EPROM Programming Service

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caolan
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EPROM Programming Service

Post by caolan » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:42 am

I'm particularly interested in some of the other Acornsoft languages (lisp, forth, prolog, logo). Does anyone know of an EPROM programming service that I could use to get these loaded onto a Model B? Or perhaps someone with their own EPROM programmer might be able to help out? Buying one for the sake of a few chips seems a bit expensive!

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ukretrogamer
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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by ukretrogamer » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:49 am

You haven't said which micro you intend to test these ROMs with.

If you have a Master (for the cartridge slots), an ABR might be a cheaper solution than an EPROM burner. You could upload ROM images to battery-backup RAM and (if required) lock it, so it becomes read-only, in case of software protection.

If your BBC is equipped with Sideways RAM. there's the UPURS system. With this, you use a single ROM socket along with a User-port cable in combination with a USB-to-Serial adaptor to upload ROMs from a PC/Mac/Linux box in a few seconds.

Where are you located? I, along with a number of members here have EPROM burning facilities and would be willing to help but even if you pay only for EPROMs and postage, it might still work out more expensive (and less flexible) than one of the sideways RAM solutions mentioned above.

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sydney
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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by sydney » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:57 am

I can't help with eproms but you could also consider eeproms as explained in this thread.

EEPROM - the Holy Grail of Sideways Rom?

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thedark
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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by thedark » Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:14 pm

Where ar you from.
i can write eproms have them also
16k.32k.64k,128k,256k.
I can also erase used eproms
but i only do this for dutch people.

Greets
-------------------------------------------------------------
-=[[ Music 5000 Stil Rulez On The Acorn Scene. ]]=-
-------------------------------------------------------------

caolan
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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by caolan » Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:36 pm

This is for a BBC Micro Model B and I'm based in Sheffield, UK

Loading images from PC would probably be more cost effective - but I'm also a little reluctant to include my modern machine in the retro experience. If it's an occasional transfer that is probably OK.

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sydney
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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by sydney » Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:18 pm

With the eeprom solution you would save the rom images to floppy on your beeb and load them in from there too. No need for a modern pc at all.

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1024MAK
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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by 1024MAK » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:11 pm

sydney wrote:With the eeprom solution you would save the rom images to floppy on your beeb and load them in from there too. No need for a modern pc at all.
Well yes, but of course to save the copy of the "ROM" image file on disk in the first place would involve a modern-ish PC.

Before I can give any helpful suggestions, some questions:
Can you solder, and are you happy carrying out a very minor alteration to the Beeb PCB?
Also if you can solder, have a look a UPURS, anyone how can solder should be able to make a lead up.
Do you have (and use) a floppy disk drive with your Beeb? If yes do you have a PC that can actually write to disk using Ominflop?

If you can solder and don't mind making a minor alteration to your Beeb PCB, and have a disk drive, I think using UPURS, fitting a SRAM and a EEPROM would be the most flexible solution. [Model B Beebs have four sideways "ROM" sockets, after this you would have filled them: BASIC, DFS, SRAM chip, EEPROM].

You can then run UPURS from disk, and copy any "ROM" image to either SRAM or EEPROM. when the SRAM loses power, it forgets. EEPROM is a modern form of EPROM that can be written to while in the Beeb. It can also be erased in the Beeb.

If you don't have a way of getting software from a PC to the Beeb, things get a bit more complex.

Mark

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ukretrogamer
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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by ukretrogamer » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:24 pm

Is your Model B already equipped with sideways RAM? If so, as Sydney has said above; you could load the ROMs into Sideways RAM from a floppy at each boot. The downside to this is powering off the Beeb means you'd need to re-load the ROM from floppy again.

If you had a battery-backed up SRAM module such as a Dallas DS1230Y in there, you'd only need to upload once. The on-board battery would retain the ROM(s) you'd previously uploaded between sessions.

Another big plus to sideways-loading ROMs is you don't need to keep opening up the Beeb and removing the keyboard to get at the ROM sockets. (Assuming you don't have an ashtray ZIF socket, that is?)

I could make up a UPURS cable/ROM combo for you, if you're not confident with a soldering iron. Alternatively, I could burn ROMs for each OS too, but I IMHO, sideways-loading is a more flexible solution.

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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by caolan » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:39 pm

1024MAK wrote:Can you solder, and are you happy carrying out a very minor alteration to the Beeb PCB?
I have a soldering iron and have used it on occasion, wouldn't say I feel particularly confident with it though - soldering components in is ok, but I tend to make a hash of removing them. I may be able to get a friend to help out if necessary. If I can avoid it that would be better ;)
1024MAK wrote:Do you have (and use) a floppy disk drive with your Beeb? If yes do you have a PC that can actually write to disk using Ominflop?
Not yet, but I'm hoping to pick one up. I only have modern machines other than the beeb, no floppy drives around.
1024MAK wrote:You can then run UPURS from disk, and copy any "ROM" image to either SRAM or EEPROM. when the SRAM loses power, it forgets. EEPROM is a modern form of EPROM that can be written to while in the Beeb. It can also be erased in the Beeb.
That sounds workable - do I need anything special to support the EEPROM in the beeb then?

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1024MAK
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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by 1024MAK » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:04 pm

No support needed for reading from a EEPROM.
To support erasing and writing, you need a copy of the software that MartinB has produced. It, along with all the info is in a thread on these forums (it maybe in the link posted earlier in this thread).

If you don't yet have a disk drive for your Beeb, UPURS can download "ROM" images direct from a modern PC to the SRAM chip fitted in one of the sideways "ROM" sockets.

However, you would need a UPURS ROM (on the Beeb, UPURS can run from disk or ROM, there are versions for each).

Edit: Linky for UPURS

Mark

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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by DutchAcorn » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:00 pm

caolan wrote:... Not yet, but I'm hoping to pick one up. I only have modern machines other than the beeb, no floppy drives around.
As an alternative to a floppy drive you can also consider a memory card solution, either a ready made one (including ROM) or the DIY alternative. If you go for the DIY alternative, I'd recommend this SD card reader. Be sure to get <4MB micro SD cards for maximum compatibility, e.g. this one.

For the maximum retro experience you'd need to get a floppy drive of course 8) But good quality floppies can be a bit hard to find...

For sideways ram for use with languages there's also a ready made solution, although that isn't quite as plug and play as the memory card add-on.
Paul

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caolan
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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by caolan » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:50 pm

Thanks for the advice I'll take a look at EEPROM options - out of interest did anyone have an answer to my original question on an EPROM programming service? thedark kindly offered but unfortunately I'm not Dutch :(

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daveejhitchins
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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by daveejhitchins » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:01 pm

caolan wrote:Thanks for the advice I'll take a look at EEPROM options - out of interest did anyone have an answer to my original question on an EPROM programming service? thedark kindly offered but unfortunately I'm not Dutch :(
If you need any EPROMs/EEPROMs programming just send me a PM with details.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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1024MAK
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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by 1024MAK » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:31 pm

caolan wrote:Thanks for the advice I'll take a look at EEPROM options - out of interest did anyone have an answer to my original question on an EPROM programming service? thedark kindly offered but unfortunately I'm not Dutch :(
So did UKretroGamer...

And Dave H :D has offered, and when I can shoehorn some time, I can do them as well...

Mark

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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by bprosman » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:05 pm

I am (Dutch :wink: ) not sure what a few Eproms would cost to send. I can program/send you some , got some spare 27128's.
What is it what you are looking for ?
I'm not that BBC-B literate so I need some guidance what to put in :oops:

Regards, Bram

caolan
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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by caolan » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:50 pm

Wow, thank you all for offering help! I may PM some of you once I've refurb'ed my PSU :)

Edit: ...and I get PM rights ;)

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1024MAK
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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by 1024MAK » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:46 pm

caolan wrote:Edit: ...and I get PM rights ;)
About 14 posts to go, unless you ask an admin...

Mark

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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by richardtoohey » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:57 pm

caolan wrote:unfortunately I'm not Dutch :(
I think the ROMs will stay in English. :lol:

Sorry, couldn't resist! OK, OK, I'm leaving now! :-#

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1024MAK
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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by 1024MAK » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:17 pm

Oh, and while we are on about servicing Beeb's and buying Beeb bits, Mark at RetroClinic and BeebMaster are respected members who also sell various items. As well as his eBay items, Mark can also supply various spares and refurbished parts/modules/PSUs/computers...

You can get hold of Mark, Mr RetroClinic via his web site http://www.retroclinic.com/

BeebMaster's site including his shop is here: http://www.beebmaster.co.uk/Default.html
He used to give discounts for stardot members but check with him first ;-)

Dave H. :D can supply various chips related to Elks and Beebs including EEPROMs.

I've traded with all three and can recommend all of them :D.

Of course, being a new member, you can't use the Private Message (PM) function yet. So instead put a post in the 8 bit hardware section about your problems and put a post in the wanted section for what parts you want, and we will go from there :wink:
Once you can PM, you can of course contact all of them directly via PM.

For electronic parts, I use these (in no particular order):
ESR
Rapid
Quarndon (Note that Quarndon have closed).
Farnell
CPC
Maplin
RS
I have used all of the above.
There is also:
Bowood
which I myself have not used, but which has a good reputation from other members on both this forum and another forum I'm a member of.

Mark
Last edited by 1024MAK on Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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richardtoohey
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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by richardtoohey » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:23 am

1024MAK wrote:I've traded with all three and can recommend all of them :D.
+1 (well +1000!) to that. Very nice people, indeed. :D

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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by caolan » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:12 pm

Out of interest, does the format differ between rom and tape/disk software?

This archive: http://wouter.bbcmicro.net/bbc/bbc-software.html (the one marked 2009.01.28) - has many of the programs I'd like to run but they don't have the ".ssd" extension seemingly used by most disk images. I've tried loading them with beebem as roms (added to /usr/share/beebem/roms/bbc/ and ~/.beebem/roms.cfg) and they all appear to work, but are they likely to work if copied to EPROM/EEPROM and used in a real Model B?

This is probably a stupid question :P

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Elminster
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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by Elminster » Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:16 pm

caolan wrote:Out of interest, does the format differ between rom and tape/disk software?

This archive: http://wouter.bbcmicro.net/bbc/bbc-software.html (the one marked 2009.01.28) - has many of the programs I'd like to run but they don't have the ".ssd" extension seemingly used by most disk images. I've tried loading them with beebem as roms (added to /usr/share/beebem/roms/bbc/ and ~/.beebem/roms.cfg) and they all appear to work, but are they likely to work if copied to EPROM/EEPROM and used in a real Model B?

This is probably a stupid question :P
They are ROM images so no they won't be ssd (which is a disk image), they will work fine as a ROM in both BeebEM and a real EPROM. I have several images from wouter's site burnt/blown to real EPROMs.

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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by danielj » Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:28 pm

ROMs are 8 or 16k images which run off a ROM chip (28 pins, stick it in a socket). These are the things you can stick in the ROMS.cfg file to get to work. ssd is the format for single sided disc images, Double sided disc images tend to be dsd. There are a variety of methods for getting disc images onto a real floppy disc for use with a real beeb.

I think the confusion has come about because of people referring to MAME/Console emulator ROMS in the past (and indeed these were ROMs), and then applying it to all archived software whether it be a disc image or a ROM image.

All the things in Wouter's archive are ROM images. As Elminster said, you'll need to either burn these to a real EPROM IC with an eprom programmer, or install sideways RAM, get them saved as files on a beeb format floppy, and load them into the sideways RAM to use them.


d.

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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by richardtoohey » Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:03 am

You could create an SSD on a PC and then copy the ROM image file(s) onto it, then use TurboMMC or a DataCentre or a GoSDC to then get onto a real BBC.

How useful they would be on a real BBC depends what you have on there (as Daniel says). If a vanilla BBC then of no use - you need some sideways RAM.

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Re: EPROM Programming Service

Post by Methanoid » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:30 pm

ukretrogamer wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:49 am
You haven't said which micro you intend to test these ROMs with.

If you have a Master (for the cartridge slots), an ABR might be a cheaper solution than an EPROM burner. You could upload ROM images to battery-backup RAM and (if required) lock it, so it becomes read-only, in case of software protection.

If your BBC is equipped with Sideways RAM. there's the UPURS system. With this, you use a single ROM socket along with a User-port cable in combination with a USB-to-Serial adaptor to upload ROMs from a PC/Mac/Linux box in a few seconds.

Where are you located? I, along with a number of members here have EPROM burning facilities and would be willing to help but even if you pay only for EPROMs and postage, it might still work out more expensive (and less flexible) than one of the sideways RAM solutions mentioned above.

Hi, newb here but wondering if this kind offer only applies to long standing members... I am after some Eproms for my 16bits (27C010 and 27C800) but intend to pick up a BBC B and get some stuff on Eprom as well as other media. I'm in UK BTW!

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