good leaded solder donated by fordp to support stardot, so if any one wants to donate and have a receipt in the form of half a kilo of solder, I'll be taking it to relevant events until it's all gone.

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danielj
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Re: Image sizes

Post by danielj » Sat May 26, 2018 11:24 am

The killer is the cumulative effect of lots of "little" things, there's no one big thing that'd make much difference.

We'll let people know about the space situation if any financial assistance is needed, but for the time being any new images which are in the large realm will be shrinkified to a max edge size of 1500 and we'll see how that goes :)

d.

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Elminster
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Re: Image sizes

Post by Elminster » Sat May 26, 2018 11:34 am

danielj wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 10:32 am
That would be a ridiculous kerfuffle and require more manipulation than I think anyone would be willing to do. We like easy and out of the box here, simply as this isn't our day job :D

d.
It isnt that hard. It is a common thing to pull out large objects and store them in slower cheaper storage. Often done automatically at hardware level on big systems. But I have no idea what you are sititng on or what access you have.

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danielj
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Re: Image sizes

Post by danielj » Sat May 26, 2018 11:47 am

Hard is relative - it depends on whether you know how to do it or not :D - if you know how to do something it's easy!

(for phpbb you'd have to trawl all the posts in the database, identify the file ojects, move them and generate links. That would require coding, whilst not impossible it's more effort than I'm willing to put in)

But honestly, I'm fairly sure we can keep things trundling along on here without having to start managing multiple systems.

d.

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Re: Image sizes

Post by jgharston » Sat May 26, 2018 1:13 pm

I process my images to 640x480 and that seems clear and distinct enough to see what's being show, eg:
Image

What would be nice is to get the width=xx% attribute working.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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Elminster
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Re: Image sizes

Post by Elminster » Sat May 26, 2018 4:48 pm

danielj wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 11:47 am
Hard is relative - it depends on whether you know how to do it or not :D - if you know how to do something it's easy!
No trouble for a person of your skill set! But yes if you don’t have to do it that would be easier.

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danielj
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Re: Image sizes

Post by danielj » Sat May 26, 2018 5:51 pm

Hahah :D

Just enough knowledge to be dangerous. (it'd take me quite a while to work out how to do something like that). No matter, I've cleared up about 9gb having found a spurious copy of the forum from 3 years ago lurking in a directory.

d.

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Elminster
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Re: Image sizes

Post by Elminster » Sat May 26, 2018 5:52 pm

danielj wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 5:51 pm
I've cleared up about 9gb having found a spurious copy of the forum from 3 years ago lurking in a directory.

d.
Hopefully that isnt the main backup

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danielj
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Re: Image sizes

Post by danielj » Sat May 26, 2018 6:04 pm

Be fine ;)
(no, it's not)

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1024MAK
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Re: Image sizes

Post by 1024MAK » Sat May 26, 2018 6:32 pm

Careful now. It has been known for someone to delete the active site directory contents before realising far too late...
In my job, it was highly amusing watching someone else transfer control from a working active system to a hot standby system, only to find out (too late) that the hot standby system was in fact, in a failed state :lol:

Mark
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Re: Image sizes

Post by DutchAcorn » Sat May 26, 2018 6:35 pm

The fact that images are not currently resized is, to me, a great feature of Stardot. If resizing is activated and ppl are “kindly requested” to host larger photo’s off-forum (zipping jpgs does not normally result in much compression) the net effect will be that pictures that have archiving value will be hosted off-site (and very often disappear after a few years).

I have seen this with other forums and am pleased Stardot does not have these issues with images (yet).

Then again, there is little need for zooming into a picture of a cat sleeping on a keyboard. But quite often detailed pictures of a member looking for help lead to suggestions based on scanning the full picture.

It would be ideal if images would be resized by default but that this could be overridden when uploading. I don’t use tools for resizing but usually email pictures to myself and let the email do the resizing. Bit of a workaround, would be nice if the forum interface could handle that.

Also willing to donate if it boils down to cost...
Paul

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danielj
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Re: Image sizes

Post by danielj » Sat May 26, 2018 8:26 pm

1024MAK wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 6:32 pm
Careful now. It has been known for someone to delete the active site directory contents before realising far too late...
In my job, it was highly amusing watching someone else transfer control from a working active system to a hot standby system, only to find out (too late) that the hot standby system was in fact, in a failed state :lol:

Mark
I renamed it first just to double check :D

d.

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danielj
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Re: Image sizes

Post by danielj » Sat May 26, 2018 8:28 pm

Whilst I'm on the subject of images - we allow linking to images in signatures - this breaks the ssl thing a bit, as external images might not be over secure links. I can turn this off, but it'd mean no images in sigs... Thoughts on that?

d.

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Re: Image sizes

Post by ctr » Sat May 26, 2018 10:02 pm

danielj wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 8:28 pm
Whilst I'm on the subject of images - we allow linking to images in signatures - this breaks the ssl thing a bit, as external images might not be over secure links. I can turn this off, but it'd mean no images in sigs... Thoughts on that?
Inline images have the same issue. This page shows an exclamation mark on the https padlock (in Firefox anyway) because of jgh's picture above. You can use

Code: Select all

Content-Security-Policy: upgrade-insecure-requests
in the response headers to force all image URLs, etc. to use https, but this will break a lot of existing inline images. Although if the big image hosts support https now it might not be too bad. Of course, quantifying how well it would work would be a load of work.

Another option is to proxy all images through the stardot server but that is another big pile of work. And extra bandwidth costs.

The cures seem worse than the disease. And if anyone is concerned about this they can tell their browser to suppress mixed content.
Last edited by ctr on Sun May 27, 2018 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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1024MAK
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Re: Image sizes

Post by 1024MAK » Sat May 26, 2018 11:02 pm

danielj wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 8:28 pm
Whilst I'm on the subject of images - we allow linking to images in signatures - this breaks the ssl thing a bit, as external images might not be over secure links. I can turn this off, but it'd mean no images in sigs... Thoughts on that?

d.
You will get this with any linked to images that are not served via a https site.
It's a common problem with most forums now.

I would not worry about it.

Mark
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Re: Image sizes

Post by BigEd » Sun May 27, 2018 8:32 am

There's a missing/broken image in this post by tricky - is that related?
viewtopic.php?p=203997#p203997

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danielj
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Re: Image sizes

Post by danielj » Sun May 27, 2018 8:40 am

I can see it? Try refreshing the page (shift-reload).

d.

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