Apple II Europlus

Talk about non-Acorn classic computers/hardware/software here (including retro consoles)
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martinw
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Apple II Europlus

Post by martinw » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:18 pm

A very kind work colleague of mine, who used to work in a computer recycling company has given me a couple of Apple II Europlus and an Apple green screen monitor :D

The monitor powered up first time and my Atom looks excellent on it =D>
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https://youtu.be/GgaJrWJjhQw

The two computers, one of them smoked it’s PSU capacitor(s) on power up, the other didn’t power up.
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Any advice on re-capping the PSUs would be gratefully received.

Most of the ICs have 1981 date codes on them, which is very cool !!! 8)

I’m seriously running out of space though ... :lol:
IMG_6051.JPG
Martin
Last edited by martinw on Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:18 am, edited 3 times in total.

zeem
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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by zeem » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:46 pm

Excellent haul - I'm jealous!

Regarding the machine that won't power up. I'm not sure if the power supplies in the earlier models are similar to or the same as those used in the IIe, but the IIe has a common no-power fault that's very easy to fix. I can't remember the details, but the information's online. I seem to recall it's an electrolytic capacitor and a single resistor that need replacing. I repaired my IIe easily, and my electronics knowledge is almost non-existent.

The smoking capacitors issue is exactly the same as that for the Beeb and many other devices - they're the class X2 filter capacitors made by RIFA.

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Lardo Boffin
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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by Lardo Boffin » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:51 am

Wow. My IIE is very jealous of that monitor!

Good haul - the only II europlus on eBay at the mo is up for £375. This is not an unusual price for them.
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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by JudgeBeeb » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:52 am

zeem wrote:The smoking capacitors issue is exactly the same as that for the Beeb and many other devices - they're the class X2 filter capacitors made by RIFA.
Except that in most Apple II computers the PSU is sealed with rivets that have to be drilled out :(
There is so much wonder in the universe; why should you want to imagine that there is more?

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by martinw » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:15 am

Thank you for the feedback guys, I'm pretty handy with my pedestal drill and my soldering iron, so fingers crossed on that front, I'll let you know how I get on.

Good to know how much they're potentially worth too, although they're staying with me for the foreseeable future.

I just need to buy/make a smallish desk to go in my relatively overcrowded computer den to put them on :)

Martin

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by Prime » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:55 pm

lazarusr wrote:
zeem wrote:The smoking capacitors issue is exactly the same as that for the Beeb and many other devices - they're the class X2 filter capacitors made by RIFA.
Except that in most Apple II computers the PSU is sealed with rivets that have to be drilled out :(
I think the IIe machines that I have both have screws, but may well be true for the earlier machines e.g. the Europlus.

Cheers.

Phill.

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Lardo Boffin
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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by Lardo Boffin » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:15 pm

A candidate for lol price but relevant here:-

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Apple- ... 3440717934

Maybe it is really a signed Apple I? :D
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by martinw » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:06 pm

Lardo Boffin wrote:A candidate for lol price but relevant here:-

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Apple- ... 3440717934

Maybe it is really a signed Apple I? :D
Ouch! Someone’s put the decimal point in the wrong place :lol:

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by Commie_User » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:07 pm

It's probably worth drilling into to get those prime examples back on the road. The Apple II line would have been better than the Mac, had Steve Jobs not nobbled the processors of the later revisions and such. It's interesting to speculate how well the updated Macs would have rivalled the 16-bits, had development been allowed there, too.

Will you build up a proud software collection?

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by martinw » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:02 pm

Commie_User wrote:It's probably worth drilling into to get those prime examples back on the road. The Apple II line would have been better than the Mac, had Steve Jobs not nobbled the processors of the later revisions and such. It's interesting to speculate how well the updated Macs would have rivalled the 16-bits, had development been allowed there, too.

Will you build up a proud software collection?
Aye, I’ll try my best to do a neat job.

Not sure about the software, or really what’s available to tell you the truth. The first Apple I ever saw was in 1995, one of those with everything built into one box, monitor etc, looked like a large upturned brick.

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by Lardo Boffin » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:52 pm

Apple II software is fairy scarce this side of the pond and very expensive for the most part. There is an absolute tonne of it to download though.

That of course leads to 'how do I get it on my Apple...'

You either need one of these (or similar) - http://www.a2heaven.com/webshop/index.p ... uct_id=124

Or a super serial card and appropriate cable to connect to a PC. You then use ADP Pro (Advance Disc Transfer) to copy downloaded files from the web onto floppy disc and run it in the old skool way. There are a couple of these up for auction on eBay in Paris at the mo. The seller ships to the EU.

I had to get one of these (http://www.a2heaven.com/webshop/index.p ... uct_id=142) in order to get a good picture out of my IIe. It then connects to the VGA port of my HD telly and looks rather good. It comes with a cool push button so you can change graphics type on the fly. This is important because the colour on Apple IIs will quickly give you a headache due to the way it works. I tend to run mine in green screen mode as it is easy on the eye and like the terminals in Fallout 3!

I really want one of these but not really sure why... http://www.a2heaven.com/webshop/index.p ... uct_id=147
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, Acorn 6502 coproc
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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by Commie_User » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:34 pm

martinw wrote:
Aye, I’ll try my best to do a neat job.

Not sure about the software, or really what’s available to tell you the truth. The first Apple I ever saw was in 1995, one of those with everything built into one box, monitor etc, looked like a large upturned brick.
I remember once, maybe 1992, finding a neat Apple II like that at a jumble sale for a couple of quid. No VDU but the disk drives, disk and machine were there. But I made the cardinal error of thinking it was busted because the composite video out (?) didn't put a picture through the antenna socket on the kitchen telly, so I chucked it. (There was the faintest, haziest signal though, which threw me off thinking it through.) My best mate tried to tell me to hold it and get things sorted but I didn't listen. I was only about 14.

You can't do worse than me.

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by FourthStone » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:51 am

Commie_User wrote:I remember once, maybe 1992, finding a neat Apple II like that at a jumble sale for a couple of quid. No VDU but the disk drives, disk and machine were there. But I made the cardinal error of thinking it was busted because the composite video out (?) didn't put a picture through the antenna socket on the kitchen telly, so I chucked it. (There was the faintest, haziest signal though, which threw me off thinking it through.) My best mate tried to tell me to hold it and get things sorted but I didn't listen. I was only about 14.

You can't do worse than me.
I used an Apple IIe clone every time I went to holiday with my Aunt, I probably used it more than my cousins did. When I was older and had my own car I went to visit them and found the old apple II lying in a bin in the garage along with all the discs, manuals, monitor... everything ready to be thrown out! I asked if I could take it and was told I was welcome to it, I still have it to this day.

So glad I went for a visit otherwise it might of been buried in a hole somewhere [-X

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by martinw » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:48 pm

Excellent info. thank you =D>

It looks like there are a few "Apple people" on here, which I was hoping for 8)

Martin

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by Lardo Boffin » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:26 pm

Commie_User wrote:
martinw wrote:
Aye, I’ll try my best to do a neat job.

Not sure about the software, or really what’s available to tell you the truth. The first Apple I ever saw was in 1995, one of those with everything built into one box, monitor etc, looked like a large upturned brick.
I remember once, maybe 1992, finding a neat Apple II like that at a jumble sale for a couple of quid. No VDU but the disk drives, disk and machine were there. But I made the cardinal error of thinking it was busted because the composite video out (?) didn't put a picture through the antenna socket on the kitchen telly, so I chucked it. (There was the faintest, haziest signal though, which threw me off thinking it through.) My best mate tried to tell me to hold it and get things sorted but I didn't listen. I was only about 14.

You can't do worse than me.
Ouch.
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, Acorn 6502 coproc
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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by martinw » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:53 am

That was really easy, 3mm drill bit just took the head off the rivet and popped the body of it out with a small screw driver. The other screws came out pretty easy too.
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I think I’ve spotted the offending capacitor too.
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I have one I think should be OK from when I was repairing my Beeb PSUs.
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Fingers crossed that’s all that needs replacing ...

Martin

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by martinw » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:58 am

Swapped out the capacitor ...
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Plugged everything in and ... nothing :?

Plugged the repaired supply into the other one and ...
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Success!!!! Beep, Apple ][ :D =D>

So I have one working PSU and one working mother board (on different computers ...)

We all know it’s easier to fix something with something along side it to measure, so very happy and hopefully well on the way to having two working Apple ][s, fingers crossed.

Martin

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by martinw » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:05 pm

Wound the brightness down a smidge :)
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Born 1st July 1981 8)
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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by leenew » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:18 pm

Nice :mrgreen:
I dreamed of owning one of these (before the beeb was born :D )
Lee.

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by martinw » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:11 pm

leenew wrote:Nice :mrgreen:
I dreamed of owning one of these (before the beeb was born :D )
Lee.
Cheers Lee, funnily enough as I’ve been using it I can see things in it that have made their way into the Atom and the Beeb. Which came first, I’m guessing the Apple ...

If this is the case, my thoughts behind Acorn’s innovation in the early days have been somewhat muddied :(

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by Commie_User » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:59 am

The Apple II was 1977. And I'm not so sure that Acorn were any less innovative just for some common parts. For example, there was a holy trinity of processors in micros at the time - Z80, MOS 6502 and Motorola 68000 - but just look at the huge spread of machines and capabilities those powered. The Apple, BBC and Commodore 64 used the same range of processor yet rocked very different parties.


Fantastic repair, BTW. I love how it's just the smaller things which usually go wrong on machines that have been taken care of.

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by leenew » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:20 am

If you need spares, there are 2 apples and some disc drives for sale in the vintage PC enthusiasts group on Facebook. . Can't link unfortunately.
Lee.

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by martinw » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:36 pm

leenew wrote:If you need spares, there are 2 apples and some disc drives for sale in the vintage PC enthusiasts group on Facebook. . Can't link unfortunately.
Lee.
Cheers Lee I’ll check that out.

Martin

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by martinw » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:46 pm

Woke up this morning, turned on the Apple II and ... nada, no beep, no nothing.

Eventually worked out one of the ICs had gone bad ... overnight!

Luckily the 6502 wasn’t getting a clock, easy to diagnose, not so easy to find the offending component though as it’s a bit convoluted.

Tracked it down (with the help of my partially working other motherboard) to the 74S195, so if anybody’s got a couple I might be in the market for, as I had to use the one out of the aforementioned partially working motherboard!

What a morning :roll:
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Martin

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by martinw » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:47 pm

Commie_User wrote:The Apple II was 1977. And I'm not so sure that Acorn were any less innovative just for some common parts. For example, there was a holy trinity of processors in micros at the time - Z80, MOS 6502 and Motorola 68000 - but just look at the huge spread of machines and capabilities those powered. The Apple, BBC and Commodore 64 used the same range of processor yet rocked very different parties.


Fantastic repair, BTW. I love how it's just the smaller things which usually go wrong on machines that have been taken care of.
Thank you, there’s been a bit more extra repair this morning though ... :)

I see what you mean, I’m glad the 6502 was chosen by both companies. It kind of occurred to me when I realised the Atom and the Apple II were from similar points in time when I noticed this common trait.

https://youtu.be/5_8RKopyj10

Ctrl-G, beep.

I wonder why Acorn “copied” this ...

The build quality of the Apple II is pretty impressive too, proper keyboard, the lid on the top that just pulls off (making it really easy for fault finding and modification) as well as the connectors at the back that look like a PC.

It interests me who had “original” ideas in all of these products and it looks like Steve Wozniak (or the people around him at the time) had a lot of them!!!

I imagine it was quite expensive at the time compared to an Atom though ...

Martin

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by sweh » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:13 pm

martinw wrote:Ctrl-G, beep.

I wonder why Acorn “copied” this ...
Control-G is character 7; ASCII code 7 is the BEL ("beep") character. You get the same beep from "VDU 7". So this is a nod to the ASCII standard.
Rgds
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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by Lardo Boffin » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:17 pm

The removal lid is genius and very useful. Especially when mine starts to overheat, as it does. Prince of Persia is a particular killer of the system. That and warm summer evenings!
Remove the lid and point a large fan...
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Viglen twin 40/80 5.25" discs, Acorn 6502 coproc
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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by martinw » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:40 pm

Interesting ... thank you for the background on Ctrl-G and the cooling idea =D>

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by Commie_User » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:57 pm

martinw wrote:
Ctrl-G, beep.

I wonder why Acorn “copied” this ...

My guess is that it was Acorn's classy embellishment but it surely does something, like the SysRq key once did. (That toggled a register in the 286 CPU.)

I don't know who came up with whatever first for the micros. We're going to need historians for all of this now. Just one year after the Altair, the Compucolor was unleashed onto the market with all manner of whatnot. I get the feeling that the Apple 2 was only competing with things like that. And I think it did one or two things better than the BBC. The BBC has no colour in 80 column mode. And while the Commodore can do coloured 80-column, that's only in software.

http://oldcomputers.net/compucolor-8001.html

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Re: Apple II Europlus

Post by martinw » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:04 pm

Commie_User wrote: Just one year after the Altair, the Compucolor was unleashed onto the market with all manner of whatnot. I get the feeling that the Apple 2 was only competing with things like that.

http://oldcomputers.net/compucolor-8001.html
Wow I’d never even heard of the compucolor 8)

Thanks for that :)

Martin

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