3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

discuss both original and modern hardware for the bbc micro/electron
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nOmArch
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by nOmArch »

Best thing to do would be be to send one of you guys the case, then you can assess it make some changes, if necessary, and then another one can be printed by me or any of the other fine people on here with a printer.

Sound good?

At a quick glance I think a PCB will fit in there nicely as is though. to get it to fit together snugly may need a little fettling/modding, only a little though.
Alex

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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by daveejhitchins »

nOmArch wrote:Best thing to do would be be to send one of you guys the case, then you can assess it make some changes, if necessary, and then another one can be printed by me or any of the other fine people on here with a printer.

Sound good?

At a quick glance I think a PCB will fit in there nicely as is though. to get it to fit together snugly may need a little fettling/modding, only a little though.
I'd like to take you up on your offer, Alex. It'll give me a good idea of what to expect when I start doing my own printing. I'll report back with what I find.

pm you my address.

Dave H :D
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by daveejhitchins »

Found some time today - Banned from my workshop so employed the kitchen table :oops:

Work so far:
3DSoFar1.jpg
Dave H :D
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by pkersey »

Have been reading this interesting thread. It's ace. Would you mind me asking some questions?

How large can a "3D Printer" sculpt anything? What are the limits?

For instance... let's say one wants to sculpt a whole BBC-B case... would a Huxley do?
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by danielj »

Each printer has a build volume. A Huxley will do 14x14x10cm.

d.
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by daveejhitchins »

pkersey wrote:For instance... let's say one wants to sculpt a whole BBC-B case... would a Huxley do?
The build volume for a Beeb case would require a missive printer. I've found out the limitations of these printers: It's in the accuracy of their construction. The Huxley is, comparatively, small, however, the setting-up, as I'm finding out, takes some care. You'd be paying a considerable amount for a large one that could handle the volume you need. At lease, it would have to be Very rigid!

My aim is just to print some cartridge case for the Elk/Master - well within the range of the Huxley. RepRapPro, the suppliers of the Huxley kits, do have a larger one. In fact they have a tricolour one too (I almost succumbed :oops: ). You can see their range Here.

Dave H :D

p.s. I'm NOT an expert, yet! But I have been doing a lot of reading - You could spend the rest of your life reading what's out there :shock:
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by danielj »

Which reminds me Dave, once you've got it printing, print a couple of these to reduce the strain on the z motor mounting brackets:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:32380

d.
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by daveejhitchins »

danielj wrote:Which reminds me Dave, once you've got it printing, print a couple of these to reduce the strain on the z motor mounting brackets:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:32380

d.
Thanks, Daniel - Downloaded already . . .

Dave H :D
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by 1024MAK »

The question is, when will they sell a 4D printer :lol:

Mark
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by george.h »

The question is, when will they sell a 4D printer
Just as soon as you print out a Flux Capacitor... 8) :wink:
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by nOmArch »

Started putting the Delta together

Image

Image

Image

Image

Today is for electronics and motors.
Alex

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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by pkersey »

Thanks for all the response!

In fact I have been excited about these matters since I first saw the 3D printer come to light long ago and I think it was the days of dial up Internet yet.

As it's a very advanced subject which requires mechanical skills I always felt a bit shy on it but this thread got me started and I think it would do a good hobby in the long term beside my retrocomputing fetishes.

I'm reading and trying to get ready for one "printer" like that in the future. A vast array of reading and forward preparation is needed and I'm entertaining my mind with all related information. What glorious days are these, the unthinkable is within our grasp!

Cheers!
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by daveejhitchins »

Some feedback, for Alex, reference his 'printed' Acorn Cartridge case.
CartridgeCase1.jpg
This first image shows the left hand side of a PCB in place inside the case, components down position. As can be seen the left hand 'support' is 'off' - being too far left, just out of sight.
CartridgeCase10.jpg
This image shows the opposite side. You can 'just' see the support - 'off' to the right. Note the 'boss' - very slightly misplaced (the 'other' half of the case shows this more clearly).
CartridgeCase12.jpg
Image showing the inside 'top' of the case.
CartridgeCase14.jpg
Opposite side of case - I've placed the 'boss' central, here, so the other side can been seen clearly - Below.
CartridgeCase15.jpg
The last image, below, shows the 'Polarising' (?) indent in the case. This is obviously a 'problem' to print as it the printer has to print in mid-air :shock: No idea how it does this. I did suggest, to Alex' that I have a 'machined' plate made so that the printing is always supported! We have a small milling machine, at work, may just have time to fit that project in :D
CartridgeCase17.jpg
Alex, I've attached the photos and dxf file. (Note: dxf isn't dimensioned, however, it's reasonably accurate (in mm). This is the drawing I use for my PCBs - shown in the dxf. I'll also send you a bare PCB.

All in all - pretty good for a start =D>

Dave H :D
CartridgeCase.zip
(1.21 MiB) Downloaded 35 times
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by danielj »

The trick with the bridged area will probably just to get it to print some "support" material which can be easily cut away?

d.
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by nOmArch »

Yes indeed, I was just waiting until we get a model that is dimensionally correct before I start fiddling with the print process.

Slic3r has some nice settings for support and now does the new pillars style.

All I did was print the model that paulb posted on page one of this thread, my CAD skills are not amazing so it may be worth having a word with paulb about modifications.
Alex

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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by paulb »

nOmArch wrote:All I did was print the model that paulb posted on page one of this thread, my CAD skills are not amazing so it may be worth having a word with paulb about modifications.
I think the DXF file is the same as the one Dave H posted before, so unless I made a mistake with the measurements (or a mistake encoding them in OpenSCAD), the CAD model should be accurate. Still, I can take another look and even measure my own printed cartridge to look for obvious problems.
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by daveejhitchins »

^^@Paul:

Should I send a PCB to you too, Paul? Do you have the time??

Dave H:D
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by paulb »

Some questions for Dave H here:

Is the slot for the edge connector big enough? The DXF file suggests 57.5mm and that's what the model uses, but some of the pictures suggest otherwise. Is that because the PCB is sitting on a support that is mispositioned in those pictures, thus pushing the PCB out of place deliberately?

I did notice that the PCB support ridge wasn't moved towards the centre enough in the model. Looking at my code, I guess I confused myself about the points between which my measurements were being made. Correcting this makes the ridge look more accurately positioned when consulting the DXF file.
The PCB support positioning.
The PCB support positioning.
Changes made and published to the usual place.
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by daveejhitchins »

Paul:

The edge connector 'slot' was OK, just. I did have the board offset, slightly, in some of the images due to it not fitting at the top.

Dave H : D
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by paulb »

daveejhitchins wrote:Paul:

The edge connector 'slot' was OK, just. I did have the board offset, slightly, in some of the images due to it not fitting at the top.

Dave H : D
OK, I think I misinterpreted the DXF before and made an unnecessary adjustment. :oops: So the "floor" of the cartridge should have been at 13.5mm above the bottom, not 14mm, and the floor itself should be 1mm thick, not 2mm. Maybe this gives the board the space it needs: we're really working at the limits of the medium here! :lol:

I made a physical mock-up of the board but managed to misinterpret my own diagram :roll: and get the edge connector wrong, but I think that this might solve the principal problem (beyond the previous positioning issues of the PCB support struts).

I might add the board itself to the CAD model just for reassurance, although there's nothing like physical prototyping to reveal obvious mistakes. Meanwhile, I've updated the model in my repository.
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by daveejhitchins »

^^^^@paulb If you pm me your address I'll get a PCB on its way, first thing Wednesday morning.

Dave H :D
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by nOmArch »

The blank PCB has arrived, thanks Dave, so if the model has been updated I can try another print.
Alex

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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by paulb »

nOmArch wrote:The blank PCB has arrived, thanks Dave, so if the model has been updated I can try another print.
I've updated the model again to take into account recent findings, and there's an STL file attached here:
cartridge.stl.zip
Yet another version of the cartridge.
(40.91 KiB) Downloaded 31 times
Because the top wall of the cartridge is actually 1mm thicker than in Dave's DXF, the board may experience a rather tight fit, but playing around with a mock PCB in OpenSCAD (and cutting some card and trying to fit it inside the first prototype) made me slightly more confident that the dimensions are closer than before, particularly the support struts which were mispositioned.
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by daveejhitchins »

One point I meant to mention: We don't have to keep to the actual shape! E.g. the front label inlay has gone already. We don't need the top label inlay, either, I believe! And thickening-up of the walls can be done on the outside of the case - The acorn cartridge is not a tight fit into the Elk or Master slots. The section that needs the 'support' could, probably, be left out altogether, as an example! There may be other areas that can be simplified too.

Dave H :D
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by paulb »

daveejhitchins wrote:One point I meant to mention: We don't have to keep to the actual shape! E.g. the front label inlay has gone already.
Well, it's still in the .scad file, but can obviously be taken out in the .stl file, and I can parameterise the original file to omit these kinds of details, anyway.
daveejhitchins wrote:We don't need the top label inlay, either, I believe! And thickening-up of the walls can be done on the outside of the case - The acorn cartridge is not a tight fit into the Elk or Master slots. The section that needs the 'support' could, probably, be left out altogether, as an example! There may be other areas that can be simplified too.
I'd have to change some of my working to work with thicker outer walls, probably adopting the inner volume as providing the invariant dimensions (rather than the outer volume). I haven't investigated the physical compatibility with the Plus 1 yet, either.

I certainly agree that we should be taking advantage of this "re-spin" to gain interesting cartridge design capabilities. :wink:
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by nOmArch »

paulb wrote:
I've updated the model again to take into account recent findings, and there's an STL file attached here:
cartridge.stl.zip
Because the top wall of the cartridge is actually 1mm thicker than in Dave's DXF, the board may experience a rather tight fit, but playing around with a mock PCB in OpenSCAD (and cutting some card and trying to fit it inside the first prototype) made me slightly more confident that the dimensions are closer than before, particularly the support struts which were mispositioned.
Right one mark 2 cartridge coming right up.
Alex

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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by nOmArch »

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Observations.

PCB fits really well.

Connector holes need to be a bit bigger or the male bit need to be a bit smaller.

Thicker walls all round if possible.

Came out pretty nice I think.
Alex

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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by daveejhitchins »

Alex, have the polarising arms been removed from the internal supports? I only ask as the board fits component side down in the half that has the deepest cavity! It looks as if you have it fitted component side up in both photos.

Dave H :D
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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by nOmArch »

Nope they're still there but need to be moved down about 3mm to fit the PCB.

I should of said that it fits really well apart from that. #-o
Alex

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Re: 3D Pinter Choice - Kit - For Printing Cartridges

Post by paulb »

nOmArch wrote:Nope they're still there but need to be moved down about 3mm to fit the PCB.

I should of said that it fits really well apart from that. #-o
You seem to be really efficient at cranking these things out. =D>

What are the "polarising arms" that need moving down by 3mm? Do I need to do some re-measuring?
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