Raspberry Pi 400

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tarcus69
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by tarcus69 »

mr-macrisc wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:28 pm
I also like how some people are now looking at pcie 1x connector on new computer module and have sata adapters running and some good signs they may get gfx cards running. It at least opens up some desktop storage options
Yes the CM4 and the I/O board look good, although puzzlingly the I/O board only has 2x USB 2. There are some headers for more USB ports but I don't know if they're 2.0 or 3.
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tricky
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by tricky »

I think for accuracy of a 'B', beebjit, but it is very no frills.
b2 maybe a little more friendly.
I haven't run linux in over 20 years, so this info may be wrong!
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by dp11 »

tarcus69 wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:33 pm
Yes the CM4 and the I/O board look good, although puzzlingly the I/O board only has 2x USB 2. There are some headers for more USB ports but I don't know if they're 2.0 or 3.
CM4IO board doesn't have an xHCI controller so there is no USB3 ports. If you want USB3 you can add one on the PCIe bus, but then you don't have access to the PCIe bus.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by flaxcottage »

tarcus69 wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:50 am
JasonStonier wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:43 am
Here's my version - the CherryPi.
Nice, and I'll bet it feels a lot better than this thing (the 400) does!

I move between several different keyboards, a C64, Electron, Beeb, A3000, Pi 400, a laptop, and several DAS tenkeyless keyboards, they all have little variations so I'm always hitting wrong keys which is annoying. The C64 and Acorns have some particularly annoying differences, e.g. delete is at the top right on the C64 and most of the others but on the bottom right on the BBC and Electron. Also on some, the colon and semicolon swap places which is an endless source of "fun"..
Surprisingly I don't find this a problem. I just use whichever keyboard is there for a particular machine, whether it is a PC, Pi, Beeb, Archimedes, whatever. The key positions do not get me confused.

Where I do get confused is when I use B-em. That is seriously broken on the Pi. :( [-X
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JasonStonier
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by JasonStonier »

Yeah, I like B-Em - runs great, but on a Pi 4 it is barely hitting 100% speed which is...frustrating...considering the Pi is the spiritual successor to the Beeb - having said that, I do think B-Em is an exceptional emulator when running on a faster Linux system and I'm not going to complain about something I get for free when I can't begin to understand the code to do anything better.

For a desktop Linux you've always got jsbeeb, which is also excellent, and you can run an instance locally on a loopback web server if your internet connection is a bit slow.
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tarcus69
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by tarcus69 »

JasonStonier wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:24 pm
Yeah, I like B-Em - runs great, but on a Pi 4 it is barely hitting 100% speed which is...frustrating...considering the Pi is the spiritual successor to the Beeb - having said that, I do think B-Em is an exceptional emulator when running on a faster Linux system and I'm not going to complain about something I get for free when I can't begin to understand the code to do anything better.
Is it just bad on the ARM chips all over or just on the Pi 4? I found that FUSE (the Spectrum emulator) ran at 20% on the Pi 4 until I disabled the experimental GL acceleration.
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tarcus69
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by tarcus69 »

flaxcottage wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:37 pm
Surprisingly I don't find this a problem. I just use whichever keyboard is there for a particular machine, whether it is a PC, Pi, Beeb, Archimedes, whatever. The key positions do not get me confused.
I do get used to it quite quickly but as my desktop follows me about I can wind up typing part of a response on an Electron keyboard and finish it on a C64 so do more deleting than I ought to! These old keyboards seem to have debounce issues too, even when running on real hardware, my BBC Master does a few repeat key presses.
flaxcottage wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:37 pm
Where I do get confused is when I use B-em. That is seriously broken on the Pi. :( [-X
I'll have to try that, I had to remove the GL acceleration on the Pi 4 to use the Spectrum emulators.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by Optimus6128 »

Does anybody knows if this supports RiscOS? I know the previous Raspberry PIs do.

I went into compulsive buying and bought this one too early, with the wish to install RiscOS to it, followed all the instructions to write the ROM on the micro SD, but it only boots with the cursor on the upper left blinking for too long over a minute, not sure if I did something wrong or simply the RPI 400 doesn't support it yet. I will try later to reformat and try with another micro sd just in case.
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BigEd
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by BigEd »

I think the 400 is very like the 4, and that does seem to be supported now:
Installing RISC OS on the Raspberry Pi 4
Raspberry Pi 4 port status
Some success reported here.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by helpful »

Need a beta RISC OS ROM for it to work on the Pi400 at the moment. See this thread - https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums ... sts-109166
RISC OS User Group Of London - http://www.rougol.jellybaby.net/
RISC OS London Show - http://www.riscoslondonshow.co.uk/
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by English Invader »

I ordered one of these this morning. I'm really excited about it. I was only an infant when the micro revolution was happening (my first computer was an Atari ST) so I see this as my chance to get a brand new micro computer and be part of a coding revolution while it's happening instead of looking at it 40 years later.

The keyboard has been highly praised in the reviews as has the cooling inside the keyboard (Pi barely gets above 50 degrees despite the CPU having a faster clock speed than the Pi 4). I think it might even be safe to say that the Pi 400 is the Sinclair ZX-80 done right (a functional, comfortable to use computer for less than £100).
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by Andy1979 »

JasonStonier wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:24 pm
Yeah, I like B-Em - runs great, but on a Pi 4 it is barely hitting 100% speed which is...frustrating...considering the Pi is the spiritual successor to the Beeb - having said that, I do think B-Em is an exceptional emulator when running on a faster Linux system and I'm not going to complain about something I get for free when I can't begin to understand the code to do anything better.

For a desktop Linux you've always got jsbeeb, which is also excellent, and you can run an instance locally on a loopback web server if your internet connection is a bit slow.
Are any of the Risc OS Beeb emulators any better? (given the Pi 4 / 400 can run Risc OS now?)
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by helpful »

Andy1979 wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:49 pm
Are any of the Risc OS Beeb emulators any better? (given the Pi 4 / 400 can run Risc OS now?)
BeebIt is the best Beeb emulator on RISC OS - https://mjfoot.netlify.app/bbc.htm

It runs at full speed even on a Pi1 IIRC, so no problem on a Pi4.
RISC OS User Group Of London - http://www.rougol.jellybaby.net/
RISC OS London Show - http://www.riscoslondonshow.co.uk/
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by Stainy »

So I`m going to be putting Risc OS on my pi 400. I want to install Beebit .. but it requires something that isn`t available.

Requires 32 bit system modules. Available from Castle Technology.

Anyone have them?

Thanks
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by richw »

Those modules will be included in RISC OS 5, don't panic.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by Stainy »

ok thanks .. when is that going to be available ?

oh so if I`m putting 5.28 on then it`s already installed?
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by Bobbi »

Does anyone know if PiTubeDirect runs on the Pi400? Looking for an excuse to buy one :)
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by dp11 »

I see no reason why not. But do be careful about the length of ribbon cable and the end you put your level translator.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by BigEd »

(...and note that you'll need a power supply for the 400 - it can't be powered from the expansion port, AIUI.)
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by IanS »

BigEd wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:38 am
(...and note that you'll need a power supply for the 400 - it can't be powered from the expansion port, AIUI.)
I was going to post something very similar, based on the write-up in https://hackaday.com/2020/11/25/a-raspb ... n-sailing/
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by Bobbi »

How long can the Tube ribbon cable be? And which end should my level shifter be at?
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by Andy1979 »

Well, look what I got as a birthday present this week. There are now some very clear instructions on the RiscOS website on how to get this running, didn't take long at all.
IMG_0511.jpg
Not done anything with it yet, when I get time I'll transfer over my files from my Pi2 and see if everything works.

Amuses me that I have 4gb of RAM but can only use 2gb of my SD card (without purchasing additional software or serious messing around with partition tables). That should be plenty though given this is for tinkering with my 1990s Risc OS files and software, and I can always pop in a USB stick if needs be.

As far as other uses go, Retropie is a lot of fun :D
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by danielj »

That's excellent. Shame it's hobbled by the standard RISC OS practice of trying to monetise everything :(
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by sydney »

Warning! Some possibly silly questions ahead!
Does anyone know how the cpu in the pi4/400 compares to other ARM cpus? I'm not thinking the M1 but just generally? Where does it sit in the range of stuff available?

What about comparing with Intel/AMD? I realise it's not going to be competitive with current cpus and that a direct comparison isn't necessarily sensible but what sort of performance does it deliver?
Looking at geekbench 5 results it's about the same as the cpu in this laptop a Celeron n2830 on single core and 50% faster on multicore.
Windows 10 is pretty terrible on this laptop but it runs light Linux distros fine. And now I've installed beebjit it's even good at emulating a beeb on linux.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by Andy1979 »

It's not especially speedy, as these benchmarks show:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... =Raspberry

I tried the official Raspberry Pi 64-bit build of Ubuntu 20.10 on it yesterday and it was usable but a bit slow, think I'll be sticking with Raspberry Pi OS. Running it all from an SD-card (albeit a decent one) probably doesn't help matters.

RiscOS flies on it of course, and Retropie is great for the 16-bit consoles. Intend to try dosbox on it at some point.

If you want something small to run serious things on, probably better off with one of the Intel NUC style micro PCs, or a Mac mini.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by dp11 »

Pi400 is clocked at 1.8GHz where as the benchmarks are for a pi4 @ 1.5GHz. The internet appears to be happy to over clock the Pi400 as well for extra performance.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by Richard Russell »

Andy1979 wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:37 am
It's not especially speedy
That's an understatement, even when compared with other ARM devices (for example my Android phone is much faster, and will run things that crash the RPi4, such as complex shader programs). But it's not fair to compare it with something costing many times more.

Running my BBC BASIC on the RPi4 (Raspbian) here's what the ClockSp benchmark program reports; I've not tried it on the RPi 400 (not getting it until Christmas Day!):

Code: Select all

BBC BASIC CPU Timing Program
Really real REPEAT loop   5189.87MHz
Integer REPEAT loop       3621.21MHz
Really real FOR loop     15515.15MHz
Integer FOR loop          5562.50MHz
Trig/Log test           114666.66MHz
String manipulation       9326.92MHz
Procedure call            9147.72MHz
GOSUB call                5487.80MHz
Combined Average         21631.78MHz

Compared with a 2.00MHz BBC B
So the 'average' is 10,000 times faster than a BBC B, but that's heavily skewed by the Trig/Log test.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by sweh »

Has anyone booted RiscOS from a USB stick on this thing? Since I have more spare USB sticks that microSD cards, I thought I'd try it.

The machine starts to boot but then aborts with a "can't find disk" type of error and drops me into the "*" command prompt window. I can do "*BASIC" to get into BASIC, but obviously the main desktop hasn't loaded.

My _guess_ is the Pi400 image on the RiscOS site is looking for the SD card as the hard drive...
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by Bobbi »

Haven't tried with a USB stick but I do have RiscOS dual-booting sharing an SD card with Raspbian. The trick is to install using NOOBS and select both operating systems. It has a nice boot menu to select the OS.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 400

Post by BigEd »

I'm led to believe that booting from USB is faster (and also more robust in case of abrupt power cuts) - can anyone confirm?
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