Unfinished Text Adventures

discuss classic text/graphic adventures for the bbc micro & electron
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lurkio
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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by lurkio » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:59 pm

iamaran wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:56 pm
Thanks Lurkio. I'll have a look tomorrow.
I've updated my previous post with links to a Master-only disc version of AC which I just created by hacking the tape version. I reckon this is what the author of Gobal did in order to create the game originally.

:idea:

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by iamaran » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:15 pm

Above and beyond! Thanks Lurkio!

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by iamaran » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:31 pm

So, if I remember my GAC correctly...

Code: Select all

1    LF RESE ( 12 ) 0 CSET 12 STRE ( 180 ) 10 CSET 1 10 CSET 2 10 CSET 3 50 CSET 6 5 CSET 7 IF ( NO1 <= 3 AND VERB ( 5 ) AND ADVE ( NO1 ) AND HERE ( NO1 ) ) GET ( NO1 ) CTR ( 0 ) + CTR ( NO1 ) CSET 0 MESS ( 32 ) OBJ ( NO1 ) WAIT END 
STRE ( 180 ) means I can carry 180 weight of items.

I'm carrying:

Code: Select all

No.  Wt.  Start Description
1    25   69   a gold key
2    25   39   a silver key
3    25   16   a bronze key
and want to take:

Code: Select all

No.  Wt.  Start Description
6    50   69   the Gobal
but get the message:

Code: Select all

248  You're carrying too much to pick that up.
gobal.png
gobal.png (28.78 KiB) Viewed 727 times

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lurkio
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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by lurkio » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:52 am

I think you'll have to post the walkthrough!

:idea:

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by iamaran » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:47 am

lurkio wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:52 am
I think you'll have to post the walkthrough!

:idea:
Attached. Thanks.
Attachments
Quest_Gobal_Solution.txt
(1.09 KiB) Downloaded 8 times

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lurkio
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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by lurkio » Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:34 pm

iamaran wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:47 am
lurkio wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:52 am
I think you'll have to post the walkthrough!
Attached. Thanks.
The problem might be due to a bug.

I took the Gobal game data file (called "Gdata" below) off the .SSD and ran it through grackle, and it worked!: I was able to complete the game with a full score, 100 out of 100.

Here's a transcript of the grackle run -- unfortunately, all the commands in my walkthrough are bunched up at the beginning of the transcript because my Mac seems to buffer them when you paste them into Terminal, but it's not too big a deal:

Code: Select all

$ ./grackle Gdata 
Type: 4
Reading dictionary
Reading verbs: 14
Reading nouns: b5
Reading adverbs: 108
Reading objects
Reading rooms: 1fe
Reading messages: 24ca
Reading high priority conditions
Reading low priority conditions: 2036
Reading room conditions: 1a5d
Reading start room
Type HELP to list all verbs.             You remember back to when Steven Mc-Craig met you in the cafe just near space-port Beta. He told you that you must recover the lost crystal of supreme power called the Gobal.

It's hidden somewhere on the continent of Falconia. When you have found it you must return it to the good wizard called Zandon at Rock Bay, to the south of Falconia. A small boat takes you to Falconia, you look back and see it leave. Now it's up to you...

You are in the port in the north-east corner of Meton. You are interested by the noise of seagulls overhead. You can go west to a village street.

? W
W
W
S
E
S
E
N
EXAMINE STONE
GET BAG
S
W
W
W
TALK MAN
GIVE BAG
ENTER VEHICLE
EXAMINE VEHICLE
EXAMINE DASHBOARD
PRESS START
E
E
S
W
W
GET BRONZE KEY
S
E
E
E
E
UNLOCK GATE
S
EXIT VEHICLE
S
GET LETTER
READ LETTER
W
W
W
W
GET TORCH
E
S
S
DIG
EXAMINE CHEST
S
E
E
E
GET BREAD
W
S
S
W
GET GOGGLES
W
GIVE BREAD
TALK MAN
E
E
N
N
W
N
E
WEAR GOGGLES
LIGHT TORCH
D
D
D
GET SILVER KEY
U
U
U
DROP GOGGLES
DROP TORCH
W
S
S
S
TALK WOMAN
S
W
W
D
EXAMINE WELL
TURN HANDLE
EXAMINE BUCKET
GET GOLD KEY
U
E
E
N
N
W
N
N
UNLOCK CHEST
EXAMINE CHEST
GET GOBAL
E
S
S
S
S
E
E
EXAMINE LEFT MAN
EXAMINE MIDDLE MAN
EXAMINE RIGHT MAN
GIVE GOBAL TO MIDDLE MAN
You are travelling along a cobbled street in Meton. East you see a port and west you see some shops.


? You are at some shops but you can't enter any of them as they have been barred up ever since the 'goblin Revolution'. East you see a street and west a corner.


? You are at a corner. East you see some shops and south, a market.


? You are at market. Today it isn't market day as it's the Orc's sabbath day. You see a corner east, west and north.


? You are at a corner you can go west to a market and south to a junction.


? You are at junction, you can see a junction to the east, a road to the west, a corner to the north and a marsh to the south.You can also see a sign


? You are at a junction. South you see an electric fence, a corner to the east and north, and you see another junction west.


? You are at a corner. You can go east to a corner and south to a junction.You can also see a stone


? 
You look at the stone more carefully and you see a bag hidden underneath.

? 
You take a bag


? You are at a junction. South you see an electric fence, a corner to the east and north, and you see another junction west.


? You are at junction, you can see a junction to the east, a road to the west, a corner to the north and a marsh to the south.You can also see a sign


? You are in a road to the south of Meton. You see a corner west, a junction east and an electric fence south.


? You are at a corner. South you see an electric fence and beyond that a marsh,east you see a road and north you see a corner.


You see a man standing here next to a cloth cover. The cloth is covering something very big.

? 
The man says, "my name is Allansia Stubb, under this cover is an anti-gravity vehicle. I'm in debt with Governer Morgan and need to pay him quickly. I will accept twenty five gold pieces for this vehicle."

You see a man standing here next to a cloth cover. The cloth is covering something very big.

? 
You give away a bag


The man takes the gold pieces and removes the cover revealing an anti-gravity vehicle. He then runs away to a nearby house and calls, "abandon the craft when you reach the other side!" He then locks the door.

? 
Okay!


You are in the anti-gravity vehicle. It is positioned a few inches above the ground.


? 
You examine the vehicle. It looks nice and cosy on the inside. You particularly notice the dashboard.

You are in the anti-gravity vehicle. It is positioned a few inches above the ground.


? 
Looking at the dashboard you can see a red button with the word 'START' marked underneath.

You are in the anti-gravity vehicle. It is positioned a few inches above the ground.


? 
The button flashes and the engine starts to purr. The anti-gravity vehicle is ready to drive.

You are driving the anti-gravity. It skims along a few inches from the ground.


? You are in a road to the south of Meton. You see a corner west, a junction east and an electric fence south.


You are driving the anti-gravity. It skims along a few inches from the ground.


? You are at junction, you can see a junction to the east, a road to the west, a corner to the north and a marsh to the south.You can also see a sign


You are driving the anti-gravity. It skims along a few inches from the ground.


? As you go southwards an aura seems to be present behind you. You look round and see your exit north blocked by an electric fence.

You are travelling through a marsh. You see marshland to your south, east and west. You also see an electric fence to your north.


You are driving the anti-gravity. It skims along a few inches from the ground.


? You are in the marshland. You see little creatures moving below the surface of the marsh. Exits lead north to an electric fence and south, east and west to more marshland.


You are driving the anti-gravity. It skims along a few inches from the ground.


? You are at the north-west corner of the marsh. You can see an electric fence to your north and marshland to your east and south.You can also see a bronze key


You are driving the anti-gravity. It skims along a few inches from the ground.


? 
You take a bronze key


You are driving the anti-gravity. It skims along a few inches from the ground.


? You are in the south-west corner of the marsh. You can go north and east to marshland, you also see an electric fence to your south.


You are driving the anti-gravity. It skims along a few inches from the ground.


? You are travelling through the marsh. You notice little weeds growing out of the ground. You see an electric fence to your south and marshland to your north, east and west.


You are driving the anti-gravity. It skims along a few inches from the ground.


? You are travelling through marshland. You can see ripples in the more watery bits of the marsh caused by the anti-gravity vehicle. An electric fence is south of you and you see more marshland to your north, east and west.


You are driving the anti-gravity. It skims along a few inches from the ground.


? You are travelling through the greenish coloured marsh. You see an electric fence to your south and more marshland to your north, east and west.


You are driving the anti-gravity. It skims along a few inches from the ground.


? You are in the south-east corner of the marsh. You can go north and west to more marshland. You can also see a bronze gate to the south


You are driving the anti-gravity. It skims along a few inches from the ground.


? 
You unlock the bronze gate. You can now go south.

You are driving the anti-gravity. It skims along a few inches from the ground.


? As you go southwards an aura seems to be present behind you. You look round and see your exit north blocked by an electric fence.

You are at the bottom of a small hill. North you can see an electric fence and you can see more of the hill to your south and west.


You are driving the anti-gravity. It skims along a few inches from the ground.


? 
As soon as you exit the anti-gravity vehicle a strange glow seems to radiate from inside. Suddenly the whole vehicle melts into the ground. The anti-gravity vehicle has gone.

? You are high up in the hills. You can see for miles. You look back and see the port at Meton and remember your journey from there. You see more hills north and west. South you see an electric fence.You can also see a letter


? 
You take a letter


? 
You read the letter,"dear friend, I glad you found this note. This is a warning to you. If you meet Shelia Wander, watch out as she may be dangerous and she will lie to you. Thanks again, Steven."

? You are on the low part of a hill. North and east you see more hills. West you see the town of Steron. South you see an electric fence.


? You are on the outskirts of Steron. South you see an electric fence. West you see the inner suburbs and east you see some low hills.


? You are walking through the inner suburbs of Steron. You can go east or west to more of Steron. South you can see a desert.


? You are in the dangerous central area of Steron. South you see an electric fence. You see more of Steron north and east.You can also see a torch


? 
You take a torch


? You are walking through the inner suburbs of Steron. You can go east or west to more of Steron. South you can see a desert.


? You are in a desert area. To you north you can see the town of Steron. You see more desert to your south, east and west.


? You are in the central part of the desert. You look up to see the two hot suns blazing down on you. You can see desert to the north, south, east and west. The sand looks like it has been disturbed here.


? 
You dig up a chest.

? 
The chest is locked. It has three key-holes. One gold, one silver, one bronze.

? You are at the southern edge of the desert. The desert merges with the grass and is a lot greener. You can see more desert north and west. There is grassland to your south and east.


? You are in grassland. The grass just about reaches your knees. There is desert to your north and your west. You can see more grassland to your south and east.


? You are wandering through grassland. You are interested by some wild flowers that you have never seen before. You can go south to a river or west to grassland. To your east you see grassland and Telor.


? You walking through grassland. To your east you see the gate leading to the town of Telor but your entry is blocked by an electric fence. West you see grassland.You can also see a loaf of bread


? 
You take a loaf of bread


? You are wandering through grassland. You are interested by some wild flowers that you have never seen before. You can go south to a river or west to grassland. To your east you see grassland and Telor.


? You are wading through a river. The water only comes up to your knees. You can go east downstream towards the Kozaky Ocean or you may follow the river upstream where it twists south. There is also grassland to your north and west.


? You are wading through a river. The water level is just below your knees. Your feet get cold and send a shiver up your spine. You can go north to the river, west to a bridge over the river or east and south to some grassland.


? You are under an old stone bridge. The outside sounds are muffled by the bridge. The water only comes up to your ankles. You can west to the source of the river or east to more of the river.You can also see a pair of goggles


? 
You take a pair of goggles


? You are at the source of the river leading to the Kozaky Ocean. You are standing in water, all around you is grassland. You can see a bridge to your east.


There is a very weak man lying on the ground here. He seems to be begging to you.

? 
You give away a loaf of bread


The man grabs the bread and quickly gobbles it down as fast as he can. He seems happy but still looks very hungry.

There is a very weak man lying on the ground here.

? 
The man is still very weak, "thank you for the bread," he says. "my name is Claudius Zimmer. The man you seek at the end of your quest has a scar on his right hand."

There is a very weak man lying on the ground here.

? 
As you leave the man, he begins to cough. You look back and see him close his eyes. He is dead. He must of been even weaker than he looked.

You are under an old stone bridge. The outside sounds are muffled by the bridge. The water only comes up to your ankles. You can west to the source of the river or east to more of the river.


? You are wading through a river. The water level is just below your knees. Your feet get cold and send a shiver up your spine. You can go north to the river, west to a bridge over the river or east and south to some grassland.


? You are wading through a river. The water only comes up to your knees. You can go east downstream towards the Kozaky Ocean or you may follow the river upstream where it twists south. There is also grassland to your north and west.


? You are wandering through grassland. You are interested by some wild flowers that you have never seen before. You can go south to a river or west to grassland. To your east you see grassland and Telor.


? You are in grassland. The grass just about reaches your knees. There is desert to your north and your west. You can see more grassland to your south and east.


? You are on the edge of the desert. You see more desert to your north and west.South you see the desert turn to grassland and you see a lake to your east.


? You are on the surface of a lake. You can go down into the lake or west to the edge of a desert.


? 
Okay!


? 
Okay!


? You are just below the surface of the lake. You can go down to more of the lake or up to the surface.


a letter
 is destroyed in the water.

? You are swimming in a lake. At this depth there is a great water pressure on your body. You may go down to an underwater cove or up nearer the surface.


? You are swimming inside an underwater cove in the deepest part of the lake. Your only exit is up.You can also see a silver key


? 
You take a silver key


? You are swimming in a lake. At this depth there is a great water pressure on your body. You may go down to an underwater cove or up nearer the surface.


? You are just below the surface of the lake. You can go down to more of the lake or up to the surface.


? You are on the surface of a lake. You can go down into the lake or west to the edge of a desert.


? 
You drop a pair of goggles


? 
You drop a torch


? You are on the edge of the desert. You see more desert to your north and west.South you see the desert turn to grassland and you see a lake to your east.


? You are in grassland. The grass just about reaches your knees. There is desert to your north and your west. You can see more grassland to your south and east.


? You are wandering through grassland. You can go north or west to grassland. You can also go east to a river. There is a stone bridge crossing over a river to your south.


? You are on an old stone bridge crossing over a river. You like the sound of the water trickling under the bridge. You can go north to grassland or south to a forest.


You can see a very beautiful woman here. She is leaning against the side of the bridge.

? 
She says, "my name is Shelia Wander. I have knowledge of you. You are on the Gobal quest. Well, I know you seek the good wizard at Rock Bay."she pauses,"zandon does not carry a magic wand and has a blue tattoo on his arm."

You can see a very beautiful woman here. She is leaning against the side of the bridge.

? You are at the east edge of some woodland. This part of Falconia seems to very cold and begin to shiver. You can go north to a bridge which crosses a river or west to a deeper part of the wood or east to some grassland.


? You are in a deep part of the wood. It begins to get very dark but you can just about see. You can go east or west, both of which lead to the edge of the wood.


? You are at the edge of some woodland. The wind seems to get stronger and your hear it whistle through the leaves. You can go east to a deeper part of the wood or down into a valley.


? You are in a valley clearing. The surrounding area is mostly woodland. Your only exit is up to some woodland.You can also see an old stone well


? 
The well is old and made of stone. You see the well has a handle on the side of it.

? 
You wind the handle and a bucket comes up from the darkness of the well.

? 
The bucket is old made of wood and looks like it will soon fall apart.

On closer examination of the bucket you find a gold key at the bottom.

? 
You take a gold key


? You are at the edge of some woodland. The wind seems to get stronger and your hear it whistle through the leaves. You can go east to a deeper part of the wood or down into a valley.


? You are in a deep part of the wood. It begins to get very dark but you can just about see. You can go east or west, both of which lead to the edge of the wood.


? You are at the east edge of some woodland. This part of Falconia seems to very cold and begin to shiver. You can go north to a bridge which crosses a river or west to a deeper part of the wood or east to some grassland.


? You are on an old stone bridge crossing over a river. You like the sound of the water trickling under the bridge. You can go north to grassland or south to a forest.


You can see a very beautiful woman here. She is leaning against the side of the bridge.

? You are wandering through grassland. You can go north or west to grassland. You can also go east to a river. There is a stone bridge crossing over a river to your south.


? You are walking through grassland observing the flying insects about you.You can go east or west to grassland and north to desert.


? You are at the southern edge of the desert. The desert merges with the grass and is a lot greener. You can see more desert north and west. There is grassland to your south and east.


? You are in the central part of the desert. You look up to see the two hot suns blazing down on you. You can see desert to the north, south, east and west. The sand looks like it has been disturbed here.You can also see a chest


? 
You unlock the chest and the lid opens.

? 
The chest is open. It has three key-holes. One gold, one silver, one bronze.

You look inside and you can see a sparkling crystal. It is the Gobal.

? 
You take the Gobal


? You are on the edge of the desert. You see more desert to your north and west.South you see the desert turn to grassland and you see a lake to your east.


? You are in grassland. The grass just about reaches your knees. There is desert to your north and your west. You can see more grassland to your south and east.


? You are wandering through grassland. You can go north or west to grassland. You can also go east to a river. There is a stone bridge crossing over a river to your south.


? You are on an old stone bridge crossing over a river. You like the sound of the water trickling under the bridge. You can go north to grassland or south to a forest.


You can see a very beautiful woman here. She is leaning against the side of the bridge.

? You are at the east edge of some woodland. This part of Falconia seems to very cold and begin to shiver. You can go north to a bridge which crosses a river or west to a deeper part of the wood or east to some grassland.


? You are on some grassland by a river. You are tiring after your journey so far, but you know that you must continue. You can go north to a river or west to some woodland. To your east you see Rock Bay.


? You are at Rock Bay. Looking around most of the lanscape is desolate rock. Under your feet is a beach. The sea gently washes against the sandy shore. You can go east to the sea or west to some grassland.


There are three men here. One on the left of you, one on the right and one in the middle.

? 
The man on the left looks quite muscular. He has a red tattoo half way up his arm and carries a small stick. In his belt is a blaster.

There are three men here. One on the left of you, one on the right and one in the middle.

? 
The man in the middle is quite well built. He has a scar on his right hand and a red tattoo half way up his arm. He carries a small stick and a dagger.

There are three men here. One on the left of you, one on the right and one in the middle.

? 
The man on the right is quite small, he has a scar on his right hand. He has a blue tattoo half way up his arm and carries a broadsword.

There are three men here. One on the left of you, one on the right and one in the middle.

? 
You give away the Gobal


The man shakes your hand,"well done adventurer! I am indeed Zandon. Thanks to you Palpalpina is safe again."

Well done you have completed your mission. You are truly a wonderous adventurer and have saved Falconia and the planet of Palpalina. You return to your home you recieve one million gold pieces from Steven at space-port Beta.

"the Quest for the Gobal" was written by Danny James Nicholas (c) Dano Software 1987.

You give away the Gobal


the Gobal
 isn't wanted and is given back to you.
Your score is 100 out of 100 and you have taken 113 turns.
Here's grackle's "decompilation" of the game data file:

Gdata disass.txt
(69.42 KiB) Downloaded 10 times

So it's possible there's a bug in AC that's preventing you from picking up the Gobal when you have all three keys. I tried to test my theory by editing the game data file in AC, but it basically warned me there was very little memory left and then crashed when I tried to playtest my edits! (FWIW, I was trying to increase my STREngth to 500 to see if it made any difference.)

:(
Last edited by lurkio on Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by lurkio » Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:57 pm

lurkio wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:34 pm
I tried to test my theory by editing the game data file in AC, but it basically warned me there was very little memory left and then crashed when I tried to playtest my edits!
However, what I have just been able to do is edit the game in AC and remove some bytes, by deleting the STRE command entirely. The result:

Screenshot 2020-10-22 at 18.54.14.png

:idea:

EDIT: Oh, weird. I edited the game file again and put the STRE command back into Local Condition 1, but at the start of the line. I set the value of STRE to 200. I exported and ran the game, and it worked, letting me pick up the Gobal and all three keys and win with a full score of 100.

Then I edited the game data file in AC yet again and changed the STRE value back to 180 (from 200). Then I exported and ran the game, but this time I wasn't allowed to pick up the Gobal when I was carrying all three keys! So when STRE is 180 the game won't let you hold the Gobal and the three keys at the same time.

:?
Last edited by lurkio on Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:15 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by iamaran » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:15 pm

Thanks for all that. Not sure the game deserves all this effort!

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by lurkio » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:19 pm

iamaran wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:15 pm
Thanks for all that. Not sure the game deserves all this effort!
No, but it's interesting that we might possibly have uncovered a bug in AC!

:?:

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by iamaran » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:28 pm

I think I've found the problem!

If you don't drop the letter before swimming in the lake it is destroyed in the water.
If you do drop it beforehand, you can get the gobal, so it looks like there may be some issue with the "weight" of your inventory if it's destroyed instead of you dropping it.

The attached walkthrough gives a perfect score.

I'll look at look at the code tomorrow.
Attachments
Quest_Gobal_Solution_v2.txt
(742 Bytes) Downloaded 4 times

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by lurkio » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:03 am

Good idea! Well done!

(Believe it or not, I was just wondering if it might be something to do with the code somehow removing an item from your inventory in some sort of "unconventional" way... But you beat me to it!)

:idea:

EDIT: Just having a quick look at the disassembly, I wonder if the culprit is Hi Pri Condition 22? Maybe if you change it to do an explicit DROP of the letter just before moving it TO room zero..?

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by iamaran » Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:17 am

That indeed solves the problem. I wonder whether that's a feature of AC - moving an object to 0 doesn't reduce the weight the player is carrying.

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by lurkio » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:42 pm

iamaran wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:17 am
That indeed solves the problem. I wonder whether that's a feature of AC - moving an object to 0 doesn't reduce the weight the player is carrying.
Bug or feature? You decide! My hunch is that it was an oversight because I don't see how it's useful. Why would you ever want to remove an item from the player's inventory but not reduce the weight carried?!

Btw, I notice there are more instances of TO-without-DROP in the game code. I wonder if they all need DROP adding?

:?:

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by iamaran » Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:51 pm

The bread should also be destroyed in the lake, but interestingly I can get the global if I let that happen.

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by lurkio » Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:11 pm

iamaran wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:51 pm
The bread should also be destroyed in the lake, but interestingly I can get the global if I let that happen.
Doesn't make sense! Inconsistent behaviour from AC? Madness!

:idea:

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by iamaran » Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:46 pm

I freed up some memory by reducing the room descriptions to single words and resaved it. It works fine. So I think that the MOVE TO 0 problem has been introduced by having a larger than standard data file.

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by lurkio » Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:19 pm

iamaran wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:46 pm
I freed up some memory by reducing the room descriptions to single words and resaved it. It works fine. So I think that the MOVE TO 0 problem has been introduced by having a larger than standard data file.
Very strange! I've put a bug-warning on the download page on bbcmicro.co.uk, and I'm inclined to leave it at that because I don't think it's worth trying to fix this bug: AC's behaviour seems to be so unpredictable that we can't be sure that fixing this bug won't inadvertently create new bugs somewhere else in the game!

http://bbcmicro.co.uk/game.php?id=2196

:idea:

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by iamaran » Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:02 am

lurkio wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:19 pm

Very strange! I've put a bug-warning on the download page on bbcmicro.co.uk, and I'm inclined to leave it at that because I don't think it's worth trying to fix this bug: AC's behaviour seems to be so unpredictable that we can't be sure that fixing this bug won't inadvertently create new bugs somewhere else in the game!

http://bbcmicro.co.uk/game.php?id=2196

:idea:
Noted. Thank you for your help with this.

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by lurkio » Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:38 am

iamaran wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:02 am
Noted. Thank you for your help with this.
Thank you for playtesting and debugging this game!

:idea:

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by lurkio » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:16 am

lurkio wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:31 pm
For games without any known solutions at all, try searching for games without solutions, using CASA's advanced search:
I think Demon Knight is another game that should be considered unsolved on the Beeb because CASA's solution doesn't seem to work in the Beeb version.

:?:

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by iamaran » Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:39 pm

lurkio wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:16 am
I think Demon Knight is another game that should be considered unsolved on the Beeb because CASA's solution doesn't seem to work in the Beeb version.

:?:
When you water the garden, the response is "everything is growing" but no tree grows for you to climb later. The previously created puny shoot should grow into a tree, so I'd say this is a bug in the beeb version and not an incorrect solution per se.

Edit: Water the shoot. The game is now completable.

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by lurkio » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:01 pm

iamaran wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:39 pm
Water the shoot. The game is now completable.
Thank you!

=D> =D> =D>

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by Commodore » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:22 am

iamaran wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:31 pm
So, if I remember my GAC correctly.
Even the GAC manual doesn't remember GAC correctly.... :lol:

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by Commodore » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:25 am

lurkio wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:19 pm
iamaran wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:46 pm
I freed up some memory by reducing the room descriptions to single words and resaved it. It works fine. So I think that the MOVE TO 0 problem has been introduced by having a larger than standard data file.
Very strange! I've put a bug-warning on the download page on bbcmicro.co.uk, and I'm inclined to leave it at that because I don't think it's worth trying to fix this bug: AC's behaviour seems to be so unpredictable that we can't be sure that fixing this bug won't inadvertently create new bugs somewhere else in the game!

http://bbcmicro.co.uk/game.php?id=2196

:idea:
So, we now know that GAC is buggy, AC is buggy. Is the Quill any better? Are there any other options? BASIC doesn't count!

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by lurkio » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:36 am

Commodore wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:25 am
we now know that GAC is buggy
Not quite. What we know is that there was a typo in the GAC manual. (I presume you're referring to the "r IN o" issue.)

Commodore wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:25 am
AC is buggy.
Not quite. What we know is that the version of AC that was hacked by the author of Gobal (and recently reconstructed by me), in order to make it run off disc on a Master, behaves unpredictably with Gobal's game database, which is very large.

We don't know of any bugs in the official (unhacked) release of AC, which doesn't allow you to create such large games in the first place when it's running on a standard Elk or Model B, which are the machines it was designed for.

:idea:

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by Commodore » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:27 am

lurkio wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:36 am
Commodore wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:25 am
we now know that GAC is buggy
Not quite. What we know is that there was a typo in the GAC manual. (I presume you're referring to the "r IN o" issue.)

Commodore wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:25 am
AC is buggy.
Not quite. What we know is that the version of AC that was hacked by the author of Gobal (and recently reconstructed by me), in order to make it run off disc on a Master, behaves unpredictably with Gobal's game database, which is very large.

We don't know of any bugs in the official (unhacked) release of AC, which doesn't allow you to create such large games in the first place when it's running on a standard Elk or Model B, which are the machines it was designed for.

:idea:
Well if they don't work as per the manual, then it's a bug as far as I'm concerned.

The question remains, is Quill any more reliable?

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by lurkio » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:47 am

Commodore wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:27 am
Well if they don't work as per the manual, then it's a bug as far as I'm concerned.
In GAC or AC, if you want to check whether object o is in room r, then the syntax to use is r IN o. It works reliably.

See the following post, which contains updated manuals for GAC and AC, with corrections for all known typos:

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=4878#p181239

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by Commodore » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:17 pm

Thanks Lurkio, I'll take a look when I get a chance.

In my book this is both a typo and a bug. I think most people would agree that r implies room, and o implies object, so surely the logic of the syntax is the wrong way round?

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by lurkio » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:20 pm

Commodore wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:17 pm
In my book this is both a typo and a bug. I think most people would agree that r implies room, and o implies object
That's exactly what I said in my previous post:
lurkio wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:47 am
object o is in room r

Commodore wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:17 pm
surely the logic of the syntax is the wrong way round?
It's all explained on the last page of the updated GAC manual, which I linked to in my previous post.

But the point is that you keep bringing up the issue of reliability. What I'm saying to you is that the syntax r IN o works reliably. It has a defined meaning which is specified in the updated manual. And it always works in that way -- the way that the updated manual sets out. So if you use the syntax, as specified in the updated manual, it will work with 100% reliability.

:idea:

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Re: Unfinished Text Adventures

Post by Commodore » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:30 pm

Yes, I get that. It only works reliably because somebody (you) worked it out 35 years later.
That can't really be considered reliable, even if it does work when you type something that is the opposite of what the manual says.
I wonder how many other people had difficulty with adventures because of this problem.
I suppose years ago people would have contacted the publisher who maybe could have advised them.

I think I mentioned reliability once.
Anyway, moving on...

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