Disc or Disk. Silly-Season debate.

on-topic Acorn-related news and discussions not covered by the other forums
User avatar
CMcDougall
Posts: 6875
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Shadow in a Valley of Scotland
Contact:

Disc or Disk. Silly-Season debate.

Post by CMcDougall » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:25 pm

jgharston wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:04 am
programs running on this laptop can read and write DFS disk images
:roll: it's called emulate :roll:

We are not American, Acorn was British, so it's disc, checks all install/manuals written by Acorn to confirm correct spelling #-o

anyways,
Great Julie for another disc manager =D> =D> =D>

There is another good one recently made by YellowPig a few threads below this, good work also went into it, worth a read to confirm things for your proggy 8)
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Richard Russell
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Downham Market, Norfolk
Contact:

Re: DFSBuster

Post by Richard Russell » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:03 pm

CMcDougall wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:25 pm
We are not American, Acorn was British, so it's disc
Not necessarily. It states here that "in computer terminology today it is common for the "k" word to refer mainly to magnetic storage devices (particularly in British English where the term disk is sometimes regarded as a contraction of diskette...". It also notes that disk is the earlier spelling, predating disc by a couple of hundred years.

User avatar
davidb
Posts: 2558
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:11 pm
Contact:

Re: DFSBuster

Post by davidb » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:14 pm

To avoid problems in the future, I will be referring to them as discks. Just be careful how you type it. ;)

User avatar
sweh
Posts: 2106
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:05 pm
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Re: DFSBuster

Post by sweh » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:20 am

davidb wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:14 pm
To avoid problems in the future, I will be referring to them as discks. Just be careful how you type it. ;)
Does that me we can call you a "floppy head" ? :lol:
Last edited by sweh on Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rgds
Stephen

User avatar
CMcDougall
Posts: 6875
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Shadow in a Valley of Scotland
Contact:

Re: DFSBuster

Post by CMcDougall » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:33 pm

Richard Russell wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:03 pm
Not necessarily.
Already re inventin the wheel, try reading the ultimate thread on this, burries somewhere but people with sense used Disc, hence all menus and on bbcmicro games, uses DISC :roll:
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Richard Russell
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Downham Market, Norfolk
Contact:

Re: DFSBuster

Post by Richard Russell » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:12 pm

CMcDougall wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:33 pm
hence all menus and on bbcmicro games, uses DISC
I've checked through the documentation of BBC BASIC for Windows and the spelling disc is used only in the context of graphics, as in "CIRCLE: A statement which draws a circle or disc (filled circle)" and "PLOT 152-159: Plot and fill a disc". In the context of the magnetic storage medium the spelling disk is used consistently.

If you prefer Acorn references to mine then I would refer you to the 'Advanced Disk User Guide for the BBC Micro' in which the K spelling is used throughout except, amusingly: "*DISC or *DISK: This command is used to change from any other filing system to the DFS"!

User avatar
CMcDougall
Posts: 6875
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Shadow in a Valley of Scotland
Contact:

Re: DFSBuster

Post by CMcDougall » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:19 pm

Richard Russell wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:12 pm
BBC BASIC for Windows
thats American crap from M$oft :lol:

i rest my case, as can't find the thread burried about DISC is correct, as when I search Disc, 78+ pages comes up, only 10 for Disk :roll:
Attachments
discManuals.jpg
Last edited by danielj on Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImageImage

User avatar
MartinB
Posts: 5254
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:04 pm
Location: Obscurity
Contact:

Re: DFSBuster

Post by MartinB » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:35 pm

disck.jpg

I put it to the public vote and we have a clear winner.... :D

User avatar
CMcDougall
Posts: 6875
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Shadow in a Valley of Scotland
Contact:

Re: DFSBuster

Post by CMcDougall » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:01 pm

am always a winner Martin :wink:

i've tried to find the original debate thread, but just end up with lots of pages :cry:

so, thought I better just ask the doctor & his friends :
discDoc.jpg
discFS.jpg
Sorry Julie for this thread hijack [-o< but it all started with the bad JGH post, now all went pear shaped :(
hijack.jpg
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Richard Russell
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Downham Market, Norfolk
Contact:

Re: DFSBuster

Post by Richard Russell » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:26 pm

CMcDougall wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:19 pm
Richard Russell wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:12 pm
BBC BASIC for Windows
thats American crap from M$oft :lol:
Thanks for that. It's the first time my product has been called "crap" in the nearly 18 years since it was first released. Do you have any specific criticisms, other than that it runs on (by far) the most popular Operating System?

guesser
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: DFSBuster

Post by guesser » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:28 pm

#-o
A web based teletext editor which can export as Mode 7 screen memory: https://zxnet.co.uk/teletext/editor
Join the Teletext Discord for teletext chat.

User avatar
CMcDougall
Posts: 6875
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Shadow in a Valley of Scotland
Contact:

Re: DFSBuster

Post by CMcDougall » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:58 pm

Richard Russell wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:26 pm
runs on (by far) the most popular Operating System?
that's because boring people are like sheep! same as BetaMax was better than VHS :shock:
business is built on M$oft crap, why would my accounts / tax / audit / financial planning progs be written for DOS if only 2% of market use it... #-o
ImageImageImage

Soruk
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:31 am
Location: Basingstoke, Hampshire
Contact:

Re: DFSBuster

Post by Soruk » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:08 pm

Richard Russell wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:26 pm
CMcDougall wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:19 pm
Richard Russell wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:12 pm
BBC BASIC for Windows
thats American crap from M$oft :lol:
Thanks for that. It's the first time my product has been called "crap" in the nearly 18 years since it was first released. Do you have any specific criticisms, other than that it runs on (by far) the most popular Operating System?
I would like to think he was referring to Windows, not your BBC BASIC that was written to run on top of it.
As for popular, it's only on the most machines, because it's damn near impossible to buy a new machine without it.
Last edited by Soruk on Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

julie_m
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:53 pm
Location: Derby, UK
Contact:

Re: DFSBuster

Post by julie_m » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:28 pm

Isn't Android the most popular Operating System now, what with mobile devices outnumbering PCs?

Of course, that's really just a Linux kernel with a different GUI layer on top .....

User avatar
Richard Russell
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Downham Market, Norfolk
Contact:

Re: DFSBuster

Post by Richard Russell » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:52 pm

Soruk wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:08 pm
I would like to think he was referring to Windows, not your BBC BASIC that was written to run on top of it.
I might like to think that too, but it's not how it reads to me. :cry:
julie_m wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:28 pm
Isn't Android the most popular Operating System now, what with mobile devices outnumbering PCs?
True, I should have said desktop OS.

Coeus
Posts: 1415
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:05 am
Contact:

Re: DFSBuster

Post by Coeus » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:06 pm

CMcDougall wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:19 pm
Richard Russell wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:12 pm
BBC BASIC for Windows
thats American crap from M$oft :lol:
Did you realise BBC BASIC for Windows was written by Richard Russell? That would mean Richard would be searching his own documentation but perhaps the significance of that is that the BBC has, at least historically, tried to maintain a good standard of English in it's output. Granted Richard worked in engineering rather than producing radio or TV output but I am sure this was part of the organisational culture.
Last edited by Coeus on Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Rich Talbot-Watkins
Posts: 1558
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:20 pm
Location: Palma, Mallorca
Contact:

Re: DFSBuster

Post by Rich Talbot-Watkins » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:40 am

I'm amazed to "disc"over there's a Wikipedia article on this very subject.

I've always used "disc" for objects and media which are actually disc shaped (e.g. CDs), and "disk" for other magnetic media, but it does indeed seem to be a UK/US thing to some extent. A few of the British 80's computer manufacturers adopted the "disc" spelling (not just Acorn, but also Sinclair and Amstrad), while Commodore and IBM were firmly in the "disk" camp.

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 7682
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Manchester
Contact:

Re: Disc or Disk. Silly-Season debate.

Post by danielj » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:29 am

So far off topic even my eyes were beginning to bleed.

User avatar
1024MAK
Posts: 9496
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:46 pm
Location: Looking forward to summer in Somerset, UK...
Contact:

Re: Disc or Disk. Silly-Season debate.

Post by 1024MAK » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:42 am

26ED94DC-F1B4-477A-97AD-973AA3A2B794.png
Disk ...

User avatar
1024MAK
Posts: 9496
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:46 pm
Location: Looking forward to summer in Somerset, UK...
Contact:

Re: Disc or Disk. Silly-Season debate.

Post by 1024MAK » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:48 am

Image
Last edited by 1024MAK on Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

cmorley
Posts: 1113
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:11 pm
Location: Oxford
Contact:

Re: Disc or Disk. Silly-Season debate.

Post by cmorley » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:52 am

Tandy... from Fort Worth, Texas USA.

User avatar
Richard Russell
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Downham Market, Norfolk
Contact:

Re: Disc or Disk. Silly-Season debate.

Post by Richard Russell » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:53 am

Rich Talbot-Watkins wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:40 am
I've always used "disc" for objects and media which are actually disc shaped (e.g. CDs)
CDs are definitely 'discs' because it's a trademarked name.
and "disk" for other magnetic media
Floppies are definitely 'disks' because it's a shortening of 'diskette'.

But that leaves magnetic hard discs/disks and there are no similar arguments that can settle that one. The BBC's current view (at least as expressed at their Learning English pages) is that "Disk is generally used to talk about computing, and disc is used for CDs". Most other reference works that I can find agree.

But language changes, and it may well be that in the 1980s the spelling 'disc' for magnetic media was more widespread in the UK than it is now. Collins English Dictionary, in its English in Use section. uses the interesting phrase "Some computer manuals insist on the spelling disc" tacitly acknowledging that there are strong views on the subject!

User avatar
1024MAK
Posts: 9496
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:46 pm
Location: Looking forward to summer in Somerset, UK...
Contact:

Re: Disc or Disk. Silly-Season debate.

Post by 1024MAK » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:04 am

CMcDougall wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:01 pm
i've tried to find the original debate thread, but just end up with lots of pages :cry:
One?

Which one?

Here are THREE (I stopped looking after the first three...)

Disc vs. Disk

2010

2012

2013

Personally, I think they should be called squares, as the user never normally sees any disc shape... :lol:

By the way, how many English words are there for a place that will sell you alcoholic drinks that you can then drink on the spot, that is, apart from the name ‘public house’?
And how many English words are there that mean an alcoholic drink?
And how many English words are there that mean rain, or to rain?

With all of these, is there any that are more ‘right’ than ‘wrong’?

Mark
Last edited by 1024MAK on Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
1024MAK
Posts: 9496
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:46 pm
Location: Looking forward to summer in Somerset, UK...
Contact:

Re: Disc or Disk. Silly-Season debate.

Post by 1024MAK » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:07 am

cmorley wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:52 am
Tandy... from Fort Worth, Texas USA.
And used all around the world including in the U.K.
The very same place where we have multiple spelling of various words and place names...

Mark

cmorley
Posts: 1113
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:11 pm
Location: Oxford
Contact:

Re: Disc or Disk. Silly-Season debate.

Post by cmorley » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:11 am

No one is suggesting that disk isn't valid. The propsal is that disc is the Acorn term.

User avatar
1024MAK
Posts: 9496
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:46 pm
Location: Looking forward to summer in Somerset, UK...
Contact:

Re: Disc or Disk. Silly-Season debate.

Post by 1024MAK » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:24 am

cmorley wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:11 am
No one is suggesting that disk isn't valid. The propsal is that disc is the Acorn term.
I’m not suggesting that disc isn’t valid either. Acorn did appear to use disc more than disk.

It’s interesting to see which is used in this document "Outline specification for the BBC MICROCOMPUTER system"

The reality is that both disc and disk have been used in the past and both continue to used in the present. So there is no right or wrong answer.

Just like there is no right or wrong answer to the question, should I use ‘adapter’ or ‘adaptor’? When used to refer to an electrical device (PSU) or connector...

Mark

cmorley
Posts: 1113
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:11 pm
Location: Oxford
Contact:

Re: Disc or Disk. Silly-Season debate.

Post by cmorley » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:37 am

1024MAK wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:24 am
It’s interesting to see which is used in this document "Outline specification for the BBC MICROCOMPUTER system"
That's a BBC document not an Acorn document isn't it?

The BBC Microcomputer User Guide refers to the disc and disc system all the way through. So does the ADFS user guide - up to the

Code: Select all

*DISC The floppy disc (FM format) filing system
*DISK Alternative spelling for the above
part.

2nd Proc UG. Disc Filing System Guide. All Acorn all Disc.

User avatar
Rich Talbot-Watkins
Posts: 1558
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:20 pm
Location: Palma, Mallorca
Contact:

Re: Disc or Disk. Silly-Season debate.

Post by Rich Talbot-Watkins » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:59 am

The use of 'disc' seems to have been a curiously British thing around the 80's.

Image
Spectrum

(although the text in the advert actually says "disk drive"!)

Image
Amstrad

ImageImage
Oric

And, as we know, Acorn opted for 'disc' as well in all their literature.

It seems, as much as anything, a stylistic preference. The word was already relatively new so it's not like you could cite centuries-old precedents. I think, these days, 'disk' has pretty much taken over in common usage - probably due to the dominance of American companies. But clearly neither is incorrect. (Apart from 'disc') ;)

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 7682
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Manchester
Contact:

Re: disck or disck. Silly-Season debate.

Post by danielj » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:59 am

I fear my attempt at humour may have backfired here... Let's see if I can undo this!

d.

User avatar
Rich Talbot-Watkins
Posts: 1558
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:20 pm
Location: Palma, Mallorca
Contact:

Re: disck or disck. Silly-Season debate.

Post by Rich Talbot-Watkins » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:02 am

danielj wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:59 am
I fear my attempt at humour may have backfired here... Let's see if I can undo this!

d.
Hahaha! I already found a way of working around the word filter in my last post ;)

Post Reply