30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

want to contribute an update to the archive? post it here!

Michael Brown
Posts: 2165
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:54 pm
Location: Nottingham
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by Michael Brown » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:53 pm

Post removed.
Last edited by Michael Brown on Tue May 14, 2019 8:06 am, edited 4 times in total.

Michael Brown
Posts: 2165
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:54 pm
Location: Nottingham
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by Michael Brown » Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:27 am

Post removed.
Last edited by Michael Brown on Tue May 14, 2019 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Michael Brown
Posts: 2165
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:54 pm
Location: Nottingham
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by Michael Brown » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:09 pm

Post removed.
Last edited by Michael Brown on Tue May 14, 2019 8:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

Michael Brown
Posts: 2165
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:54 pm
Location: Nottingham
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by Michael Brown » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:03 am

Post removed.
Last edited by Michael Brown on Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

Michael Brown
Posts: 2165
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:54 pm
Location: Nottingham
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by Michael Brown » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:22 pm

Post removed.
Last edited by Michael Brown on Tue May 14, 2019 8:05 am, edited 7 times in total.

User avatar
leenew
Posts: 3982
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:27 pm
Location: Doncaster, Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by leenew » Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:13 pm

I am struggling to keep the website updated here :lol:
... but I have done it anyway :wink:
Lee.

Michael Brown
Posts: 2165
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:54 pm
Location: Nottingham
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by Michael Brown » Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:57 pm

Post removed.
Last edited by Michael Brown on Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Michael Brown
Posts: 2165
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:54 pm
Location: Nottingham
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by Michael Brown » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:51 pm

Created in September 2018... here is Games Disc 126.
Disc126.zip
(142.81 KiB) Downloaded 95 times
The disc is called Disc126.dsd so it can be loaded into a Datacentre on a real BBC without having to rename it.

The 18 games on this disc include...

Scrable from Fast Access (2.02).
Superfruit from Input Magazine (Issue 33).
Four Colours from Computer & Video Games.
Minotaur's Maze from Big K Magazine (Issue 9).
Black Queen from BBC Soft.
Thargoids from The Beebon (Issue 2).
Manage from Cases.
Block Slider (E) from Electron Computing (#4).
Model B Crossword (Cassette 7) from Model B Computing.
Supermarket from COIC Software.
Space Grab (E) from forgotten-grove.
Under The Mortuary from Popular Computing Weekly.
Break-Up (Games Pack 1) by Charles Murton.
Wallaby Wrestling Federation from BBC PD (Games #9).
Yams (Golden Games) from The Micro User.
Hangman from Beebug (1.05).
City Bomber from Acorn Programs (Vol.4).
Quadrix from BBC PD (Games #6).

NOTE: Black Queen requires the disc to be write-enabled to save data to the disc in order to work.
Also, Block Slider and Space Grab are Electron titles that have been amended to work on a BBC Micro.
Lastly, Model B Crossword allows you to save your score/position to disc.

EASTER EGGS: If you press ESCAPE during some of the loaders and instructions, then you can skip to loading the game... This works on Manage and Supermarket.

All original filenames have been kept where possible, but some have been changed where they conflict with the limitations of the Disc Filing System. Copy protection routines have been removed.
This disc has also been checked for *KEY related issues and is OK.

Regards,
Mick.

PS. Disc 127 is coming later in the year!
Last edited by Michael Brown on Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

Michael Brown
Posts: 2165
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:54 pm
Location: Nottingham
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by Michael Brown » Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:05 pm

Post removed.
Last edited by Michael Brown on Tue May 14, 2019 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

AndyGarton
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 2:47 pm
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by AndyGarton » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:14 pm

leenew wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:03 pm
This spreadsheet should help you :D

Lee.
Mick Brown's BBC Disc And Tapes.zip
Is there by any chance an up-to-date version of this spreadsheet, or some other way of quickly determining which game is on which disc please?

User avatar
lurkio
Posts: 2187
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:30 pm
Location: Doomawangara
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by lurkio » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:33 pm

AndyGarton wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:14 pm
Is there by any chance an up-to-date version of this spreadsheet, or some other way of quickly determining which game is on which disc please?
This doesn't answer your question but just to say that all the games in Mick's collection are also on bbcmicro.co.uk:
:idea:

AndyGarton
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 2:47 pm
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by AndyGarton » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:44 pm

Thanks, yes I am aware of that site (which is great also), but I prefer the option of loading the DSDs which have multiple games on (I'm using a real Beeb, with DataCentre, and find it a bit more of a hassle to use individual game SSDs which have to be renamed first).

User avatar
lurkio
Posts: 2187
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:30 pm
Location: Doomawangara
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by lurkio » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:21 pm

AndyGarton wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:44 pm
Thanks, yes I am aware of that site (which is great also), but I prefer the option of loading the DSDs which have multiple games on (I'm using a real Beeb, with DataCentre, and find it a bit more of a hassle to use individual game SSDs which have to be renamed first).
viewtopic.php?f=51&p=172808#p172069

:idea:

AndyGarton
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 2:47 pm
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by AndyGarton » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:27 pm

Great, thanks.

AndyGarton
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 2:47 pm
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by AndyGarton » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:45 am

I'm finding most, if not all, DSDs require my (DataCentre) Model B to be in DTRAP mode to even boot the game selection menu - is that a known requirement, or something specific to my configuration? I didn't see it mentioned in the documentation anywhere yet, although did see a note I think that some individual games require it (and are marked I think with a 'D' tag as a result)?

User avatar
lurkio
Posts: 2187
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:30 pm
Location: Doomawangara
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by lurkio » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:19 am

AndyGarton wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:45 am
I'm finding most, if not all, DSDs require my (DataCentre) Model B to be in DTRAP mode to even boot the game selection menu - is that a known requirement, or something specific to my configuration? I didn't see it mentioned in the documentation anywhere yet, although did see a note I think that some individual games require it (and are marked I think with a 'D' tag as a result)?
I didn't think *DTRAP was required for that many of the DSDs. But I personally haven't used many of the DSDs with a DataCentre. Lee has, though, and he'll be able to give a better answer.

What other ROMs have you got installed in your Beeb? What sockets are your ROMs in? (What order?)

:?:

AndyGarton
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 2:47 pm
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by AndyGarton » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:25 am

Thanks - just RetroClinic's two ROMs (including the CombiROM) beyond OS and BASIC. I did find out I had the Econet ROM installed, which I don't need, so as it steals a bit of memory I pulled that (so PAGE is back at 1900, not 1B00 as it was). It doesn't make any difference as far as the DSD menu working is concerned though.

User avatar
lurkio
Posts: 2187
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:30 pm
Location: Doomawangara
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by lurkio » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:08 am

AndyGarton wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:25 am
Thanks - just RetroClinic's two ROMs (including the CombiROM) beyond OS and BASIC
So the two RetroClinic ROMs are RamFS and the CombiROM? I'm not familiar with the CombiROM -- what are its contents? I presume it contains multiple ROM images, possibly including ADFS, which might cause problems. What does *HELP report? What about *ROMS?

In my DC-attached Model B, I've got RamFS by itself, in a separate ROM (actually a ROM-image in flash ROM). Also, I have DFS 1.2 (DNFS) and no ADFSes at all (I think -- I'm not with my Beeb kit at the mo).

:idea:
Last edited by lurkio on Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

AndyGarton
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 2:47 pm
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by AndyGarton » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:16 am

Yes the CombiROM is a multiple - EXMON, BASIC Editor, ADFS Control and NET I think.

User avatar
leenew
Posts: 3982
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:27 pm
Location: Doncaster, Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by leenew » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:31 am

*DTRAP it's not needed to boot any of the discs.
It is only required for the games that write back to the disc drive.
This should be mentioned on the info page of the game on bbcmicro.co.uk (although it is on my to-do list to check them all).
Another pointer is if the game has a (D) at the end of its name on the disc menu.

Lee.

AndyGarton
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 2:47 pm
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by AndyGarton » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:48 am

Strange then, must be something specific to my system - none of the first ten DSD menus will boot for me (they just hang at DFS header) without DTRAP.

User avatar
lurkio
Posts: 2187
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:30 pm
Location: Doomawangara
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by lurkio » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:49 am

AndyGarton wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:16 am
Yes the CombiROM is a multiple - EXMON, BASIC Editor, ADFS Control and NET I think.
Given Lee's reply above, and yours, I suspect that one or more of the various ROMs in your machine is/are interfering with the normal operation of RamFS. That's why you've found that the DSDs all boot with *DTRAP -- because *DTRAP disables all ROMs except RamFS and BASIC, I think.

:idea:
Last edited by lurkio on Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
leenew
Posts: 3982
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:27 pm
Location: Doncaster, Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by leenew » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:30 pm

Yes, I would remove the combo and try again..

Lee

AndyGarton
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 2:47 pm
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by AndyGarton » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:34 pm

I tried that, and it always boots straight to EXMON then, and I can't get out of it! I assume EXMON is on the RAMFS ROM (marked RAMFS 1.0/CombiUtils).

I did just discover something odd though (back with all ROMs fitted I mean), and this is where my current knowledge of the Beeb is no doubt letting me down: I've found that, while Shift Boot doesn't work (hangs at the DFS header) when DTRAP is off, I can just *RUN !BOOT, and get the menu fine. Is this actually how I'm supposed to be running the discs anyway? I naively assumed Shift Boot was the way. Kinda weird though that Shift Boot does work when DTRAP is on?!?

(OPT is set to 2 as you'd expect.)
Last edited by AndyGarton on Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
lurkio
Posts: 2187
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:30 pm
Location: Doomawangara
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by lurkio » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:54 pm

leenew wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:30 pm
Yes, I would remove the combo and try again..
AndyGarton wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:34 pm
I tried that, and it always boots straight to EXMON then, and I can't get out of it! I assume EXMON is on the RAMFS ROM (marked RAMFS 1.0/CombiUtils).
According to this page --
-- the CombiROM contains BASIC, without which your Beeb won't have a proper language ROM to boot into, which isn't good! So unless you have a separate BASIC-only ROM, you're stuck with the CombiROM.

AndyGarton wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:34 pm
I did just discover something odd though (back with all ROMs fitted I mean), and this is where my current knowledge of the Beeb is no doubt letting me down: I've found that, while Shift Boot doesn't work (hangs at the DFS header) when DTRAP is off, I can just *RUN !BOOT, and get the menu fine. Is this actually how I'm supposed to be running the discs anyway? I naively assumed Shift Boot was the way.
Shift-Break is the normal way to boot a disc, whether it's a real physical floppy disc in a real physical floppy disc drive or a virtual RamFS disc in a RAM drive in your DataCentre.

AndyGarton wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:34 pm
Kinda weird though that Shift Boot does work when DTRAP is on?!? (OPT is set to 2 as you'd expect.)
As I said in an earlier reply, one of the many other ROMs installed in your Beeb is probably interfering with the normal operation of RamFS and the DataCentre, including the boot functionality. *DTRAP disables all ROMS except RamFS and BASIC, and thus restores normal Shift-Break booting.

:idea:
Last edited by lurkio on Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AndyGarton
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 2:47 pm
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by AndyGarton » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:08 pm

Yep looks that way - it's actually only Shift Break that doesn't work though, now I've discovered I can just *RUN !BOOT (without needing to toggle DTRAP).

User avatar
lurkio
Posts: 2187
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:30 pm
Location: Doomawangara
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by lurkio » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:09 pm

AndyGarton wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:08 pm
Yep looks that way - it's actually only Shift Break that doesn't work though, now I've discovered I can just *RUN !BOOT (without needing to toggle DTRAP).
Have you tried Shift-R-Break?

:?:

AndyGarton
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 2:47 pm
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by AndyGarton » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:21 pm

I hadn't - have now, and it works, nice one. Do you know why? I know that boots from the RAM disc, but why does nobody else have to do the 'R'?!?

User avatar
vanekp
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2000 7:09 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: 30th Anniversary BBC and Electron Collection

Post by vanekp » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:32 pm

If you look in the manual on page 34 under *cat it gives a reason for that.
http://www.retroclinic.com/acorn/datace ... Manual.pdf

If the image is bootable, as most games are, then <SHIFT><BREAK> or <SHIFT><R><BREAK> if RamFS is not the default
filing system, will allow the image to boot, and run the game.
Peter.

Post Reply