EPROM programmer on windows

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DutchAcorn
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EPROM programmer on windows

Post by DutchAcorn »

Much as I would like to play with eprom programming on a BBC Micro I am beginning to accept that I will not get a programmer against (for me) acceptable cost.

So I have started looking for alternatives. Following the advice in this article I have found a TOP 835 programmer and a very asian looking eraser.

As I am very new to eprom programming my question is: will this do the job for BBC B/Master compatible 16K and 32K eproms and is there anything special I should look for in the specifications? Also a link to a more comprehensive guide to eprom programming is much appreciated!

Thanks for any comments! :D

Paul
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1024MAK
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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by 1024MAK »

What PC OS do you use? A lot of the less expensive programmers will only work with either XP or 32bit Vista. Only recent updated (more expensive) variants normally can cope with 64 bit Windows 7 (I don't know about Windows 8 ).

So far I have not found anything modern and inexpensive that works with Linux, but stopped looking a while ago after a quick search did not produce many useful results.

I use a second hand obsolete type (a Dataman S4) which can receive data from a serial port which is great for use with a Linux.

Earlier this year I got this "Universal miniPRO EPROM EEPROM FLASH Programmer TL866CS High speed AVR" but have not really put it through it's paces yet (as it means I need to power up a Windows PC). A similar one is this
TL866CS programmer.JPG
Both the above are to save me using a parallel port Willem EPROM Programmer on a Windows 2000 PC for programming. Willem EPROM Programmers these days are "USB" powered, but for reliable programming of 21V or 25V EPROMs it is strongly recommended they be powered by an external DC power supply. Having said that, the version of the Willem EPROM Programmer that I have worked okay every time I used it.

All EPROMs with a lower capacity than 32k bytes are obsolete (including the 27C128 16 k byte types used in Beebs). This year type 27C256 (32k bytes) became obsolete but are still available (last time I looked). You can use 27C256 in Beebs.

27C256 use a 12.5V programming voltage and program okay using USB powered programmers. Older obsolete type EPROMs (27128 types) use either a 21V or a 12.5V programming voltage depending on when and by who they were produced. Some USB powered programmers do not always reliably program the 21V types.

Mark
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sweh
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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by sweh »

I have a cheap Willem v5 clone from eBay that works well enough. Once I worked out how to tell Windows to stop polling the parallel port! http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewto ... =11&t=5381

There are USB variants, but I've not tried them.
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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by DutchAcorn »

Thanks for the advice Mark! =D> My main workhorse PC is a WIn7 64, and indeed most of the eprom programmers on eBay do not support anything newer than WinXP, including the one I linked to in my first post.

The one you linked to looks like a much better choice.

I have inherited quite enough 16K and 32K eproms to last me a while, so I am not too worried yet about availability of those.
sweh wrote:I have a cheap Willem v5 clone from eBay that works well enough. Once I worked out how to tell Windows to stop polling the parallel port! http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewto ... =11&t=5381

There are USB variants, but I've not tried them.
Thanks for the link Stephen, I think I'll try a USB driven programmer using Win7 (someone's got to do it :wink: ).


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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by ukretrogamer »

Mark [1024MAK],

The minipro from your image works fine when powered from a USB port for programming 27C64/128/256/512/010/040. I know, because I've owned one for a couple of months now and these are the chips I've used with it. I've also duplicated programmed Atmel Atmega328 AVRs (including their fuse-settings) in a single pass.

It's quick too. (Blistering by comparison to my Watford Electronics Beeb programmer).

The programming software is currently supported with regular updates and on the EEVBlog forums, there's even a Linux programming package being developed for it, though I don't know which ROMs it currently supports under Linux.

The programmer was recommended to me by someone over at the AtariAge forums and it would appear it's quickly becoming the go-to inexpensive programmer for pinball and retro-computer users.
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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by 1024MAK »

Thanks for that info, ukretrogamer :D

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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by ukretrogamer »

1024MAK wrote:Thanks for that info, ukretrogamer :D

Mark
Try here for Linux source, GUI, etc.
http://minipro.txt.si/index.php?title=Linux_Software
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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by Jameson »

I would recommend against that eraser!
I had the exact same model.
After a few runs the switch went 'squish' and it died.
I soldered in a new switch, and after a few more runs something else died.
So I gave up and got an old one off Ebay (a Northern UV1B) - built of heavy sheet metal, doesn't use the UV as a power-on light, and still working fine after 15 years.
(As it should - it's just a fluorescent light fitting after all...)
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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by KarateEd »

1024MAK wrote:What PC OS do you use? A lot of the less expensive programmers will only work with either XP or 32bit Vista. Only recent updated (more expensive) variants normally can cope with 64 bit Windows 7 (I don't know about Windows 8 ).
Windows 10 for me.....it's supported so the documents say.
1024MAK wrote:Earlier this year I got this "Universal miniPRO EPROM EEPROM FLASH Programmer TL866CS High speed AVR" but have not really put it through it's paces yet (as it means I need to power up a Windows PC). A similar one is [url=http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-MiniPro-T ... Universal-

27C256 use a 12.5V programming voltage and program okay using USB powered programmers. Older obsolete type EPROMs (27128 types) use either a 21V or a 12.5V programming voltage depending on when and by who they were produced. Some USB powered programmers do not always reliably program the 21V types.

Mark
I'm using the M27C256B chip.

I've tried burning Logo onto them (AcornSoft Logo1 and Logo2). I did this using binary no hex which is what I would expect to be using. The programmer said the burn was successful and I've posted a picture showing the first bits of the chip after burning.

A couple of questions as this is my very first time using any eprom burner.....

Am I correct in using binary to burn the chip?
The program help says I can erase the chip but it seems the erase portion is greyed out. If I could have ideas on this it would be most useful.
Are the voltages correct for this type of burn?

The reason for the questions is that when I put the chips in my Beeb, they were not recognized at all, either through *HELP or *ROMS.

Thanks so much for any help that can be offered....

Ed......:-)
Attachments
Logo1.png
Ed...... :-)

3 working Beebs, 1 RetroClinic Master, 1 normal Master, 1 A3010, 1 Pi2 RISC OS, 2 broken Beeb Motherboards, 1 Omnibus A7000+ server, 1 A7000+ Desktop, 1 PET, 1 C64, 1 C128, 1 Amiga 500 and 1 Roamer.
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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by 1024MAK »

EPROM chips can only be erased by UV light. They cannot be erased electrically.
The programmer can also program EEPROMs and Flash memory chips. Both of which can be erased electrically.
That is why, with an EPROM, the erase button is greyed out.

Model A and B BBC Micro computers were designed to take 8k byte (2764 or 27C64) and 16k byte (27128 or 27C128) EPROMs and pin compatiable PROM and ROM chips. So if you put a 27256 or a 27C256 chip in one of the sockets and have programmed the chip from address 0000 (this is the address as seen by the chip, NOT the address seen by the CPU), the CPU will not see your program. Why? Because on a 27128 or 27C128, pin 27 is /PGM (which is held high by the Beeb), but on a 27256 or 27C256 it is address pin A14.
A14 being held high means the CPU in the Beeb can only access the upper 16k area (the upper half of the available 32k bytes of the memory in the EPROM chip). So instead of programming the EPROM at address 0000, instead set the programmer to start at address 0x4000 hex. Then your program should work okay :D.

Oh, nearly forgot. For most ROM dumps / files, yes use binary. As that is all these files are, unformated binary data (a straight copy of an existing ROM chip normally). The other file formats are for when the data to program the chip is in a formal format, like an Intel Hex file, which is in plain ASCII but which may include address data and check sums.

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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by KarateEd »

Thanks Mark,

I'll give it a try and see how we make out with it.

Ed......:-)
Ed...... :-)

3 working Beebs, 1 RetroClinic Master, 1 normal Master, 1 A3010, 1 Pi2 RISC OS, 2 broken Beeb Motherboards, 1 Omnibus A7000+ server, 1 A7000+ Desktop, 1 PET, 1 C64, 1 C128, 1 Amiga 500 and 1 Roamer.
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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by KarateEd »

I now have 2 LOGO ROMs programmed, thanks Mark(Mak).

Ed......:-)
Ed...... :-)

3 working Beebs, 1 RetroClinic Master, 1 normal Master, 1 A3010, 1 Pi2 RISC OS, 2 broken Beeb Motherboards, 1 Omnibus A7000+ server, 1 A7000+ Desktop, 1 PET, 1 C64, 1 C128, 1 Amiga 500 and 1 Roamer.
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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by 1024MAK »

Great :D, I'm glad that you have now 'blown' your first working EPROMs, well done =D> =D> =D>

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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by KarateEd »

1024MAK wrote:Great :D, I'm glad that you have now 'blown' your first working EPROMs, well done =D> =D> =D>

Mark
Thanks Mark,

Being that far from Beeb land and one of my Mother Nations (Mom's side is English) it would be expensive getting any ROM I might want. I tested a Logo ROM I purchased and it just didn't work. I think I'll check it in the burner and see what it looks like but for that reason I felt I should have the capacity to burn EEPROMs.

On another note, if I left the 2 that I burnt erroneously in bright sunlight, how long would it take for them to wipe?

Edit: I've resolved this question via eBay, for a change in North America. I have a UV light box coming for about 12 pounds or so.

Thanks again Mark,

Ed......:-)
Ed...... :-)

3 working Beebs, 1 RetroClinic Master, 1 normal Master, 1 A3010, 1 Pi2 RISC OS, 2 broken Beeb Motherboards, 1 Omnibus A7000+ server, 1 A7000+ Desktop, 1 PET, 1 C64, 1 C128, 1 Amiga 500 and 1 Roamer.
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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by duikkie »

any programmer will do if serial then you can write your own beeb programmer.

on marktplaats offer 42.50 , much to expansief voor that epx epromboard for pc/c64 ?

http://www.marktplaats.nl/a/computers-e ... e=lr&pos=8

look at willem eprommer ??

writing your on software for it piece of cake :lol:

maybe build one yourself , few serial to parralel chip's 4 plus 1 parralel to serial , ic foot and software done :shock:
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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by 1024MAK »

KarateEd wrote:On another note, if I left the 2 that I burnt erroneously in bright sunlight, how long would it take for them to wipe?
Um, I have never actually timed it. Something to do with the intermittent sun light in my part of the world :roll:

I think (assuming sunny clear days), it takes a number of weeks. But you need to keep testing to see if all memory locations have reverted back to &FF. Then give it another week to make sure it is fully erased (as the memory cells are actually analogue).

However, if you have not programmed anything above 0x4000 and this area through to the end of the EPROM reads as &FF, then you can still program this part of the EPROM with your desired 'ROM' code :wink:

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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by DutchAcorn »

KarateEd wrote:On another note, if I left the 2 that I burnt erroneously in bright sunlight, how long would it take for them to wipe?
Don't wait too long placing them in the sun, I hear the ozone layer is recovering! :lol:
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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by KarateEd »

1024MAK wrote:
KarateEd wrote:On another note, if I left the 2 that I burnt erroneously in bright sunlight, how long would it take for them to wipe?
Um, I have never actually timed it. Something to do with the intermittent sun light in my part of the world :roll:

I think (assuming sunny clear days), it takes a number of weeks. But you need to keep testing to see if all memory locations have reverted back to &FF. Then give it another week to make sure it is fully erased (as the memory cells are actually analogue).

However, if you have not programmed anything above 0x4000 and this area through to the end of the EPROM reads as &FF, then you can still program this part of the EPROM with your desired 'ROM' code :wink:

Mark
Yes, was playing and just figuring out what values needed to go where, have it sorted so will choose my next couple ROMs to burn and give this a try.

I'll wait for the UV light before trying to erase anything......the sun would likely still be working on it when the eraser comes in.

I would not worry too much about the ozone layer. Planet earth has a way of repairing regardless of how we treat her. She's been around much longer than we and we'll be gone long before her too I believe.

Ed......:-)
Ed...... :-)

3 working Beebs, 1 RetroClinic Master, 1 normal Master, 1 A3010, 1 Pi2 RISC OS, 2 broken Beeb Motherboards, 1 Omnibus A7000+ server, 1 A7000+ Desktop, 1 PET, 1 C64, 1 C128, 1 Amiga 500 and 1 Roamer.
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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by KarateEd »

Hi Folks,

Ok, I've got the ROM burning stuff figured out for existing ROMs. In the future I'll attempt to figure out how to put programs on the ROMs but that's probably a retirement project.

Just for fun, here are a couple of pictures showing the interior ROMs and the screen shot of the ROMs as they appear in the slots.

Ed......:-)
Interior Beeb.JPG
My ROMs.JPG
Ed...... :-)

3 working Beebs, 1 RetroClinic Master, 1 normal Master, 1 A3010, 1 Pi2 RISC OS, 2 broken Beeb Motherboards, 1 Omnibus A7000+ server, 1 A7000+ Desktop, 1 PET, 1 C64, 1 C128, 1 Amiga 500 and 1 Roamer.
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Re: EPROM programmer on windows

Post by richud »

If anyone is interested, the linux miniPRO programmer 'minipro' is good

https://github.com/vdudouyt/minipro

I remember struggling to work the chip syntax out initially so if it is of help to someone.... (-w write, -p chip, -y forces it, shouldn't be needed but was on Tosh EPROM).

Looking in devices.h will give the correct 'name' for -p option.

e.g.

./minipro -p "TC57256D @DIP28" -w /home/rich/Dropbox/BBC/MMFS/build/U/MMFS_32k.rom -y

./minipro -p "HN27C256HG @DIP28" -w ../BBC/DFS-2.26_32k.rom
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