BBC releases computer history archive

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sbadger
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BBC releases computer history archive

Post by sbadger » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:17 pm

Last edited by sbadger on Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So many projects, so little time...

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jonb
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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by jonb » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:19 pm

Beat me to it Stew

Nerdgasm or what?

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sbadger
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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by sbadger » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:43 pm

jonb wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:19 pm
Beat me to it Stew

Nerdgasm or what?
THERE IS SO MUCH STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock:
So many projects, so little time...


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davidb
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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by davidb » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:54 pm

Interesting to see that the archive uses jsbeeb to run programs in the browser. Another round of applause for Matt Godbolt and friends, I think. =D>

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vanpeebles
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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by vanpeebles » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:06 pm

I hope you all wear smart jumpers while using your beebs! :lol:

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jonb
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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by jonb » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:16 pm

Nah, I was the spotty kid with the faded tee shirt hacking hand assembled code on a ZX81 while my best friend (who I was very envious of) turned out wonderful, flicker free, colourful, musical and fast programs on his Model B.

He had several very nice jumpers.
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Elminster
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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by Elminster » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:36 pm

I saw this on Facebook group this morning and shared with all my relatives and friends so they could share the joy.

I was ahead of my time. I wore jogger bottoms before they were fashionable for youths to wear. As soon as they became fashionable I switched to jeans @ 17 not long after going to an Amiga 500.

Edit: Started on 1980 so far, never seen these ones before.
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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by OneSwitch » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:29 pm

Thanks for sharing this. Amazing resource, especially (for me) the disability stuff. Brilliant.

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by daveejhitchins » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:20 am

Ah! The memories - - - Wonderful . . .

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by vanpeebles » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:17 am

jonb wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:16 pm
Nah, I was the spotty kid with the faded tee shirt hacking hand assembled code on a ZX81 while my best friend (who I was very envious of) turned out wonderful, flicker free, colourful, musical and fast programs on his Model B.

He had several very nice jumpers.
Lesson to be learned there!! :lol:

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Richard Russell
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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by Richard Russell » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:29 am

Here is an iPlayer Radio link to the piece in yesterday's PM programme about the launch (available in the UK for another 29 days at the time of posting).

Richard.

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by hicks » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:32 am

I should have known I wouldn't need to mention it here and that you'd all already know :D Lots to watch, this is great.

I wonder if the BBC could be persuaded in the name of preserving history, to spend some resources tracking down the current rights holder of the BBC's OS and open it all up. I assume it's changed hands along with the Electron's?

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by Elminster » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:45 am

hicks wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:32 am

I wonder if the BBC could be persuaded in the name of preserving history, to spend some resources tracking down the current rights holder of the BBC's OS and open it all up. I assume it's changed hands along with the Electron's?
What were you hoping to achieve?

I watched epsidoe 1 of silicon factor from 1980 last night, never seen that one, was expecting to have a laugh at how wrong they got everthing but in fact they were pretty accurate really about what would happen. I was quite impresssed.

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by hicks » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:03 pm

Elminster wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:45 am
What were you hoping to achieve?
Nothing in particular, but it'd be nice to be able to legally distribute the ROMs for the Electron/BBC both in terms of FPGA cores and for emulators. Also, never know what comments in source might reveal that can be missed when reviewing disassembled versions. Plain curiosity too :)

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by Commie_User » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:35 am

Now, how to keep them, after the BBC have discontinued them? The Torch grabber is behind at the moment and Softonic is too old. Of the free ones, this kind-of works fine: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/deta ... eaoi?hl=en

A Chrome/Torch add-on which grabs the packets as you watch them, or afterwards when you dump the complete clip string. The completed video comes in fragments but there it all is.

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by sbadger » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:14 pm

Commie_User wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:35 am
Now, how to keep them, after the BBC have discontinued them? The Torch grabber is behind at the moment and Softonic is too old. Of the free ones, this kind-of works fine: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/deta ... eaoi?hl=en

A Chrome/Torch add-on which grabs the packets as you watch them, or afterwards when you dump the complete clip string. The completed video comes in fragments but there it all is.
I use an addon for firefox called ant video downloader. I've not tried it on these streams but usually works for most things.
I'll have a go when I get home from work.
So many projects, so little time...

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by Commie_User » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:56 pm

That works a treat. The extension detects the video played, it even lets me select a resolution and then mixes the downloaded packets to a single complete video file.

It's not often you get quality akin to the master tapes when looking up these BBC videos, so I say to all of us - grab 'em and archive 'em.

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sbadger
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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by sbadger » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:25 pm

Commie_User wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:56 pm
That works a treat. The extension detects the video played, it even lets me select a resolution and then mixes the downloaded packets to a single complete video file.

It's not often you get quality akin to the master tapes when looking up these BBC videos, so I say to all of us - grab 'em and archive 'em.
Yeah it's a good tool, works well. Snagging these though, you'll need space, I've just got season one of micro live and it's 5.5gb (only x6 episodes) series two is 20 episodes, as is series 3. I'm reluctant to compress but might have to.

EDIT : Series Two seems slights smaller per episode, ~550mb each, so about 10gb per season.
Last edited by sbadger on Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
So many projects, so little time...

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by Commie_User » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:20 pm

USB hard drive? Or dumping to DVD Rom? That can save some space for later.

Or maybe make full DVD Videos? Then play through your classic Trinitron or Deccacolour for that ultimate blast to the past!

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by VectorEyes » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:25 pm

Time to buy a nice big external hard drive! Or two. :)

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by Commie_User » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:29 pm

Yup. Knowing the BBC, any video of theirs won't be there for all that long.


And watching Micro Live before, I got the feeling Brian Jacks was a bit bewildered through his whole computerisation.

First he was immortalised in an extremely clumsy, clodhoppy game and then the BBC sent him out to get a computer. He didn't really know what he wanted and he came back with an Atari, just because it appeared to make more sense to get it going.

The kids had a tinker and his wife did some typing but I look back and think no wonder ordinary blokes like him (or my dad) wouldn't have seen any real bonus in a computer until the Internet got going.


And it's great seeing these old computers, the old streets, old shops and old values preserved in the best quality yet!

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by Richard Russell » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:40 pm

Commie_User wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:56 pm
It's not often you get quality akin to the master tapes when looking up these BBC videos, so I say to all of us - grab 'em and archive 'em.
Sadly the quality is variable and AIUI everything is 25p not 50p, so motion and de-interlacing artefacts are the norm. Apparently some of the material was sourced from YouTube anyway! They have been hinting today that they may revisit the encoding (switching to 50p would make a big difference), but only if funds are made available.

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by Commie_User » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:45 pm

Still, to my eyes, it's better than it was. Especially the studio-based programmes. The resolution's still around DVD quality and there's a lovely, stable crisp big picture when I play them back on VLC Player.

I've not watched it all yet, so I'm not sure where the Youtube ones are. But if beggars can't be choosers, I'm still one beggar who feels lucky to have found some discarded rump steak.

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by Commie_User » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:54 pm

I'm sure it doesn't look its best but for 80s television programmes, I think 25p is very forgiving.

I've even seen some of these old BBC things, like Threads, on VCD - and while it's lower quality, it loses less than I would have thought compared to a DVD release.
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Elminster
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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by Elminster » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:54 pm

As back in the day I watched these on my manual tune black and white 10 inch tv in my bedroom, it looks fab to me.

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by lcww1 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:29 am

Running the BBC Computer Literacy Project Software in jsbeeb is fun, but I wanted to run this software on original hardware, so here are the ssds from https://computer-literacy-project.pilot ... co.uk/beeb:

BBCCLP.zip
BBC CLP SSDs
(1.73 MiB) Downloaded 22 times

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by Richard Russell » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:44 am

Commie_User wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:54 pm
for 80s television programmes, I think 25p is very forgiving.
I would say that's very much a minority point of view! Imposing 'film motion' on something originally shot on 50i video will cause many people (including me) much discomfort, and of course it means the performance of the deinterlacer is crucial - the one the CLPA used is not the one the BBC normally prefers.

Anything from the 1980s stored in the BBC's archives should have been transferred from the original analogue tape via the Transform PAL Decoder and therefore be in immaculate (near digital-component) quality. It does need to be converted to a progressive format for streaming, but it is well established that de-interlacing to 50p is better than de-interlacing to 25p (which after all implies throwing half away).

I admit that having worked at BBC R&D for 33 years I have become highly sensitised to video artefacts, and things which I may find disturbing will not necessarily be as apparent to other viewers. But that's not a good reason for the CLPA material to be worse than it needed to be; there have been a number of adverse comments about the quality at 'professional' Facebook groups.

Richard.

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by Elminster » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:05 am

I think most of us are happy it survived at all, but if it gets ‘sorted’ and made even better then everyone will be even happier :D

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Re: BBC releases computer history archive

Post by PitfallJones » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:22 am

lcww1 wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:29 am
Running the BBC Computer Literacy Project Software in jsbeeb is fun, but I wanted to run this software on original hardware, so here are the ssds from https://computer-literacy-project.pilot ... co.uk/beeb:


BBCCLP.zip
Thanks so much for that - I was trying to download them myself (unsuccessfully) - I was thinking I was going to have to type "LIST" and video the screen - ha! ha! How did you do it?

It's great the BBC had kept them all - I was imagining they were lost in time after all these years!

And the videos are terrific of course - the only copies I had before looked like very poor VHS rips.

I love JAN31 on #20 - the very program that did the end credits for the show - brilliant!

PJ

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