Domesday Reloaded

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Domesday Reloaded

Post by Samwise » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:55 pm

Taken from a recent topic, Domesday Reloaded, on comp.sys.acorn.misc.
from a recent Women's Institute newsletter article wrote:In 1986 the BBC asked a million people to contribute to a digital snapshot of Britain called the BBC Domesday Project The UK was divided into 3x4km squares to be owned by a school, WI, etc.

However, disaster struck, the format became unaffordable and obsolete. Most people have never seen their contributions and it was assumed the material was lost. But George Auckland and his team, at BBC Learning, have been rescuing all the data. 25 years later, in March 2011, the BBC in partnership with the National Archives in Kew, will release the 25,000 photos of British life and landscapes and the accompanying 150,000 pages of text, onto the Domesday Reloaded website.

This CALL TO ACTION is for the public to identify, geotag and update the 24,000 community photographs. This is something which simply cannot be done without the public's help. The material will pass to National Archives as a permanent record of the UK.

The Proposed Plan: The BBC will launch Domesday Reloaded through TV and Radio during the week of March 19 to 27: the week leading up to census week. The project will run for 8 months until November 25 (25th Anniversary of the original BBC Domesday Project), which will again be marked by broadcast activity primarily on Radio Four. The online site is the core of the project, it is where the material will be republished and where people can upload the new pictures and comment. If you were involved, or wish to be involved, please contact Emma Walker directly on emma.walker@bbc.co.uk
Alex Cessford wrote:Having subsequently emailed the Emma Walker in article I mentioned, to express my interest in further involvement, Emma has replied to let me know that they aregoing to delay the launch due to some technical issues. They are now are looking at April or May.

I have also agreed to her further request to be contacted by Radio 4 or BBC Regions if they are looking for participants - watch this space!

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by BeebMaster » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:52 pm

Well, I suppose it's nice of the BBC to have let the WI know all about it, at the same time as totally ignoring everyone in the BBC micro community, where the only remaining working Domesdays are to be found!
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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by paulv » Thu May 12, 2011 8:48 am

Well, they've launched the Domesday site today...

Paul

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by paulv » Thu May 12, 2011 9:55 am

Future generations will be able to access this unique snapshot of life in Britain online for as long as the internet keeps working.
That is assuming the Internet works in the same way as it does today well into the future and to be honest, although the basics of the Internet are the same today, things are a changin' (as they always do). The Internet in the 90's was a very different place to the Internet of today and tomorrow it will be very different again.

I do hope that they've re-mastered the content and are storing the data in the highest quality non-compressed format they can find otherwise this will all be for nought.

Secondly... They're only publishing the community disc online... what's that about?

Paul

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by Samwise » Thu May 12, 2011 10:12 am

Michael Firth and Andrew Benham supplied some info on a couple of related BBC Radio 4 programmes on the BBC Micro Mailing List:

Archive on 4: Domesday Reloaded (1 hour)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0112913
20:00 Sat. 14th & 15:00 Mon. 16th May 2011, on BBC Radio 4

Making History (30 mins - only one section of the programme covers Domesday)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0112fnr
15:00 17th May 2011, on BBC Radio 4

Sam.

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by paulv » Thu May 12, 2011 10:34 am

I've already found several errors in their data encoding of the text data :(

It appears that the content has been maltransformed using at least two different character encoding formats (I'm guessing at ISO-8859-1 and the final encoding of UTF-8)

Essentially, their encoding process has introduced extra UTF-8 control characters that have then been made visible when the data has been re-encoded into another code page incorrectly.

At first I thought it was simply my browser not detecting the correct encoding for the web page but sadly, setting it manually to ISO-8859-1 makes it worse than it is when the browser is left to choose it's own character encoding format (UTF-8).

With UTF-8, the '£' sign appears as £ and when switched to ISO-8859-1 it appears as £2....

Data integrity is lost already... Oh dear :roll:

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by BeebMaster » Thu May 12, 2011 1:36 pm

paulv wrote:Well, they've launched the Domesday site today...

Paul
The interesting thing in looking at that page is that the second picture shows a close-up of the National disc with a "++" marking on it. Either that's exactly the same disc as I've now got here:

Image

or there was some sort of variety where this marking was put on, presumably in order to ensure that side A is played first.

Anybody else got a Domesday disc with this symbol on?
Image

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by 1024MAK » Sat May 14, 2011 2:40 am

paulv wrote:I've already found several errors in their data encoding of the text data :(

It appears that the content has been maltransformed using at least two different character encoding formats (I'm guessing at ISO-8859-1 and the final encoding of UTF-8)

Essentially, their encoding process has introduced extra UTF-8 control characters that have then been made visible when the data has been re-encoded into another code page incorrectly.

At first I thought it was simply my browser not detecting the correct encoding for the web page but sadly, setting it manually to ISO-8859-1 makes it worse than it is when the browser is left to choose it's own character encoding format (UTF-8).

With UTF-8, the '£' sign appears as £ and when switched to ISO-8859-1 it appears as £2....

Data integrity is lost already... Oh dear :roll:
And like http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/domesday/d ... 00/page/14

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by davidb » Sat May 14, 2011 2:09 pm

"By 1979 the pier was threatened with dosure"

That's another strange mistake, which is the sort of thing you see if you are using Optical Character Recognition (OCR) to recover text. It would be interesting to know how the data was recovered for the Domesday Reloaded site. I'm hoping that they didn't use screendumps and OCR to recover the text...

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by BeebMaster » Mon May 16, 2011 1:58 pm

That would be worrying if screenshots have been OCRed to produce the text, although there are plenty of mistakes in the actual text on the Domesday discs so this might be one example.
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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by Darren Grant » Tue May 17, 2011 10:00 pm

davidb wrote: That's another strange mistake, which is the sort of thing you see if you are using Optical Character Recognition (OCR) to recover text. It would be interesting to know how the data was recovered for the Domesday Reloaded site. I'm hoping that they didn't use screendumps and OCR to recover the text...
The data wasn't OCR'd it was copied from the data files used on the CAMiLEON project that were extracted from the LV-ROM and converted to UTF.

It was decided that when the data was submitted to the BBC for inclusion on the disc that spelling errors would not be corrected. The rationale was that some of the spelling errors may give an insight into the way words are spoken. For example people are often heard to saying 'anythink' rather than 'anything' and often people will then spell it with a k.

I have set-up a 'Domesday Special Interest Group' site on the domain that used to host Adrian Pearce's version of the community disc http://www.domesday1986.com with the idea of getting a bit of a community going for anyone interested in domesday.

EDIT: Perhaps Ian could look up a couple of them to check, if your system is running at the moment.

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by ianSmalls » Thu May 19, 2011 1:49 am

Hi All,

Ive just dragged out my discs from storage and the lable on mine does not have the ++ on.

The only part that I am after now is the SCSI card and if i cannot source one it looks like I will be making one... Im a little bit nervous about making a double sided board.

My player will be having surgery soon too. Just need to finish Uni projects!

Image of my disc...
Image

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by Arcadian » Thu May 19, 2011 8:32 am

ianSmalls wrote:The only part that I am after now is the SCSI card and if i cannot source one it looks like I will be making one... Im a little bit nervous about making a double sided board.
I'm loaning one of my Domesday-equipped BBC Master's to a guy this weekend, so he can clone the SCSI interface and make a run of boards.

Therefore, you might want to hold fire on building your own for a wee while ... ! ;)
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by ianSmalls » Thu May 19, 2011 9:24 am

I was starting to trace the tracks from an image i found online.


Image


download link for hi-res jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_QHv5 ... thtest.jpg

I was going to finish this and then follow the circuit to fill the gaps under the IC's

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by retroclinic » Thu May 19, 2011 1:37 pm

What's the chip under the lower clip?

With a diagram that looks easily fittable into a single XC9536.

Mark.
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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by ianSmalls » Fri May 20, 2011 2:12 am

I dont know to be honest because I havnt finished tracing everything yet.

Im too busy with the last week of uni for the year.

Looking at the circuit I was guessing it was the resistor arrays for the pull up of the SCSI lines but will be unsure until I get further.

It took me ages to find good hi res of the front and back where the IC numbers were readable.

My knowledge of modern electronics is not that good to be honest. I can deal with basic logic like 74 series. I also don't know the values of the caps at the end of each IC.

Link to schematic :
http://www.microcomputer.org.uk/documen ... daptor.png

from this here :
http://www.microcomputer.org.uk/documents/index.php
From memory my images were pulled from here too but have had some image processing done to adjust the colours and improve the contrast ready for tracing.

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by BeebMaster » Fri May 20, 2011 3:15 pm

You might be able to see a bit more clearly here:

http://www.beebmaster.co.uk/domesday/SCSI1.html

If you mean the socketed chip, it's the terminating resistor which runs hot enough to melt diamonds/BeebMaster fingers etc.
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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by Darren Grant » Sun May 22, 2011 1:10 pm

My discs don't have ++ on them either, I wonder if maybe there was a second pressing with some errors fixed? Perhaps one day it would be an idea to extract the data from both discs and then see if there are any differences.

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by ianSmalls » Mon May 23, 2011 9:49 am

Arcadian wrote:I'm loaning one of my Domesday-equipped BBC Master's to a guy this weekend, so he can clone the SCSI interface and make a run of boards.

Therefore, you might want to hold fire on building your own for a wee while ... ! ;)
Just wondering if there is any idea on timescale? Now I have finished Uni for the year im looking to get on this project.

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by Arcadian » Mon May 23, 2011 5:59 pm

Dunno ... lemme find out!
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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by Samwise » Mon May 23, 2011 6:13 pm

Jason's attention has been directed at this topic ...

Sam.

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by flynnjs » Mon May 23, 2011 10:45 pm

Yes, I received the board and a few other goodies today. As there
is so much interest, I'll reprioritise and do the SCSI board first. I'll
try to get my teeth into it tomorrow night.

Do we have any idea of how many of these are in demand? I was
thinking of etching around 10 boards.

Also, do people just want it functional, or "authentic", e.g. same
size/shape etc?
Last edited by flynnjs on Mon May 23, 2011 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by Darren Grant » Mon May 23, 2011 11:10 pm

I'd be interested in one if the price is reasonable, I have a box full of logic ic's if you are short of any. Was going to build the SCSI interface but never did get around to it. It would need to be the same shape and size to fit in the only space for it in the machine.

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by ianSmalls » Mon May 23, 2011 11:23 pm

I would be after at least one, possibly two depending upon price.

As for authentic I would like it to fit within the same location and mounting holes but apart from that I will leave it to you. Lets see what other people think!

I also don't mind if it is discrete logic or a CPLD. If it is discrete logic then I have most of the IC's but dont have the resistor array and do not know the number of it.

Would it help if I finished tracing the images from an earlier post. They are almost done now.

Slightly Different Topic........

Could someone burn the VFS EPROM as my original one is fried, well the AIV cart does not detect so I'm guessing EPROM as there isn't much else that can go wrong in there!

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by flynnjs » Mon May 23, 2011 11:57 pm

The resistor array is a strange device with each signal pin being pulled both up and down. It's 16pin, with 2 pins being used for the common rails leaving 14 signal pins.

Bournes part : 4116R-3-R1/R2 seems to be the correct beast where R1 and R2 are 220R and 330R or vice versa.

Now to find some, else we'll have to put two packages on there.

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by ianSmalls » Tue May 24, 2011 2:14 am

BeebMaster wrote:If you mean the socketed chip, it's the terminating resistor which runs hot enough to melt diamonds/BeebMaster fingers etc.
If there is physically room and if it gets Very HOT is it worth replacing with two arrays to distribute the heat or possibly a few in line resistor networks to save on space.

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by flynnjs » Tue May 24, 2011 6:55 am

Mark wrote:
With a diagram that looks easily fittable into a single XC9536.
Hi Mark, I'm always one for condensing down where possible. In this case
I'm a little wary of swapping out the SCSI inputs for non Schmitt as SCSI
can be a pretty noisey environment. Neither the XC9500 or MAX7000S
support Schmitt inputs, so I'll at minimum break those out as separate
devices.

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by flynnjs » Tue May 24, 2011 11:25 pm

OK, so I made a start this evening. I popped a schematic into Eagle :
AIV-SCSI-sch.png
AIV-SCSI-sch.png (63.4 KiB) Viewed 5548 times
... and then started tinkering with board layout ...
AIV-SCSI-brd.png
AIV-SCSI-brd.png (30.66 KiB) Viewed 5548 times
Looks like the board will be the same width as the original but about 1/3rd of the length. Obviously I now need to route this thing!

If anyone spots any mistakes on the schematic please let me know ASAP. I've swapped out IC1,2 & 3 for 745xx series to the pins are laid out neater.

More in due course.

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Re: Domesday Reloaded

Post by ianSmalls » Wed May 25, 2011 12:43 am

Cheers for the great work so far. I didnt expect it quite this quick. Maybe I should get on fixing the player next!

As for mistakes I'm not sure if it is one but on the original the supply from the PSU is isolated from the rest of the logic and the logic gets the power via the SV1 connector pins 18 & 20.

Also another query is the original had what I think is a cap at the end of most ICs lettered A on the board.

Cheers

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