Cholo challenges

discuss classic text/graphic adventures for the bbc micro & electron
Post Reply
johnfneal
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:01 pm
Contact:

Cholo challenges

Post by johnfneal » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:38 am

<t>Has anyone managed to play Cholo successfully on a BBC B actual computer (not simulator) with save & load positions working, and game not crashing when one attemps to go outdoors? If so, what software version<br/>
.ssd download, DFS file system etc., & any fixes used? I have tried many of each & always get the above issues. John</t>

User avatar
jms2
Posts: 2624
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:38 am
Location: Derby, UK
Contact:

Re: Cholo challenges

Post by jms2 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:14 pm

Cholo is one of those games which has a great reputation, but I don't know how to play it beyond an exploratory "pressing keys at random to see what happens" exercise.

However I can see that the full instructions are on the web, so I'll give it a proper go. There is only one version on Stairway to Hell, so that's the one I will try!

User avatar
billcarr2005
Posts: 1551
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Cholo challenges

Post by billcarr2005 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:52 pm

Could you try this?
Created from the original disk, just had to change a couple of filenames to make them Watford DFS compatible and some filenames also had the high bit set and there were control codes to prevent *CAT, otherwise untouched!
Attachments
CHOLO.zip
(33.44 KiB) Downloaded 7 times

User avatar
jms2
Posts: 2624
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:38 am
Location: Derby, UK
Contact:

Re: Cholo challenges

Post by jms2 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:36 am

I just tried the version off Stairway to Hell (ie, not Bill Carr's version attached here) and it seemed to work fine. Having said that, I didn't try saving or loading so I'll need to go back and give that a go. This was using a Master Compact (I don't think that's relevant), Acorn DFS and Gotek.

It didn't crash when I went outside. I got further than I have ever got before with this game, which was:

- Found the computer
- Downloaded the password file
- Captured the Hacker robot
- Used that to get the Radar program.

At this point I stopped, because although the manual describes the radar as being very useful, all I could see was a load of meaningless blobs! This put me off progressing further.

Whilst it's clearly a clever game, the graphics are a serious problem in my view. There's no hidden line removal, which means you can see buildings "through" other buildings, which is very confusing. Bizarrely, it also has the opposite problem, which is that you can be standing relatively close to something but it doesn't get rendered (unless you get even closer).

I'm willing to give the game the benefit of the doubt though, but can anyone explain what the radar actually does?

User avatar
melchett
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:52 am
Contact:

Re: Cholo challenges

Post by melchett » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:05 pm

I won Cholo via C&VG competition way back then... I loved the idea of it but was frustrated by the limited viewing range indoors and, as jms states, the see through lines. I didn't get far with it but will try again based on this forum entry reprise.

What I would recommend though is playing the Ovine By Design Cholo remake - it's stunning and pretty true to the original. Still works on Windows 10 too and there's a video of gameplay on YouTube.

From memory, the radar shows your position on the map when switched on.

VectorEyes
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Cholo challenges

Post by VectorEyes » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:03 pm

Weird, I actually enjoyed Cholo. I played it quite a bit on the Beeb, and completed it under emulation on the CPC.

It really, really helps to have read through the manual, I think... and understood how the city is divided into zones, and that robots won't follow you outside of their zone and will disappear / be reset when you leave and come back.

User avatar
jms2
Posts: 2624
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:38 am
Location: Derby, UK
Contact:

Re: Cholo challenges

Post by jms2 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:11 pm

Yes I also found the Ovine remake. The graphics are really good and as you say it is more or less the same gameplay. The only slight disadvantage is that user-interface type things that I knew how to operate on the BBC version seem a bit less obvious - but then I only played it for a few minutes.

johnfneal
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Cholo challenges

Post by johnfneal » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:15 pm

billcarr2005 wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:52 pm
Could you try this?
Created from the original disk, just had to change a couple of filenames to make them Watford DFS compatible and some filenames also had the high bit set and there were control codes to prevent *CAT, otherwise untouched!
Thanks for your file! I unzipped it to my GoTek drive as Drive 0, & tried it.. Unfortunately, gives me the same result: disc error when saving, and 'bad sum' message when I try to go out of the building. I am using an original BBC B with Watford DFS upgrade, although currently using Acorn 1770 DFS. Before I had tried several different .ssd versions including Stairway To Hell, using Watford DFS always with the same result. What configuration are you using to get your success?

SteveF
Posts: 640
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:34 pm
Contact:

Re: Cholo challenges

Post by SteveF » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:26 pm

johnfneal wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:15 pm
I am using an original BBC B with Watford DFS upgrade, although currently using Acorn 1770 DFS.
I doubt it's relevant, but FWIW: BITD I had Watford DFS 1.30 (for the 8271) in my BBC B and Cholo wouldn't run with it. I had to load Acorn DFS (probably 0.9, maybe 1.2) into sideways RAM and use that to get it to work. If you're trying Acorn 1770 DFS and it's still not working it's probably something else at fault.

I certainly used to save and load the game BITD and it worked fine. I really enjoyed it, though I must admit (stupidly?) I pretty much followed a walkthrough from one of the magazines the instant I got the game.

User avatar
scarybeasts
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:44 am
Contact:

Re: Cholo challenges

Post by scarybeasts » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:58 pm

johnfneal wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:15 pm
Thanks for your file! I unzipped it to my GoTek drive as Drive 0,
Given that you have a Gotek as drive 0, you can try original disc images to see if that helps.

I've attached an HFE recently captured from an original Cholo disc using discbeast. (Unzip it before sticking it on the Gotek.)

You mention both Watford and Acorn DFS. If both ROMS are installed, make sure PAGE is still &1900. If it's not, a lot of games will give trouble. What version of Acorn DFS are you using? Any other ROMS installed?


Cheers
Chris
Attachments
Cholo_D1S1_40T_HG3_D457519F_1.hfe.zip
(74.1 KiB) Downloaded 6 times

User avatar
billcarr2005
Posts: 1551
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Cholo challenges

Post by billcarr2005 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:01 pm

Watford DFS 1.30 baulks at the original disk because there is a filename m.JAR, with high bit set but it's *LOADed as M.JAR, which isn't the same file :)

johnfneal
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Cholo challenges

Post by johnfneal » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:39 am

scarybeasts wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:58 pm
johnfneal wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:15 pm
Thanks for your file! I unzipped it to my GoTek drive as Drive 0,
Given that you have a Gotek as drive 0, you can try original disc images to see if that helps.

I've attached an HFE recently captured from an original Cholo disc using discbeast. (Unzip it before sticking it on the Gotek.)

You mention both Watford and Acorn DFS. If both ROMS are installed, make sure PAGE is still &1900. If it's not, a lot of games will give trouble. What version of Acorn DFS are you using? Any other ROMS installed?


Cheers
Chris
Thanks Chris for file! Unzipped into GoTek as Drive 0 and with Acorn 1770 DFS shift Breaked: Loaded ok but unfortunately produces same issues. On leaving buiding 'bad sum' error, and disc error on attempting load or save. With Watford DDFS 1.54T will not load game, just scans disc. If Page changed to &1900 and *EXEC !BOOTed, gives red/blue flashing error screen!

So I can investigate myself further, does anyone know what mechanism Cholo uses to pick up a new file from disc when going into different zones eg. outside building, & how load & save is attempted to/from a user disc?

User avatar
scarybeasts
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:44 am
Contact:

Re: Cholo challenges

Post by scarybeasts » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:50 am

johnfneal wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:39 am
scarybeasts wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:58 pm
johnfneal wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:15 pm
Thanks for your file! I unzipped it to my GoTek drive as Drive 0,
Given that you have a Gotek as drive 0, you can try original disc images to see if that helps.

I've attached an HFE recently captured from an original Cholo disc using discbeast. (Unzip it before sticking it on the Gotek.)

You mention both Watford and Acorn DFS. If both ROMS are installed, make sure PAGE is still &1900. If it's not, a lot of games will give trouble. What version of Acorn DFS are you using? Any other ROMS installed?


Cheers
Chris
Thanks Chris for file! Unzipped into GoTek as Drive 0 and with Acorn 1770 DFS shift Breaked: Loaded ok but unfortunately produces same issues. On leaving buiding 'bad sum' error, and disc error on attempting load or save. With Watford DDFS 1.54T will not load game, just scans disc. If Page changed to &1900 and *EXEC !BOOTed, gives red/blue flashing error screen!
"Page changed" --> does this mean your system's default PAGE is something else? What does PRINT ~PAGE give?


Cheers
Chris

User avatar
jms2
Posts: 2624
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:38 am
Location: Derby, UK
Contact:

Re: Cholo challenges

Post by jms2 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:54 am

Chris is right - this is almost certainly to do with other roms making PAGE higher. Have you got ADFS for example?

Unfortunately on a Model B switching off roms is not that easy.

johnfneal
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Cholo challenges

Post by johnfneal » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:23 am

Another thought; is my BBC B running any Cholo image in DEMO mode. Any protected software could want to disable load and save plus prevent going to the next level like leaving the building. Any ideas?

User avatar
jms2
Posts: 2624
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:38 am
Location: Derby, UK
Contact:

Re: Cholo challenges

Post by jms2 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:45 pm

.SSD images don't contain any protection, so I don't think that could be the issue.

What do you get when you type

Code: Select all

*HELP
and what do you get from

Code: Select all

PRINT ~PAGE
NB in mode 7 the "~" character will look like a divide symbol.

johnfneal
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Cholo challenges

Post by johnfneal » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:29 am

So with my sideways EEproms, PRINT ~PAGE gave me PAGE of &2300. Physically removing them returned PAGE to &1900. I then re-tried billcarr2005's CHOLO.ZIP image and all works immediately! Saving position, loading position and leaving building all fine. I now need to find by trial & error, which of my EEprom image ROMs are causing PAGE to move and also which Cholo images do and don't work. Many thanks to all for help!

Someone said on another page in this forum that was possible to put a robot in the aircraft and fly across the river without needing to cross the dangerous bridge! I need to investigate..

User avatar
jms2
Posts: 2624
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:38 am
Location: Derby, UK
Contact:

Re: Cholo challenges

Post by jms2 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:39 pm

That's the highest PAGE I have ever seen!

Glad you got it working!

Post Reply

Return to “8-bit acorn software: classic adventure games”