GALLERY: Do you back up your tapes to WAV?

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Commie_User
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GALLERY: Do you back up your tapes to WAV?

Post by Commie_User » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:42 pm

And if so, any pics of the collection? I can't be the only one who likes a gawp at people's packages, whether large or small! Here's half of my pot.

I've been having a go at that, from hifi or Dixons portable to Soundblaster Audigy. And just in time, as some tapes slip on the capstan more and more. Or drift around the head. With Arcadians, I had to pack the deck with paper and weigh down the cassette with a jam jar for good holding! In two halves. And with the game such a hot favourite of mine, it's like gold to have it slip easily into the Beeb again.

And if people have, then is there a pool somewhere? The 8 bit waveform spat out by FreeUEF is more failure than success, by a massive margin. Even worn out cassettes are far less the pain.
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paulv
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Re: GALLERY: Do you back up your tapes to WAV?

Post by paulv » Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:04 am

WAV is a bit wasteful so, record to hi quality WAV then use a converter to convert them to UEF as you've tried. Once they're UEF's you can use them all with an emulator and MOST with UPURS for Beeb and Elk difectly. You can always convert the UEF's back to WAV too.

http://gazstone.com/freeuef.htm - FreeUEF as you've tried

viewtopic.php?t=9382

http://www.stairwaytohell.com/essential ... e=homepage - MakeUEF is available here

http://www.retro-kit.co.uk/page.cfm/con ... RAM-board/ - info on Elk UPURS with a demo of loading one into an Elk directly

If you're having so many issues with FreeUEF then some of the other tools may help like MakeUEF or using CSW...

viewtopic.php?t=4969

Getting UEF's conversions to work can be a pain but there's plenty of info on here about getting the configuration just right...

Paul

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CMcDougall
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Re: GALLERY: Do you back up your tapes to WAV?

Post by CMcDougall » Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:36 pm

I always make .WAV files, as converting back IS NOT archived properly (ok for emulator), as the convertion from .UEF /CSW is NOT very good :x

here is how to make .CSW .hqUEF .UEF :
http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewto ... 987#p56019

all my original BITD tapes are done from under the bed, and ones that people send me to archive properly, also ones free with £12 beebs /elks :D
some of the pics of tapes here, if can see them on boringBook (only usefull for pic host :lol: ):
https://www.facebook.com/djdougs.mcdoug ... 729&type=3
still to add about another 50+ :shock:

I find .CSW files are MUCH better for converting back to .WAV for loading into actual machine (FreeUEF only 40% success)
using the BackToLife prog here:
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinc ... ToLife.zip

done about 300 so far ((add 40+ for Atom) also 10+crap C16 /spectrum etc) and a 320GB hard disc full of original .WAVs :roll:

PS for hard tapes, record them on a decent £900+ Sony Hi-Fi onto good TDK D90 tape, then convert that as it stops squeak /auto-stop kicking in.
plus can record 10 bad tapes (with radio between each tape for markers), then rip 47mins a side at a time :wink:
PPS also try TapDancer if got a decent Android mobile /tablet : http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewto ... er#p104386 (does a good job of .UEF .hqUEF files to play to beeb /elk (not tried Atom ...yet))
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Re: GALLERY: Do you back up your tapes to WAV?

Post by Commie_User » Sat Jul 09, 2016 3:57 pm

CMcDougall wrote:I find .CSW files are MUCH better for converting back to .WAV for loading into actual machine (FreeUEF only 40% success)
using the BackToLife prog here:
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinc ... ToLife.zip

Sounds good. I've downloaded that. But where are the CSW image files to play with?

Nice tapes, BTW.

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Re: GALLERY: Do you back up your tapes to WAV?

Post by CMcDougall » Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:26 pm

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=5023#p45962 mine in the Archive submit section:
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Re: GALLERY: Do you back up your tapes to WAV?

Post by Commie_User » Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:13 pm


You don't do things by halves, do you? I'm only just beginning to taste these but THANKS a whopping great LOT! 8) :D =D>

My poor sound card will be grinding away for weeks. If you want any of my WAVS, then PM me and let's see what we can do.

Also, unless you've covered it, is there a tool to cross-convert? Maybe go from UEF to CSW? The emulators take them perfectly well, so there could be promise.

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Re: GALLERY: Do you back up your tapes to WAV?

Post by CMcDougall » Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:04 pm

no probs 8)
yeah, never do halves, always nail it full on :lol:
not much point doing UEF to CSW, it's like converting a 64 mono MP3 to a 320 stereo MP3 [-X
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Re: GALLERY: Do you back up your tapes to WAV?

Post by Commie_User » Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:28 pm

I've had no problem converting to UEF but for the life of me, I fail to see how serial data transfer of the tape stream was never the BBC staple. Over for the Commodore, PC packages like MTAP/PTAP made flawless tape images, as it saved just the data coming in the PC data port from the 64. Meaning the file was made a first generation copy, with no noise, dropouts and fading pulses as-per audio dubbing a tape source.

I know of one similar Beeb solution, a USB one for such a transfer job. And if I didn't plan buying another Beeb with a working joystick port, I'd go back to my flash device anyway.


paulv wrote:Getting UEF's conversions to work can be a pain but there's plenty of info on here about getting the configuration just right...

Paul
PC software with graphic equalisers really get the failure rate down; that is, with tape archives good enough for conversion back to audio at all. It's all about copy generations, each turn around the mill getting crappier quality each time.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11465&p=143452#p143397

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Re: GALLERY: Do you back up your tapes to WAV?

Post by Commie_User » Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:28 am

And just for a note, my Sherwood AX-5090R amplifier feeds converted UEFs flawlessly, while the direct soundcard out does not. Nor with the signal through the Soundcraft mixer channel with all the aid there.

http://gazstone.com/freeuef.htm

How does that work? How is that even done?
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So there it is then, copy whatever to my little cassette from my attenuated headphone output, volume at nine or ten o'clock.

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Re: GALLERY: Do you back up your tapes to WAV?

Post by poink » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:30 pm

Commie_User wrote:I've had no problem converting to UEF but for the life of me, I fail to see how serial data transfer of the tape stream was never the BBC staple.
My understanding is that the Beeb's tape handling itself is fairly robust.

I suspect that tools to handle UEF on more boring machines suffer slightly because the main focus on the Beeb has tended to be disc - it wasn't until version 5 that UPURS gained cassette support.

I think that's because of the market penetration of floppy drives amongst active Beeb users - the vast majority of Beeb software seems to have been available on disc. Purchasers of the Beeb were, by definition, comparatively well heeled, plus the Beeb had provision for an on-board floppy interface (and one was included on the Master-series and AIUI the B+).
Commie_User wrote:How does that work? How is that even done?
I suspect that the output of the mixer has a significantly higher current capacity than that of your soundcard; and the impedance presented by the Beeb is low enough to appreciably distort the waveform; any sort of buffering, be that a headphone amplifier or an audio mixing console, would be likely to fix it.

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Re: GALLERY: Do you back up your tapes to WAV?

Post by Commie_User » Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:10 pm

I did think about that. But dubbing to cassette, which then plays in from a low impedence tape deck, is a fail too. And the amp is odds-on high impedence, yet still worked on all Beebs, regardless whether I'm attenuating the signal.

Now I find the tape copies boot flawlessly into my new BBC, while the tape-only one still rejects the UEFs. From the same deck. Or any method. All other tapes boot flawlessly on either, be they home made or commercial.

There's being mysterious and alluring, and there's just taking the piss. Right, Acorn? 8)

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Re: GALLERY: Do you back up your tapes to WAV?

Post by poink » Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:48 pm

Commie_User wrote:There's being mysterious and alluring, and there's just taking the piss. Right, Acorn? 8)
Tape loading issues are incredibly frustrating - I know from back in the day, when I never really got tapes to work on any regular basis.

Personally, I'd suspect the tape unit, rather than the Beeb, which was generally noted as having a reliable tape interface. Certainly, I'm using a different tape deck now, and tape seems like it could actually be vaguely usable - I encountered no difficulties loading tapes on my Electron (...or Spectrum or Dragon for that matter).

The Commodore likely benefits from the Datasette being a dedicated device. It's still internally a cheap tape deck, however, most users would have purchased a new one and then only used have used it for their computer. By comparison, the one I had all my problems with was second hand, and, for many years, my only tape recorder, so I used it for, well, everything.

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Re: GALLERY: Do you back up your tapes to WAV?

Post by Commie_User » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:48 pm

I wouldn't say frustrating, I'm just doing something the creators never intended today. By themselves, I wouldn't say anything was to blame. They all work in normal contexts. Even converting from CSW.

The Commodore decks were incredibly cheap - in build - but even that was enough with the clever data system used. And with the BBC, even fairly worn tapes on weary tape decks load just fine. Even if, to hear them through the speaker, you wouldn't think so.

I've had my problems too, with bad tape, misaligned heads or too knackered a system. But overall, I'd say the tape loading system from cassette worked way better than it should have.

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