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3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 8:34 am
by daveejhitchins
I'm in the middle of deciding which 3D printer to 'grab'. Kit form, to keep prices down. Love to hear peoples thoughts. There was this:
paulb wrote:A while back, I did some work on [url=http://starThere are a few things I'll do to improve this, but I'd like to thank srepmub of VIC-20 cartridge fame for crossing the platform divide and printing out my design, and doing lots of extra work to make it printable and presentable.
I followed the link, when this was first posted, and found a link to a 3D printer kit . . . Darned if I can find it again! Anyone else find the same thing - - - Or was it just a dream? I'm sure the kit price was just over £500. This kit listed all parts and where to buy them from.

I'm currently considering the RepRap, available from RS - It Would seem to fit the bill and the price is about right, for me. But it doesn't seem to compare the the one I found, mentioned above.

Dave H :D

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 10:23 am
by danielj
I built one from reprap pro -

https://reprappro.com/product-category/machine-kits/

I have a huxley - they've come down massively in price!

d.

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 10:55 am
by PhilYoung
danielj wrote:I built one from reprap pro -

https://reprappro.com/product-category/machine-kits/

I have a huxley - they've come down massively in price!

d.
Another vote for the RepRapPro Huxley as well. The only significant problems that I had were that the hot end temperature on mine needed to be significantly higher than expected, and the I also had to up the current to the extruder stepper motor (against the dire warnings in the documentation). Once I'd done that it produces quite useable prints, using the standard 0.5mm nozzle.

It might be worth mentioning also that I had much better quality with the supplied filament (Faberdashery PLA) than a cheap reel from ebay, so it's possible that you get what you pay for. The cheap stuff more-or-less works OK now but only after a lot of faffing.

The first thing you print should be the optional filament cooling fan mount, this made a lot of difference to the cheap filament.

Good luck with it,

Cheers,

Phil Young

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 11:15 am
by danielj
Phil, did you make some of my huxley fan-mounts that are on thingiverse? :)

One other thing I've found for PLA - heated glass is by far and away the best substrate to print on...

Also PLA from KDI (on amazon) seems to work pretty well!

d.

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 11:50 am
by nOmArch
I have a Robo3D, Does ABS & PLA, will do 50 micron layers is based on a Prusa model and only cost £450.

I have printed some excellent stuff with it.

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Various bits for a Delta printer me and my mate are building

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Note II Dock

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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 12:41 pm
by PhilYoung
danielj wrote:Phil, did you make some of my huxley fan-mounts that are on thingiverse? :)
Hi - I printed one of these http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:160549 which fits onto the back of the x-carriage and uses a 40mm fan - I used one out of an old PC PSU and the 12v fan works very well at 19v !

I can't tell which your mounts are, which 'thing' are they ?
danielj wrote: One other thing I've found for PLA - heated glass is by far and away the best substrate to print on...
I've not had too much trouble printing onto the supplied Aluminium heated bed covered in Kapton. Again, the supplied filament stuck well at the default 95 degC, but the cheapo stuff needs below 60 degC.

danielj wrote: Also PLA from KDI (on amazon) seems to work pretty well!
I'll look at that, thanks for the suggestion. Thinking it through, it seems to me that the 'good' PLA must have a much more sharply defined melting point than 'poor' PLA - so solidifies quickly when it leaves the extruder where the poor stuff stays plastic for longer and is deformed the next time the extruder comes round. Similarly it needs a much lower bed temperature to stick.

I've just ordered a 0.3mm hot-end kit, so I expect that will open up a whole new world of frustration....

Cheers,

Phil Young

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 1:51 pm
by Prime
Humm looking more tempting all the time, I have loads of things I could use this for.

Wondering if it could print me a case for my Jupiter Ace or ZX80 clone boards.

Just a couple of problems tho.....

1) No where at the moment to site it I really need a clear out....anyone want an SGI Indy / Indigo / Indigo 2 ?

2) Whilst Lesley & I know not to touch the hot moving parts, I'm not sure that May, Fo and Ginger Puss would know to leave alone.....

Cheers.

Phill.

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 2:31 pm
by danielj
This was the fan I put in play:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:32746

I've kept the aluminium bed, but just used some small bulldog clips to pop a piece of glass on top of it. It's helped a lot with the cheaper PLA. The other nice thing is as soon as the temp drops below about 50C, the parts just lift off.

I've also got a 0.3mm nozzle sitting in a bag waiting to go... I haven't quite had the wherewithal to put it on and re-calibrate everything yet!

d.

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 3:03 pm
by nOmArch
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190934554532? ... 1439.l2649

That's where I get my PLA from. 1Kg for less than £20 and the quality is almost as good as Faberdashery's. Sticks brilliantly and doesn't warp.

So, anyone else got any examples of stuff they've printed?

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 8:38 am
by daveejhitchins
danielj wrote:I have a huxley - they've come down massively in price!
Thanks, Daniel and everyone else. It looks like a Huxley may just be the ticket. I don't have any plans other than to service my need for project cases for the Elk and Master cartridges. But I may need assistance setting-up the software :roll:

@PaulB - Paul, any chance your associate would be willing to part with his file for the cartridge case? I would seem a shame to 'reinvent' the wheel!

Now . . . What's the loudest colour I can find :lol:

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 1:13 pm
by paulb
daveejhitchins wrote:
danielj wrote:@PaulB - Paul, any chance your associate would be willing to part with his file for the cartridge case? I would seem a shame to 'reinvent' the wheel!
Well, the original OpenSCAD file is my own doing, and you can get that here, slightly enhanced from the previously printed part. Here's what it looks like now:
The slightly enhanced cartridge.
The slightly enhanced cartridge.
I can generate an STL file from that - it's an export option in OpenSCAD - but I think my associate did some postprocessing to produce a gcode file. The experts here will surely be able to fill in the missing details, but I could ask my associate for some more details of the process.

I was told that some of the dimensions could be adjusted to make it easier to print, but I don't think I made all the adjustments yet, just some that were fairly easy and should help the halves of the cartridge fit together without the use of glue or stickers. :wink: Apparently, not having any 0.5mm walls, replacing them where possible with 1mm, would be a big help for some printers.
daveejhitchins wrote:Now . . . What's the loudest colour I can find :lol:
I think the loud colours suit the 1980s retro mood very well. :lol:

P.S. This thread seems to hate my browser. I guess it doesn't like all the pictures. :(

P.P.S. Since writing the above, I've changed the side walls to be 2mm, which should help a bit with 3D printing.

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 2:55 pm
by nOmArch
Dave needs the STL file. Once he has his printer set up and working he'll need to slice it using skeinforge or slic3r to make the gcode file correct for his printer.

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 3:13 pm
by nOmArch
paulb wrote: P.S. This thread seems to hate my browser. I guess it doesn't like all the pictures. :(
Well they're formatted correctly and hosted with a proper image host, it's more likely to be your bandwidth.

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 5:01 pm
by paulb
nOmArch wrote:
paulb wrote: P.S. This thread seems to hate my browser. I guess it doesn't like all the pictures. :(
Well they're formatted correctly and hosted with a proper image host, it's more likely to be your bandwidth.
I think it's my computer: I only have 1GB RAM and Firefox starts to take a lot of that when loading the page. Recent versions of Firefox tend to dynamically load images - you see this sometimes because images will suddenly appear as they are scrolled into view - but maybe there's some script-type thing the forum uses that defeats Firefox's caching and other clever tricks.

Just looking at the image details, though, I see that they're scaled down in the browser even in the small "topic review" panel: "2,937px × 2,203px (scaled to 600px × 450px)" it says. So it might also be the bandwidth as well. A lot of Web publishing tools actually reduce the size of previews in order to avoid downloading unnecessary pixels, but I guess this forum doesn't do that.

Still, some nice printing results to be seen. :)

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 6:23 pm
by george.h
I think it's my computer: I only have 1GB RAM
How times have changed..... :wink:

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 10:18 pm
by paulb
Anyway, I've now attached a zip archive of the revised STL file for this revision of the design.

I've been told that this should be all you need from me, but then you need to do a few other things, not limited to (1) rotating the model into an optimal position for printing, (2) slicing the model for actual printing, (3) sanity-checking the sliced representation, eventually printing and doing finishing work on the printed result.

My impression is that the finishing work is the kind of thing people don't advertise when trying to sell you a printer, but that it's rather important if you are to get anything presentable at the end of it all. Maybe newer, fancier printers need less of this extra effort: if so, maybe it's almost time for me to jump on board the bandwagon as well. :lol:

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 10:12 pm
by nOmArch
Looks good!

I'll try printing one tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 10:42 pm
by daveejhitchins
paulb wrote:Well, the original OpenSCAD file is my own doing, and you can get that here, slightly enhanced from the previously printed part. Here's what it looks like now:
Paul: I haven't had the time, or facilities (yet), to look at the SCAD files, however, looking at the images you posted - - - The lid fixing holes - have you allowed for a surface, at the bottom of the screw 'tubes', for the screw head to clamp-down on? If that makes sense?

Dave H :D

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 10:59 pm
by paulb
daveejhitchins wrote:
paulb wrote:Well, the original OpenSCAD file is my own doing, and you can get that here, slightly enhanced from the previously printed part. Here's what it looks like now:
Paul: I haven't had the time, or facilities (yet), to look at the SCAD files, however, looking at the images you posted - - - The lid fixing holes - have you allowed for a surface, at the bottom of the screw 'tubes', for the screw head to clamp-down on? If that makes sense?

Dave H :D
The "lugs" as I call them merely lock together, perhaps with slightly too little overlap (another potential enhancement!) and there's no ACP cartridge-style screw-through capability. I'm not sure whether that answers your question, though. :lol:

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 11:42 pm
by nOmArch
Had time to try one side of it.

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Came out pretty well but if you can lose the slight inset for the sticker on the front side it'll print a lot easier and sturdier.

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 8:06 am
by daveejhitchins
@Alex - Looking good. Re Insert for Sticker: I think, at least, it could be reduced. I'm planning to use a Laminated Sticker using the thinnest material I can find.

@Paul - I see what you're saying about the lugs. I'll, probably, be using the screw option so I'll make the modifications at this end. It'll give me some experience with the software - I've have years with AutoCAD and I understand the 3D concept so It's just finding the time to familiarise myself with whatever I use. I have FreeCAD on my Mac - Has anyone used this package for printing work?

Dave H :D

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 1:59 pm
by nOmArch
@Dave,

I have modded the STL to remove the sticker inset, should print a lot better now.

E2A: Original file wasn't manifold, fixed it and and updated the link.

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 6:32 pm
by paulb
daveejhitchins wrote:@Alex - Looking good. Re Insert for Sticker: I think, at least, it could be reduced. I'm planning to use a Laminated Sticker using the thinnest material I can find.
The inset is supposed to be there for authenticity, really. I can easily make it an option in the SCAD file that you can switch on or off. What I'd like to know is where one can get those stickers that peel on and off an unlimited number of times because they form some kind of seal rather than using adhesive: are laminated stickers that kind of sticker?
daveejhitchins wrote:@Paul - I see what you're saying about the lugs. I'll, probably, be using the screw option so I'll make the modifications at this end. It'll give me some experience with the software - I've have years with AutoCAD and I understand the 3D concept so It's just finding the time to familiarise myself with whatever I use. I have FreeCAD on my Mac - Has anyone used this package for printing work?
I could add options for screw-through fastening in the SCAD file, too. If you're not comfortable with the strictly textual programmatic style of OpenSCAD, you could probably use another tool to achieve the same thing. I seem to recall AutoCAD being more or less based on the same principles, but with a fairly basic graphical interface, and I think that FreeCAD attempts to do the same thing, but I disliked the interface's inconsistencies and can get things done quicker using OpenSCAD anyway.

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 6:38 pm
by paulb
nOmArch wrote:Had time to try one side of it.

Came out pretty well but if you can lose the slight inset for the sticker on the front side it'll print a lot easier and sturdier.
It looks great! As I noted above, the inset is just for a fairly accurate reproduction of the original, and for practical purposes it could be omitted, just as a number of other superficial features could also be omitted without compromising the functionality of the design.

Configuring the different things is best done in OpenSCAD: it's just a matter of having some settings that get tested when constructing the structure. If you'd like me to add support for such things, just let me know and I'll see what can be done.

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 9:40 pm
by daveejhitchins
paulb wrote:The inset is supposed to be there for authenticity, really. I can easily make it an option in the SCAD file that you can switch on or off. What I'd like to know is where one can get those stickers that peel on and off an unlimited number of times because they form some kind of seal rather than using adhesive: are laminated stickers that kind of sticker?
No, I was thinking of using a standard laminator with the thinnest sleeve and using Pritt Stick :oops: Cheap and cheerful!
paulb wrote:I could add options for screw-through fastening in the SCAD file, too. If you're not comfortable with the strictly textual programmatic style of OpenSCAD, you could probably use another tool to achieve the same thing. I seem to recall AutoCAD being more or less based on the same principles, but with a fairly basic graphical interface, and I think that FreeCAD attempts to do the same thing, but I disliked the interface's inconsistencies and can get things done quicker using OpenSCAD anyway.
Anything to life easier, however, I'll have to take the plunge into 3D drawings sooner or later. AutoCAD's just 2D - Used for standard drawings. Is there a version of OpenCAD for the Mac - I'm being lazy here, not looked!

Huxley now on order . . . Just what I need - more on my to-do-list :lol:

Dave H :D

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:49 pm
by nOmArch
paulb wrote:
Configuring the different things is best done in OpenSCAD: it's just a matter of having some settings that get tested when constructing the structure. If you'd like me to add support for such things, just let me know and I'll see what can be done.
No need, I used Sketchup; took a couple of minutes to create the new STL file.

I'll print the back and the new front tomorrow to see what it looks like.

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 2:13 pm
by nOmArch
Front

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Came out really well.

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 9:00 pm
by daveejhitchins
nOmArch wrote:Came out really well.
It did =D>

Have you tried a PCB in there yet? If you don't have one I could loan you one to try?

Dave H :D

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 10:25 pm
by paulb
daveejhitchins wrote:
paulb wrote:The inset is supposed to be there for authenticity, really. I can easily make it an option in the SCAD file that you can switch on or off. What I'd like to know is where one can get those stickers that peel on and off an unlimited number of times because they form some kind of seal rather than using adhesive: are laminated stickers that kind of sticker?
No, I was thinking of using a standard laminator with the thinnest sleeve and using Pritt Stick :oops: Cheap and cheerful!
I did a quick search for "adhesive-free stickers" and found mentions of vinyl stickers and places like this. Maybe that's what I'm thinking of.
daveejhitchins wrote:
paulb wrote:I could add options for screw-through fastening in the SCAD file, too. If you're not comfortable with the strictly textual programmatic style of OpenSCAD, you could probably use another tool to achieve the same thing. I seem to recall AutoCAD being more or less based on the same principles, but with a fairly basic graphical interface, and I think that FreeCAD attempts to do the same thing, but I disliked the interface's inconsistencies and can get things done quicker using OpenSCAD anyway.
Anything to life easier, however, I'll have to take the plunge into 3D drawings sooner or later. AutoCAD's just 2D - Used for standard drawings. Is there a version of OpenCAD for the Mac - I'm being lazy here, not looked!

Huxley now on order . . . Just what I need - more on my to-do-list :lol:
I know the feeling!

Meanwhile, for OpenSCAD (if that's what you meant), you can get downloads for different systems here. If you need any advice, don't hesitate to get in contact. I may do some more work on the cartridge, tidying and parameterising it a bit, but there's that long list of other stuff that needs attention as well, of course.

Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 10:29 pm
by paulb
nOmArch wrote:Came out really well.
Nice! Do the halves hold together acceptably well or is tape or stickers required? More importantly, would a board fit inside or did I mess up the internal measurements, leaving it a great way of attaching an empty plastic box to an Electron? :lol: