Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

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lurkio
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Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by lurkio » Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:54 pm

Here are some links and supporting documents for Beebugsoft's Sleuth ROM, a debugger for BASIC programs on the BBC Micro Model B and Acorn Electron.
Scan-.jpg
Cover of Sleuth manual
Downloads of images of the Sleuth ROM:
Sleuth v1.05 manual:
Sleuth v1.06 manual:
Sleuth manual errata:
  • Sleuth_manual_errata.jpg
    Errata for the Sleuth manual. Photo nabbed off eBay.
Adverts, an Acorn User review, and a plain-text command summary for Sleuth:
  • Sleuth_misc.zip
    Sleuth: Adverts, Acorn User review, command summary
    (2.27 MiB) Downloaded 133 times
:idea:
Last edited by lurkio on Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by s1paulr » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:09 pm

I used to think that Sleuth was one of the better BASIC debuggers. Attached is the later v1.06 release of Sleuth along with the updated manual.
Attachments
Sleuth 1.06.pdf
(181.44 KiB) Downloaded 117 times
Sleuth-1.06.rom.zip
(6.28 KiB) Downloaded 117 times

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by lurkio » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:16 pm

s1paulr wrote:Attached is the later v1.06 release of Sleuth along with the updated manual.
Aha! The missing version 1.06! Thank you. =D> =D>

Have you got any other rare goodies in your archive? [-o<

:?:

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by s1paulr » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:47 pm

Not as rare as that one. It took me years to find the text for the manual :) I will have a dig around in my archive. Looking for anything specific?

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by lurkio » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:57 pm

s1paulr wrote:I will have a dig around in my archive. Looking for anything specific?
Specifically, the missing parts of The Magic Telephone (eduware)!

But basically anything that hasn't already been archived in the Archive Submissions section on Stardot or bbcmicro.co.uk or 8bs.com or on JGH's site http://mdfs.net would be welcome! E.g. any more toolkit/utility ROMs like Sleuth that haven't already been uploaded. Or any missing manuals.

Please also check the MIA list if you haven't already:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3437&start=90#p140075

:idea:

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by s1paulr » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:43 pm

I do not have any eduware, but I do have a decent collection of utility ROMs. For example, I not sure if it is already archived, but I do have a pdf of the ISMEC monitor ROM manual (an early release, when it was known as the BBC monitor). I have not attached it as it is huge at 9MB (zipped). Unfortunately I do not have the missing utility SW. I will have a dig around to see if I have anything else not available elsewhere.

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by lurkio » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:51 pm

s1paulr wrote:I do have a pdf of the ISMEC monitor ROM manual ... I have not attached it as it is huge at 9MB (zipped).
Check your PMs.

:idea:

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by s1paulr » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:06 pm

Done :)

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by MartinB » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:20 pm

We've had an ISMEC Monitor rom manual hosted over on RS for many years (look in the Classic Development Tools area), is yours different Paul....?

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by s1paulr » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:27 pm

Hi Martin,

I have double checked and indeed, it is the same manual. Sorry for the false alarm :(

Paul

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by jgharston » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:40 pm

SLEUTH uses the following memory areas for its workspace: &A00 to &AFF; .... (this) prevents the ability to load programs from cassette from within SLEUTH.
Why does this canard keep getting propagated? &A00-&AFF is ****NOT**** use by LOAD from tape, it is only used by OPENIN from tape (and rom).

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by MartinB » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:10 pm

Paul wrote:I have double checked and indeed, it is the same manual. Sorry for the false alarm :(
Hey, no worries Paul - always well worth checking to see if a later version has emerged 8)

I guess it's another example of why having the two sites is sub-optimal.... :wink:

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by lurkio » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:15 pm

s1paulr wrote:Attached is the later v1.06 release of Sleuth along with the updated manual.
Could you please re-check your upload of the Sleuth v1.06 ROM image? It crashes in BeebEm and B-em.

:?:

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by s1paulr » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:47 pm

A bit tricky as my Beeb is stored at the moment. I have a few different copies of this ROM, so I have attached another zip with a couple more. I know that at least one of them works as it is installed in my model B. Sorry about that.
Attachments
Sleuth.zip
(12.54 KiB) Downloaded 106 times

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by lurkio » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:09 pm

s1paulr wrote:A bit tricky as my Beeb is stored at the moment. I have a few different copies of this ROM, so I have attached another zip with a couple more. I know that at least one of them works as it is installed in my model B. Sorry about that.
Yeah, I don't have access to any real Beebs at the mo either. :(

All three of the v1.06 ROM images you uploaded are identical binaries. This is what happens when you activate them in BeebEm, B-em or JSBeeb:
:shock:

Compare v1.05 -- this is what I think is supposed to happen:
:idea:

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by MartinB » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:31 pm

My Beeb cellar is always armed and dangerous - just tried both images on real 1770 Beeb hardware and exactly as lurkio has reported with the emulators, 1.05 works fine whereas 1.06 immediately gets stuck in some endless BASIC statement-printing corruption loop.... :?
Last edited by MartinB on Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by lurkio » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:25 am

MartinB wrote:just tried both images on real 1770 Beeb hardware and exactly as lurkio has reported with the emulators, 1.05 works fine, 1.06 immediately gets stuck in some endless BASIC statement-printing corruption loop
Thanks for checking on real hardware, Martin. Looks like a working copy of Sleuth v1.06 is still missing in action then.

Shame because I think 1.06 is the only version that supports Sideways RAM for dual screen mode.

:?:

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by hoglet » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:59 am

In case it's of any interest, here a a version that claims to be version 1.05a
Sleuth105a.zip
(6.14 KiB) Downloaded 124 times
Dave

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by lurkio » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:39 am

hoglet wrote:In case it's of any interest, here a a version that claims to be version 1.05a
Thanks! This works (in BeebEm at least) but it doesn't seem to support SWRAM, so a working v1.06 would still be good to have, at some point!

[-o<

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by MartinB » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:26 pm

One thought, I tested 1.06 in swram but left it writeable - because this version supposedly supports swram, I wonder if it could perhaps be inadvertantly corrupting itself when looking for swram banks? Did you 'write protect' the emulators when testing? I can't re-try with write protect till later in the week because I'm now away for a few days.

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by lurkio » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:01 pm

MartinB wrote:One thought, I tested 1.06 in swram but left it writeable - because this version supposedly supports swram, I wonder if it could perhaps be inadvertantly corrupting itself when looking for swram banks? Did you 'write protect' the emulators when testing?
Yes, I put Sleuth 1.06 in a write-protected ROM slot:
  • Untitled.jpg
    Screenshot
I also tried removing all other ROMs except BASIC, OS1.2 and DNFS. Same crash/loop. :(

:idea:

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by hoglet » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:25 pm

Hi Guys,

Always up for a challenge, I did a bit of debugging of Sleuth 1.06 using ICE-T65, and I think I have managed to get it working.

The problem was very simple in the end: the 8K ROM image needs to be appear twice within the 16K slot (like would happen with a real 8K EPROM)

Here's an 16K ROM image that does that:
Sleuth_1.06.zip
(6.45 KiB) Downloaded 141 times
I think the Dual Screen mode using Sideways RAM is now working.

Dave

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by s1paulr » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:36 pm

Let me know if there are still problems as I have a copy which was made from an original. Paul

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by MartinB » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:00 pm

Well done Dave! If it needs doing, I can try it on a real Beeb probably Thursday evening.... 8)

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by lurkio » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:15 pm

hoglet wrote:I did a bit of debugging of Sleuth 1.06 using ICE-T65, and I think I have managed to get it working. The problem was very simple in the end: the 8K ROM image needs to be appear twice within the 16K slot (like would happen with a real 8K EPROM) Here's an 16K ROM image that does that ... I think the Dual Screen mode using Sideways RAM is now working.
Good work, Dave! Your edited ROM image seems to be working fine, in BeebEm at least.
s1paulr wrote:Let me know if there are still problems as I have a copy which was made from an original.
Please upload it anyway, if you can. We can use it to verify Dave's fix.

:idea:

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by s1paulr » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:31 pm

Unfortunately it is an EPROM copy I made with a blower not a file, so it will take until I dig out the BEEB, which I intend to do soon.

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by Elminster » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:24 am

Same copy of manual as lurkio uploaded BUT it has the Errata page (rather than a photo of it from ebay) and this one is searchable (of sorts).

P.S. Glad I decided to upload as I been wondering why none of my Sleuth ROMs works. Thread explains it all! And I know have Sleuth working for the first time. Hurray. Now I can actually use the thing I have the original manual for.
Attachments
Sleuth_105+Errata-min.pdf
(3.01 MiB) Downloaded 91 times

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Re: Sleuth ROM (1984), Beebugsoft

Post by Andrewcee » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:26 am

Been writing a disk copy prog which copies from anything to anything, at least that's the idea! Will copy by file and/or sectors, auto switches (still to work on byte copy, if its possible?) so as to archive all my 5 1/4 floppies. It has m/c code built in, uses OS calls, switches ram when changing fsys, but for whatever reason it's losing track of integer vars. No idea why. So....

Tried getting Sleuth working on my Beeb fitted with STL 256 4Meg board loaded in SWR. No luck with 1.06 or 1.05. 1.06=hang on calling *Sleuth with control screen, 1.05=promt, hangs on List and pulls in cassette relay. Works on beebem on PC, now I know what it should look like. Could try blowing an eprom? Could try it on my Master, now there's a thought.

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