AtomSID

discussion of games, software, hardware & emulators relating to the Acorn Atom and Acorn System machines.
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oss003
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AtomSID

Post by oss003 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:10 am

Hi guys,

I have my AtomSID running and playing some BeebSID files :D

Have a look at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKX0m24BEwk

Greetings
Kees

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Arcadian
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Re: AtomSID

Post by Arcadian » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 am

Want.
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk

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Elminster
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Re: AtomSID

Post by Elminster » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:08 pm

Did this ever get offered for sale and/or build instructions get posted etc?

Something I can reference on the hardware list basically.

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oss003
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Re: AtomSID

Post by oss003 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:02 pm

Well I did build the first AtomSID but this one never made it into production.
IIRC Phill has developed a new AtomSID board ......

Greetings
Kees

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Elminster
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Re: AtomSID

Post by Elminster » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:07 pm

Too many SID boards :-) Okay I dont think I had that one either. I saw mention of one by you and Roland.

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oss003
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Re: AtomSID

Post by oss003 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:17 pm

The problem is that the SID chip needs +12V or +9V and the Atom only has +5V.
This was the test board with a stepup PCB.

Greetings
Kees
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Atomsid.png

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Re: AtomSID

Post by Prime » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:33 pm

Yeah the board I designed is a bit smaller (it's double sided which helps) but also uses a step up module to 12V, and then a 9V reg if needed, with a jumper to select 12V/9V to power the SID from, I'll post a picture when I get back from my holiday :)

Cheers.

Phill.

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Elminster
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Re: AtomSID

Post by Elminster » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:16 pm

That would be great. If everyone posts various AtomSIDs here I can just reference this link.

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roland
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Re: AtomSID

Post by roland » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:12 pm

Elminster wrote:Too many SID boards :-) Okay I dont think I had that one either. I saw mention of one by you and Roland.
I don't have a sid board but an emulared sid in my Godil. I donated my real sid to Kees after he send his sid to silicon heaven O:)
256K + 6502 Inside
MAN WOMAN :shock:

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Re: AtomSID

Post by sirmorris » Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:50 am

oss003 wrote:Well I did build the first AtomSID
[-X Maybe the first PCB :wink:

Sorry Kees, you are a bona-fide Atomic Legend but I can't let you get away with that :lol: :lol:
IMG_3756.jpg
IMG_3758.jpg
Anyone remember the famous Lass incident with the SID killer monitor audio input? Lucky there was a spare SID in that c64 that was screwed to the wall. I don't know how many health & safety infractions I incurred putting a plastic bag over the smoke detector in my hotel room so I could solder this bad boy up :twisted:

Here is a vid the board above in action
Last edited by sirmorris on Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: AtomSID

Post by Multiwizard » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:00 am

sirmorris wrote:
oss003 wrote:Well I did build the first AtomSID
[-X Maybe the first PCB :wink:
IMG_3756.jpgIMG_3758.jpg

Anyone remember the famous Lass incident with the SID killer monitor audio input? Lucky there was a spare SID in that c64 that was screwed to the wall. I don't know how many health & safety infractions I incurred putting a plastic bag over the smoke detector in my hotel room so I could solder this bad boy up :lol: :lol:
Yep, I know that story... :lol:


Greetings, Wim... :-)

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Re: AtomSID

Post by oss003 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:22 am

sirmorris wrote:Anyone remember the famous Lass incident with the SID killer monitor audio input? Lucky there was a spare SID in that c64 that was screwed to the wall. I don't know how many health & safety infractions I incurred putting a plastic bag over the smoke detector in my hotel room so I could solder this bad boy up :twisted:
Aahh ..... you're right ...... :oops:

Sorry Charlie, I did forget that you started the SID adventure in Manchester where the legendary SID sound for the first time came out of an Atom and filled the room ...... =D> =D>

Yes, blowing a SID, ripping a C64 of the wall and illegal smoking in your room ....... those were the days ........ :wink:
Is it still working?

Greetings
Kees

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Elminster
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Re: AtomSID

Post by Elminster » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:16 am

Thanks. Keep them coming. If anyone has any links to layouts or build instructions just put them here. Hopefully update the hardware list tonight, got distracted playing with pitube again last night.

Edit: AtomSIDs in hardware list now point here.
Last edited by Elminster on Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: AtomSID

Post by oss003 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:29 pm

There is an old Dutch article from 1990 with schematic about a SP0256 speech syntesizer and a 6581 SID chip board.
I don't know if it was ever build but maybe one of the authors can remember ............. Roland???

http://www.acornatom.nl/atom_nieuws/199 ... 902026.htm
http://www.acornatom.nl/atom_nieuws/199 ... 902027.htm
http://www.acornatom.nl/atom_nieuws/199 ... 902028.htm
http://www.acornatom.nl/atom_nieuws/199 ... 902029.htm

Greetings
Kees
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schema.png

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sirmorris
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Re: AtomSID

Post by sirmorris » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:00 pm

oss003 wrote:Yes, blowing a SID, ripping a C64 of the wall and illegal smoking in your room ....... those were the days ........ :wink:
Is it still working?
8) As if I'd ever do anything naughty :lol:

It is indeed still working. Just about.

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Re: AtomSID

Post by roland » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:26 pm

oss003 wrote:There is an old Dutch article from 1990 with schematic about a SP0256 speech syntesizer and a 6581 SID chip board.
I don't know if it was ever build but maybe one of the authors can remember ............. Roland???
I have never seen this board or it's layout.

I did some research on Linked In to the other author of this article and I found a person whose profile matches with that what I expect from Leo. So I asked that person if he is the Leo I am looking for. If he is, he might have some more information about this board. To be continued ....
256K + 6502 Inside
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Re: AtomSID

Post by -B- » Mon May 20, 2019 12:21 pm

I would like to add SID sound to my Atom.
Has anyone had PCB's made that can sell me one or supply the gerbers?
I will probably use a SID clone on the board that can be either 6581 or 8580, is there a preference for the 9v over the 12v chip from the point of view of building the board?

Neil.

PS: @oss003 I will be asking you about this at the 2019 TechSat
Atom | BBC Model A | BBC Model B | Electron | Olivetti PC128S.

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Re: AtomSID

Post by oss003 » Mon May 20, 2019 1:17 pm

-B- wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 12:21 pm
I would like to add SID sound to my Atom.
Has anyone had PCB's made that can sell me one or supply the gerbers?
I will probably use a SID clone on the board that can be either 6581 or 8580, is there a preference for the 9v over the 12v chip from the point of view of building the board?

Neil.

PS: @oss003 I will be asking you about this at the 2019 TechSat
Hi Neil,

I made a DIY board just with a mask.

download/file.php?id=30444&mode=view

Phill did make another design in Eagle and maybe he has one spare or the gerber files.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater

Greetings
Kees

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Re: AtomSID

Post by -B- » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:19 am

I have been looking at my options for a SID chip and decided not to remove one from a working machine and go for a SwinSID...
- It can emulate either 6581 or 8580, selectable with a jumper.
- It runs off 5v so does not need a voltage step up circuit/board.
- People say it does not sound as good as an original chip.
- It is relatively cheap: 10 GBP for the through hole, large PCB version, and 15GBP for the smaller SMD version.

I also looked at the ARMSID...
- It autodetects which chip it should emulate by looking at the voltage on Pin 28 (12v or 9v) so it will still need a voltage step up circuit/board.
- It costs a lot!

I will let you know what it is like in due course.

Neil.
Atom | BBC Model A | BBC Model B | Electron | Olivetti PC128S.

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Elminster
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Re: AtomSID

Post by Elminster » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:00 am

They work fine in the normal BeebSID as that is what I have.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14803&hilit=swinsid#p207387

Did a rubbish video here https://youtu.be/7f8VqDFEL0E

I have another BeebSID somewhere with a real SID in, but never compared them to tell the difference.

Regards,
Duncan
Last edited by Elminster on Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: AtomSID

Post by anightin » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:20 pm

I'd like to make up an ATOM SID if there are any boards floating about.

@Neil did you manage to source a board?


Andy

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Re: AtomSID

Post by -B- » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:07 pm

anightin wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:20 pm
@Neil did you manage to source a board?
I received one of Kees’ PCBs while at the Dutch Atomic Techsat a few weeks ago.
I’ve almost finished it but I’m on holiday at the moment so everything is on hold and no retro computing of any kind is getting done.

Neil
Atom | BBC Model A | BBC Model B | Electron | Olivetti PC128S.

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Re: AtomSID

Post by bprosman » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:25 am

What would be the smallest FPGA that would just hold a "SID" ? Well maybe with some additional address decoding.

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Elminster
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Re: AtomSID

Post by Elminster » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:00 pm

bprosman wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:25 am
What would be the smallest FPGA that would just hold a "SID" ? Well maybe with some additional address decoding.
The SID replacements the SwinSID use microprocessors rather than fpga, I wonder if you could some how use there work to help translate to fpga land.

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Re: AtomSID

Post by bprosman » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:08 pm

I personally can't.. maybe Dave Hoglet could (give his view).

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Re: AtomSID

Post by hoglet » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:35 pm

bprosman wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:08 pm
I personally can't.. maybe Dave Hoglet could (give his view).
The answer depends very much on the FPGA family.

The SID contains a digital filter which uses multipliers. So if the FPGA arctecture provides hardware multipliers, then it will be a much more efficient mapping. As an example, consider the BlackIce port of AtomFpga (the Ice40 FPGAs don't have hardware multipliers):

Ice40Atom built without the SID:

Code: Select all

After packing:
LCs          2708 / 7680
  DFF        823
  CARRY      160
  CARRY, DFF 29
  DFF PASS   552
  CARRY PASS 50
BRAMs        14 / 32
Ice40Atom built with the SID:

Code: Select all

LCs          6696 / 7680
  DFF        1605
  CARRY      610
  CARRY, DFF 196
  DFF PASS   921
  CARRY PASS 153
BRAMs        22 / 32
So the SID is taking up ~4000 logic cells and 4KB of Block RAM. So actually quite big!

Dave

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Re: AtomSID

Post by bprosman » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:09 pm

Also curious in (if any) quality differences between a SwinSID and a FPGA-SID

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Re: AtomSID

Post by -B- » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:44 pm

I finally got around to finishing the AtomSID board that Kees gave me at the Dutch Atomic Techsat in June.

I have modified it slightly. I am usung a SwinSID so it runs off 5v making the step-up voltage area of the board redundant, so I cut it off, removed some tracks, made some links, moved some components and added a 3.5mm jack socket.

IMG_5126.jpeg
IMG_5127.jpeg
IMG_5129.jpeg

Video of it working via the little speakers in my monitor, here... https://youtu.be/FXilYzUC71U

Neil
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Re: AtomSID

Post by anightin » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:40 pm

Excellent stuff Neil =D>

Building one of these is still on my TODO list.


Thanks for sharing :D

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Re: AtomSID

Post by oss003 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:47 pm

Nice job Neil ....... =D>

This Rob Hubbard SID file is the ultimate SID tune ...... download/file.php?id=8067

Greetings
Kees
Last edited by oss003 on Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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