ICE T65/Z80/6809

emulators, hardware and classic software for atom + system machines
RobC
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by RobC »

JannievanZyl wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 10:58 am
MY timing in getting an epizza board was pretty bad. Had hoglet's ICE boards made and the epizza and programmer ordered. Just for the vendor to (likely understandably) disappear.
I'm in the same boat - I have Dave's adapter board but, having ordered an EEPIZZA, it never arrived. (At least I got a refund.)
bprosman
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by bprosman »

This might be an alternative though its lacking the serial (FTD) interface.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC5V-XILINX-Sp ... 2912966752

Same for this :
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Xilinx-Spartan ... 4652356207

Or this one :
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mojo-V3-FPGA-D ... 2969705764
obiwanjacobi
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by obiwanjacobi »

That last one should be usable, it has USB. Perhaps redefine the pin mappings...

BTW: what is the issue with the EEPROM? I found it (M25P80-VMW6) on ebay: 10 for 7 euros.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-ST-M25P8 ... 2535498277
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hoglet
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by hoglet »

obiwanjacobi wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:02 am
That last one should be usable, it has USB. Perhaps redefine the pin mappings...
This also seems to have been discontinued by the original manufacturer.

The Eagle schematics and board design are here:
https://alchitry.com/products/mojo-v3

I see a few problems:
- The connectors use different pins for power, so it's more than just changing the .ucf file.
- The connector spacing is 2.1 inches, on the EEPIZZA board it's 1.7 inches.
- The EEPROM is a SST25VF040B which is 4Mbit, so only has space for one design (i.e. not multi-boot).
- It doesn't have the additional 6x2 connector

The only FPGA board I'm aware of with a similar main connecror footprint and power supply connections is the DE0-NANO.

Unfortunately, this costs ~£85 in the UK.

Dave
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by obiwanjacobi »

Hmm, I guess you always run the risk of ebay/ali products not being available at any time.
If you want to provide consistency you have to make one yourself (can be a copied design) with still available parts for a reasonable price. Bonus is that you can integrate level shifting and make the EEPROM big enough to hold all the code you need.

@Dave: can you explain what the problem is with switching the brand of FPGA? Are you using IP that is bound to Xilinx tooling?

Edit: I see Farnell still carries the XC6SLX9TGQ144 for around 17 euros (without VAT)...
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hoglet
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by hoglet »

obiwanjacobi wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 8:33 am
@Dave: can you explain what the problem is with switching the brand of FPGA? Are you using IP that is bound to Xilinx tooling?
There's no real technical issue here, it's just rather mundane to do this for about 20 different projects. It's much more than just recompiling, because Altera DCMs are different, and the dual port RAMs are less flexible. I'd just rather spend my time on other things.

I'm still hoping that at some point eepizza will open his ebay shop again as China starts to recover. If this doesn't happen in the next few months, then I think cloning the existing board is the best way to go. Roland's had good experiences using PCBWAY for Atom2K18, and they do double-sided assembly and part sourcing.

In any event, all the projects are open source, so anyone is free to fork them and add support for different boards/FPGA. If you feel motivated to design a new all-in-one board, then you have my blessing.

Dave
bprosman
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by bprosman »

I made some HiRes pictures.

2 Questions I have :

@Dave do you have an idea (or educated guess) how many layers the EEPizza board has ?
My guess is at least 4,with (maybe?) a power and ground plane.

Looking at my board pictures it looks that the voltage regulators are already larger than SOT-223
P5170029.JPG
P5170028.JPG
P5170027.JPG
P5170026.JPG
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hoglet
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by hoglet »

bprosman wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:18 pm
@Dave do you have an idea (or educated guess) how many layers the EEPizza board has ?
My guess is at least 4,with (maybe?) a power and ground plane.
I think it's 4-layers.
bprosman wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:18 pm
Looking at my board pictures it looks that the voltage regulators are already larger than SOT-223
Here's the datasheet for the AMS1117:
http://www.advanced-monolithic.com/pdf/ds1117.pdf

The SOT-223 package is 6.3mm x 3.3mm.

Looking at your pixtures, that seems to match what you have.

Do you have any calipers? You could try to measure them.

Dave
Prime
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by Prime »

I think I've found a bug in the 6809 core on the Godil.

If you set a write to memory watch, it always lists the written data as $FF

With the following watches set :

Code: Select all

>> blist
0: FF90 mask FFFF: Mem Wr Watch (trigger: Always)
1: FF92 mask FFFF: Mem Wr Watch (trigger: Always)
2: FF93 mask FFFF: Mem Wr Watch (trigger: Always)
I get the follwowing results :

Code: Select all

CPU free running...
00.306531 : Mem Wr Watch hit at CE61 writing FF90:FF  .
00.306803 : Mem Wr Watch hit at CE75 writing FF90:FF  .
00.307152 : Mem Wr Watch hit at CE7B writing FF92:FF  .
00.307157 : Mem Wr Watch hit at CE7E writing FF93:FF  .
The first write to $FF90 was $80 from the A register
The second write to $FF90 was $C0 from the A register
The writes to $FF92 and $FF93 where $00 (both clr instructions).

This is on a CoCo 3, but I've used it on there before without problems. I can be certain about what
is being written as this is my code I am debugging :)

So there seems to be either a small bug or I'm doing something wrong (which is entirely possible!).

Cheers.

Phill.
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hoglet
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by hoglet »

Prime wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:34 pm
So there seems to be either a small bug or I'm doing something wrong (which is entirely possible!).
There is indeed a bug, which only affects the GODIL, which is why I've not noticed it before.

I've committed what I think is a fix to the dev branch:
https://github.com/hoglet67/AtomBusMon/commits/dev

I've also pushed a change that adds an optional address to the next command.

Give this a try and see if it helps; hopefully I haven't introduced any new bugs!

Dave
zwarder
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by zwarder »

Great work going on here, I have old systems vectrex spectrum etc. Was looking for a fluke 6809 pod but this setup would be ideal for fault finding.
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Tom swift
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by Tom swift »

Hi, folks. So when I had originally stumbled on this project, I was having problems with a machine that had a 6809. Fortunately, I figured out what the issue was without the need of the ICE. Now I have a new issue with a Z80 board and would like to use the ICE to troubleshoot it.

I bought 4 of those GODIL50_XC3S500E DIL FPGA modules and those sweet adapters bprosman made and am now reading on the hoglet67 wiki page that they're obsolete?! I'd love to put these together. It's an incredible tool. Can I no longer use them?

Thanks,
Tom
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BigEd
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by BigEd »

The GODIL boards are obsolete only in the sense that they are not being made any more - they are still a supported build for the ICE.
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Tom swift
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by Tom swift »

BigEd wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:51 pm
The GODIL boards are obsolete only in the sense that they are not being made any more - they are still a supported build for the ICE.
Oh, jeez... I just bought 2 off of their website. I contacted them a day or so ago and said their website wasn't working. I guess someone got the message because I could purchase those GODILs now.

https://shop.trenz-electronic.de/de/TE0 ... 50-pin-IDC

That's great to hear. I read up on the eePizza boards and it sounds great.
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Tom swift
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by Tom swift »

I'm writing instructions on how to program the GODIL. Here's what I got...

Pending...
Last edited by Tom swift on Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:53 am, edited 7 times in total.
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BigEd
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by BigEd »

(Actually, I say not being made - it might be that the GODIL 50 still is, and as you note there is now an adapter story for that model. But the original GODIL 40 seems now not to be a current product. Unfortunately, at present the eepizza board isn't available either.)
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BigEd
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by BigEd »

Tom swift wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:48 pm
I'm writing instructions on how to program the GODIL. Here's what I got...

... relevant .mcs files here ...
Hmm, I wonder if Dave or anyone could cook up a recipe like the one here
https://github.com/hoglet67/Beeb1MHzBus ... CD-on-a-Pi
which allows a Raspberry Pi to load a *.bit file into an FPGA, but with mcs files? This way, no need for giant Xilinx tool download, or for any licensing or signing up.
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hoglet
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by hoglet »

Tom swift wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:48 pm
  • ? ? ?
  • Simple terminal emulator needed connected to the serial port at 57600 baud.
  • Enjoy.
Have you read this page on the Wiki?
https://github.com/hoglet67/AtomBusMon/ ... -in-iMPACT

It covers both the GODIL and the EEPIZZA boards, including where to download the latest release from.

Dave
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Tom swift
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by Tom swift »

hoglet wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:57 pm
Tom swift wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:48 pm
  • ? ? ?
  • Simple terminal emulator needed connected to the serial port at 57600 baud.
  • Enjoy.
Have you read this page on the Wiki?
https://github.com/hoglet67/AtomBusMon/ ... -in-iMPACT

It covers both the GODIL and the EEPIZZA boards, including where to download the latest release from.

Dave
LOL! OMG. I clicked on that link on another page of yours and it went to something else. Thanks!
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hoglet
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by hoglet »

BigEd wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:57 pm
Hmm, I wonder if Dave or anyone could cook up a recipe like the one here
https://github.com/hoglet67/Beeb1MHzBus ... CD-on-a-Pi
which allows a Raspberry Pi to load a *.bit file into an FPGA, but with mcs files? This way, no need for giant Xilinx tool download, or for any licensing or signing up.
I can have a look at this over the next day or two.

OpenOCD includes support for Spartan-6, via this config file:
https://github.com/arduino/OpenOCD/blob ... x-xc6s.cfg

(For programming into FLASH I think both .bin and .mcs file formats should work)

For the GODIL, something like this needs to be created that works with Spartan 3E.

This may actually be quite hard, as it's not included already in OpenOCD.

Dave
Last edited by hoglet on Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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hoglet
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by hoglet »

Tom swift wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:00 pm
LOL! OMG. I clicked on that link on another page of yours and it went to something else. Thanks!
If you can remeber which page has the dodgy link, I'll fix it,
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Tom swift
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by Tom swift »

hoglet wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:10 pm
Tom swift wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:00 pm
LOL! OMG. I clicked on that link on another page of yours and it went to something else. Thanks!
If you can remeber which page has the dodgy link, I'll fix it,
Here it is: https://github.com/hoglet67/AtomBusMon/ ... e-emulator

It says 'Programming the GODIL' and goes here: https://github.com/hoglet67/AtomBusMon/wiki
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Tom swift
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by Tom swift »

Dave, thank you so much for getting back. I'm reading over the programming steps and a bit confused over these steps for the GODIL.
  • Configure the GODIL jumpers appropriately to power the design that's currently programmed
  • Apply power to via these pins
I understand that the pins need to be reset but I'm wondering which pins need to be powered / grounded for each device. Is it the one's listed at the GODIL Hardware (now obsolete) ICE-T65, ICE-T80 & ICE-6809 pages? They also show serial pins (and trigger?). When are those used? When programming or under test?

Sorry, I'm just trying not to let the magic smoke out of these GODILs.

Thanks a ton.
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hoglet
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by hoglet »

Tom swift wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:36 pm
I understand that the pins need to be reset but I'm wondering which pins need to be powered / grounded for each device. Is it the one's listed at the GODIL Hardware (now obsolete) ICE-T65, ICE-T80 & ICE-6809 pages? They also show serial pins (and trigger?). When are those used? When programming or under test?
The GODIL needs to be "jumpered" so that it is powered by the pins used by the original CPU.

So for the 6809 (40 pin DIP), pin 1 is GND and pin 7 is VCC.

This Wiki page shows you which jumpers you need on the GODIL to do this:
https://github.com/hoglet67/AtomBusMon/wiki/ICE-6809

Your setup is a bit more complicated, because your GODIL has 2x 50-pin femake IDC headers in place of the blocks of jumpers. The blocks of jumpers do exist stll though, on Bram's adapter board, and should be in the same relative positions. But do confirm this for yourself with a multimeter (I don't have one of Bram's adapter board myseld).

(All GODILs use the same PCB, it's just different connectors are fitted).

The serial pins are how you interact with the ICE.

The trigger pins can be ignored for now.
Tom swift wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:36 pm
Sorry, I'm just trying not to let the magic smoke out of these GODILs.
Make sure you have looked at the GODIL manual:
http://www.trenz-electronic.de/fileadmi ... L-v090.pdf

This explains far better than I can about powering the GODIL.

Dave


Dave
bprosman
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by bprosman »

This is how I jumpered them for a 6502, Red = Vcc, Black = Gnd and the serial connection, as Dave says, you take the pins that originally also are powered at the original CPU.
F508914B-E96B-4E02-92CF-865442815BE2.jpeg
801D2258-2946-42E9-9BE4-B3D4AFB82461.jpeg
FFF7C590-B55D-4D8C-A557-A75282B2F8FA.jpeg
29E223D1-C6F0-4401-9B55-CE3596655088.jpeg
7CC5E097-38B4-4469-9CD8-4F95ECD96738.jpeg
F5902009-4BD5-407A-BD56-A5DF32E8EB97.jpeg
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Tom swift
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by Tom swift »

bprosman wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:17 pm
This is how I jumpered them for a 6502, Red = Vcc, Black = Gnd and the serial connection, as Dave says, you take the pins that originally also are powered at the original CPU.
Thanks for speaking up. I was gonna give it external supply. The instructions say, 'Apply power to via these pins'. Jumpering makes sense looking at the GODIL schematics now.

I don't get why it needs to be on a bread board. Doesn't the programmer supply voltage to the GODIL? Perhaps I got spoiled working with Arduinos.

So just jumper those pins when you are programming the FPGA. Correct?

I'm sorry. I would PM you but I'm too much of a n00b on this forum.
bprosman
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by bprosman »

Hi , no the programmer won’t power the Godil, actually the programmer checks the voltage otherwise it will throw an error message.

Not only jumper them when programming and supplying power but leave them when you put the ICE in the target machine otherwise it wont be powered either.

And to repeat , just for safety :D mine was jumpered for a 6502 but once you get the logic you will see.
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Tom swift
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by Tom swift »

bprosman wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:48 am
Hi , no the programmer won’t power the Godil, actually the programmer checks the voltage otherwise it will throw an error message.

Not only jumper them when programming and supplying power but leave them when you put the ICE in the target machine otherwise it wont be powered either.

And to repeat , just for safety :D mine was jumpered for a 6502 but once you get the logic you will see.
OK. I just had an epiphany. When I finally get this thing programmed, the board under test will be supplying the power to the GODIL. Correct? That's why you need the jumpers... ahhh, genius. It's all adding up.

Communication through serial to the terminal is handled at A1, C1, A2.

When I program it, I'm supplying voltage at C2 and ground at A1 but also have the jumpers connected.

Great. The pieces are slowing moving into place. If only I can get this damn Xilinx software to install.
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by bprosman »

If only I can get this damn Xilinx software to install.
What OS are you using ?, as on Windows 10 its pretty straight forward.
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Tom swift
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Re: ICE T65/Z80/6809

Post by Tom swift »

pretty straight forward
Great. Tell me what you're doing.

I'm using WIndows 10. I try installing it and it keep coming up with error messages.

I downloaded Xilinx_ISE_14.7_Win10_14.7_VM_0213_1.zip and also VirtualBox-6.1.12-139181-Win.exe

vboxmanage error pops up when I don't install VirtualBox.
Untested and Appliance Import errors pop up when I do install VirtualBox.

Oh, the appliance import error might be because I didn't allocate enough hard drive space.
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