Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

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iainjh
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Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by iainjh » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:25 pm

Hi

out of the blue I have received an offer of a z80 co-pro. To go on my model B. Questions are please, as I no longer have physical drives, and I'd be tempted at least to play with cis cobol on it:

a) has anyone used a z80 with a datacentre and can it load cp/m and cobol etc off the dc or a USB drive?

I've asked mark and he's never tried it, has anyone else? I'd assumed it wouldnt/ couldnt work but what do I know, has anyone tried it ?

b) I'm a little confused re z80 bbc basic. My B has os 1.20, but also has a full house of eproms. How would I load in bbc z80 basic, can it load off floppy/ also refer to question a) off a dc?

cheers for any pointers! :)

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by richardtoohey » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:11 pm

I would like a Z80 to experiment with myself, so been doing some R&D.

http://www.g7jjf.com/Acorn_Z80.htm

Sounds like the BBC BASIC has to load under CP/M, if I read the manuals correctly.

I was hoping it would just work off ROM - then I could have BBC BASIC *and* Z80 assembler or switch back to 6502 assembler when I wanted - but not as simple as that, I don't think.

Don't know re. DataCentre, but hopefully the link above gives you something useful.

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by leenew » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:15 pm

Shameless plug, but read the description :D


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370828986431? ... 1555.l2649

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by richardtoohey » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:24 pm

But to get the BASIC prompt (the 3rd screenshot in your listing) - do you have to boot off a floppy in CP/M or do anything special?

Or you turn on the Z80 and bingo you can have Z80 BBC BASIC?

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by leenew » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:24 pm

Bingo 8)

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by richardtoohey » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:26 pm

Oh, maybe it is worth 250+ quid then ... :shock:

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by leenew » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:29 pm

Who am I to say? :D
I bet you'll get it less than that Richard... go on, make a bid... you know you wanna :lol:

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by iainjh » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:50 am

"without having to load it from CP/M. " ok ta

& richard thx for the docs and files link

so basic can also be loaded from cp/m



anyone tried loading/ saving from dc?

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by richardtoohey » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:07 am

leenew wrote:I bet you'll get it less than that Richard... go on, make a bid... you know you wanna :lol:
Hmmm, not sure about this sticker is slightly loose in the corners ... puts me off the whole idea ... :lol:

Getting back on-topic - if I do get a Z80 Co-Pro I could have a look at using the DC. The DC imports .ssd images, so what format are the CP/M discs? Acorn or their own CP/M format? (the manuals say you have to use the supplied discs to prepare some others ...) If their own format, then probably not going to go into .ssd format and so won't work on DC? :?:

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by TheCorfiot » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:24 am

With my Z80 Copro

To use Z80 BBCBasic you must boot CPM first and execute BBCBASIC.COM
in fairness it is a very concise conversion with built in z80 assembler

TC :)

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by CMcDougall » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:10 pm

richardtoohey wrote:The DC imports .ssd images, so what format are the CP/M discs? Acorn or their own CP/M format? If their own format, then probably not going to go into .ssd format and so won't work on DC? :?:
It won't work with .SSDs, as they are CP/M, but the format IS supported in OmniFlop, so easy to make them in 1min.
25 Read, write, and format Acorn BBC Z80 CP/M format (400kB)
Save yourself time and £250+ by just playing it on BeebEm414, and get bored of it after 20mins :lol:
ImageImageImage

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by jgharston » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:21 pm

Curious timing, I've just emailed 8BS with an update of my Acorn CPM utilities.
The Acorn Z80 second processor can run under CP/M or BBC MOS. The supplied Acorn CP/M distribution is floppy-only, and includes the Acorn CP/M version of Z80 BBC BASIC.

23 years ago I updated Z80 BASIC to be able to use BBC file I/O instead of CP/M file I/O, and to be able to live in side ROM/RAM: [http://mdfs.net/Software/BBCBasic/BBCTube.zip]BBCTube.zip[/url]

Three years ago I created an Hard Drive CP/M BIOS so you can access CP/M drive C: as a disk image file on a hard drive: HardDrive.

I've also got a handful of various Acorn CP/M utilities.

Z80 Basic, Hard Drive BIOS and the utilities are all on the JGH CPM Utilities Disk:
JGHCPM1.zip Acorn CP/M system disk with HDBIOS preinstalled.
JGH008.ssd DFS disk.

Due to the Z80 Client ROM always looking at the floppy drive for the system files you must boot from a floppy to use load a BIOS that lets you use a hard drive. I'm currently working on being able to put the system files in a sideways ROM/RAM in the same way as ZNOS so you can boot straight into a hard-drive capable CP/M without having to boot from a floppy disk.

Addressing the specific questions:
iainjh wrote:a) has anyone used a z80 with a datacentre and can it load cp/m and cobol etc off the dc or a USB drive?
It's simple enough.

One option - that I'm doing right here as I type - is to use the Hard Drive BIOS, plug an IDE device into the DataCentre and put a hard drive image on it. For example, format the IDE device as an ADFS drive and configure the HDBIOS to use adfs::0.CPMDISK, or format the IDE device as an HADFS drive and configure the HDBIOS to use hadfs::4.CPMDISK.

Another option, which could be used at the same time, *IMPORT the CP/M disks into the RAMFS and use *DTRAP ON to divert all low-level disk access to the RAMFS disk images. I demo'd this at the Wakefield Show a couple of years ago.

So, in your situation with a DataCentre and no physical drives, you would probably best have two virtual floppies in RAMFS for drive A: and B:, and drive C: as an image file on, eg, a Compact Flash card in the IDE socket.
iainjh wrote:b) I'm a little confused re z80 bbc basic. My B has os 1.20, but also has a full house of eproms. How would I load in bbc z80 basic, can it load off floppy/ also refer to question a) off a dc?
CP/M Z80 BASIC normally loads from disk from CP/M by using the command BBCBASIC. You can also pass parameters, eg BBCBASIC HDBIOS -test. You can put the BBCBASIC.COM file on any disk, though it is best to put it in your run path. The standard DR CCP (command prompt) doesn't have a run path, so the run path is whatever drive is currently selected. The SJCCP which is on my utilities disk has a configurable run path, and I tend to set it to C15 (drive C:, user area 15).

BBC Z80 Basic can also be run from disk with Z80BASIC, but it is usually easier to use the ROM version. If BBC Z80 BASIC is in ROM then on Reset all non-Z80 ROMs have their language entry disabled, so the *BASIC command then selects Z80 BASIC. You can switch between BBC Z80 BASIC and CP/M Z80 BASIC with *BASIC and *CPM. *BASIC will load the ROM-based Z80 BASIC with BBC file I/O, *CPM will boot into CP/M from where you would then use BBCBASIC to run CP/M Z80 BASIC.

Edit: looking at the eBay listing that actually does include a BBC Z80 BASIC ROM, so you have BBC Z80 BASIC available at switch-on. You can switch to CP/M BBC BASIC by doing *CPM and running BBCBASIC.COM from disk (virtual or physical). I also noticed it's version 1.25. I updated it to 1.26 a few years ago as there was a problem starting up if an ARM CoPro was present. If you are only switching between 6502 and Z80 processors there's no problem.

I've just started putting together some advice notes about this as I've found BeebEm and B-Em sometimes don't start up the Z80 system correctly, and Chris was having a few problems getting the emulated 80186 CoPro system to boot into DOS correctly.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.32
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2020
>_

iainjh
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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by iainjh » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:34 pm

Thank you!

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by jimmy » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:51 pm

jgharston wrote:I've just started putting together some advice notes about this as I've found BeebEm and B-Em sometimes don't start up the Z80 system correctly, and Chris was having a few problems getting the emulated 80186 CoPro system to boot into DOS correctly.
Can you provide more details about what issues you see? If it can be reproduced on demand maybe we can get B-Em fixed...

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by BeebMaster » Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:11 pm

Here's the ins-and-outs of my Acorn Z80:

http://www.beebmaster.co.uk/acornz80.html

With Z80 BBC BASIC, you get 40K of RAM free!!
Image

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by jgharston » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:58 pm

jimmy wrote:
jgharston wrote:I've just started putting together some advice notes about this as I've found BeebEm and B-Em sometimes don't start up the Z80 system correctly, and Chris was having a few problems getting the emulated 80186 CoPro system to boot into DOS correctly.
Can you provide more details about what issues you see? If it can be reproduced on demand maybe we can get B-Em fixed...
There's no way to load in or specify ROM sets (there's no equivalent of BeebEm's roms.cfg file). So, even though you turn on the IDE interface, you can't tell B-Em to use an IDE filing system. You have to manually *SRLOAD one within B-Em itself, or modify the roms\mos3.20 file. It meant a lot of jumping back and forwards to get the system set up:
Settings -> Master 512
Press f12 (Break) to get to '*' prompt
Disc -> load -> HDInit.ssd
*CONFIG. NOTUBE
Ctrl-D-f12 (Ctrl-D-Break)
*SRLOAD ADFS153 8000 7
*CONFIG. TUBE
Disc -> load -> DOSBootDisk.adf
Ctrl-f12 (Ctrl-Break)

(not including initialising a blank hard drive image, and from memory)

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.32
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2020
>_

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by jgharston » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:49 pm

Following on from my post in the Matchbox CoPro thread, I'm continuing here with the Z80/DataCentre specific discussion.

I'm using the following:
* BBC Master MOS 3.20
* Acorn DFS 2.24
* IDE ADFS 1.53
* 3.5" floppy drive
* External Acorn Z80 Second Processor, Client MOS 1.20
* Acorn CP/M BIOS 1.20 (CPM1.zip)
* Acorn CP/M HDBIOS 1.23 (CPMHD.zip or JGHCPM1.zip)
* Sample CP/M hard drive disk image (HDBIOS.zip)
* Disk image manipulation tools (link)
* RAMFS diskimage tools (link)

The above are sequential disk images - the data goes all the way up one side of the disk, then all the way up the other side. They can be converted to interleaved disk images - where the data uses both sides of the disk before stepping to the next track - with tools such as SSDtoDSD (link) with, eg: CHAIN "SSDtoDSD CPM1/ssd CPM1/dsd"

Note that some of the example displays below are edited for brevity. Each section assumes you start from a normal non-DTRAPed system.

FLOPPY-ONLY CP/M
Acorn CP/M System Disk 1 copied to a physical 3.5" floppy disk with:
* CHAIN "BACKUP CPM1/ssd 0" or
* CHAIN "DiskToImg CPM1/ssd 0 400k Q1" or
* CHAIN "DiskToImg CPM1/dsd 0 400k Q0" or
* various other disk-image-to-floppy programs

Insert floppy into drive 0. *CONFIGURE TUBE, *CONFIGURE EXTUBE, Ctrl-D-Break. Boots into CP/M. Note that on the Master you need to use Ctrl-D-Break as if another filing system is selected the OSWORD &7F call does not respond properly as it tramples over filing system workspace.

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Acorn CP/M 2.2 - Bios 1.20
A>DIR
A: MOVCPM   COM : GSX      SYS : DDFXHR8  PRL : DDFXLR8  PRL
A: DDFXLR7  PRL : DDOKI84  PRL : ASSIGN   SYS : DDBBC0   PRL
(....)
A: STAR     COM : SYSGEN   COM : PIP      COM : DUMP     COM
A: LOAD     COM : DIP      COM : GENGRAF  COM : FORMPREP COM
A>
FLOPPY-ONLY CP/M USING RAMFS VIRTUAL DRIVES
The *RCOPY command supplied with the DataCentre doesn't like copying CP/M disk images, probably because side 2 does not actually have a DFS disk structure in it. Similarly, I couldn't get the *IMPORT command to work to import a CP/M disk image from a USB drive. *IMPORT 02 JGHCPM1.DSD just gives: Mounting USB, Command Failed.

So, using some RAMFS tools I wrote six years ago here:
* *RFSLoad 0 CPM1/ssd or
* *RFSLoad 02 CPM1/dsd or
* CHAIN "LoadRFS", File: CPM1/ssd, Drive: 0 or
* CHAIN "LoadRFS", File: CPM1/dsd, Drive: 02

This takes about a minute to copy the full 400K image.

Then, *CONFIGURE TUBE, *DTRAP, Ctrl-Break, boots up perfectly. I loaded various programs and they all worked, as did saving data:

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Acorn CP/M 2.2 - Bios 1.20
A>DIR
A: MOVCPM   COM : GSX      SYS : DDFXHR8  PRL : DDFXLR8  PRL
A: DDFXLR7  PRL : DDOKI84  PRL : ASSIGN   SYS : DDBBC0   PRL
(....)
A: STAR     COM : SYSGEN   COM : PIP      COM : DUMP     COM
A: LOAD     COM : DIP      COM : GENGRAF  COM : FORMPREP COM
A>
HARD DRIVE CP/M
Acorn CP/M Hard Drive System Disk copied to a physical 3.5" floppy disk with:
* CHAIN "BACKUP JGHCPM1/ssd 0" or
* CHAIN "DiskToImg JGHCPM1/ssd 0 400k Q1" or
* CHAIN "DiskToImg JGHCPM1/dsd 0 400k Q0" or
* various other disk-image-to-floppy programs
(or use CPMHD/ssd or CPMHD/dsd)

The supplied HDBIOS is configured to use a hard drive disk image file adfs::0.CPMDISK, so copy the supplied demo hard drive image from HDBIOS.zip to ADFS hard drive:
* *MOVE CPMDISK -ADFS-:0.CPMDISK

Insert floppy into drive 0. *CONFIGURE TUBE, *CONFIGURE EXTUBE, Ctrl-D-Break. Boots into CP/M. The hard drive flashes for 30-40 seconds as the allocation map is built up. This may look like it's hung, but give it some time. The hard drive is 30+ times bigger than a floppy and it takes some time for the whole directory to be scanned.

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Acorn CP/M 2.2 - HDBIOS 1.23
SJCCP version 1.40
C0>dir
C: README   TXT
C0>dir a:
A: READ     ME  : BBCBASIC ROM : BBCRUN   COM : CLS      COM
A: COLOUR   COM : DRCCP    SYS : FREE     COM : GETBDOS  COM
(....)
A: ZCPR     DOC : ZCPR     MAC : ZCPR     SYS : HDBIOS   SRC
A: HDBIOS   TXT : DRBDOS   SYS : ACBIOS   SYS : HDBIOS   SYS
A: DIRX     COM
C0>
HARD DRIVE CP/M USING RAMFS VIRTUAL DRIVES
Now let's try putting the floppy images into RAMFS drives:
* *RFSLoad 0 JGHCPM1/ssd or
* *RFSLoad 02 JGHCPM1/dsd or
* CHAIN "LoadRFS", File: JGHCPM1/ssd, Drive: 0 or
* CHAIN "LoadRFS", File: JGHCPM1/dsd, Drive: 02
(or use CPMHD/ssd or CPMHD/dsd)

Again, this takes about a minute to copy the full 400K image.

Then, *CONFIGURE TUBE, *DTRAP, Ctrl-Break, boots up perfectly. However, it boots to drive A: and drive C: is inaccessible.

Code: Select all

Acorn CP/M 2.2 - HDBIOS 1.23
SJCCP version 1.40
A0>DIR
A: READ     ME  : BBCBASIC ROM : BBCRUN   COM : CLS      COM
A: COLOUR   COM : DRCCP    SYS : FREE     COM : GETBDOS  COM
(....)
A: ZCPR     DOC : ZCPR     MAC : ZCPR     SYS : HDBIOS   SRC
A: HDBIOS   TXT : DRBDOS   SYS : ACBIOS   SYS : HDBIOS   SYS
A: DIRX     COM
A0>DIR C:
Bdos Err On C: Select
SJCCP version 1.40
A0>C:
Bdos Err On C: Select
SJCCP version 1.40
A0>*ADFS
Bad command
A0>*NET
Bad command
A0>*HELP
Z80 TUBE 1.20
OS 3.20
TERMINAL 1.20
RetroClinic RamFS 1.00
A0>*| above edited for brevity
It turns out that DTRAP turns off access to all other filing systems meaning that the hard drive at adfs::0.CPMDISK is inaccessible.

So, at the moment, you can use a hard drive with CP/M with the DataCentre, but only if you use physical floppy disks and not RAMFS virtual disks.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.32
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2020
>_

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hoglet
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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by hoglet » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:17 pm

Thanks for posting this - I'll try the hard drive again booting HDBIOS from floppy and be more patient....
[quote=jgharston]
Similarly, I couldn't get the *IMPORT command to work to import a CP/M disk image from a USB drive. *IMPORT 02 JGHCPM1.DSD just gives: Mounting USB, Command Failed.
[/quote]
I think the syntax is:

Code: Select all

*IMPORT -02 JGHCPM1.DSD
i.e. there is a '-' that is significant.

Dave

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by jgharston » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:43 pm

hoglet wrote:Thanks for posting this - I'll try the hard drive again booting HDBIOS from floppy and be more patient....
jgharston wrote:Similarly, I couldn't get the *IMPORT command to work to import a CP/M disk image from a USB drive. *IMPORT 02 JGHCPM1.DSD just gives: Mounting USB, Command Failed.
I think the syntax is:

Code: Select all

*IMPORT -02 JGHCPM1.DSD
i.e. there is a '-' that is significant.
Ah ha! That worked.

I've just spent the last 20 minutes trying to use my Canon IXUS 500 as a video camera to film what I'm doing, but have ended up with five minutes of the inside of a cat.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.32
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2020
>_

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by jgharston » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:10 pm

Ah ha. If we have DTRAP turned off and intercept OSWORD &7F (disk access) and redirect it to OSWORD &77 (RAMFS access), then we can have CP/M virtual floppies in RAMFS and hard drive access.

Create a 7Fto77 command with this program:

Code: Select all

   10 REM > 7Fto77/src
   20 REM Divert OSWORD &7F to OSWORD &77
   30 :
   40 WORDV=&20C
   50 load%=&FFFF24E0
   60 DIM mcode% &100
   70 FOR P=0 TO 1
   80   P%=load%:O%=mcode%
   90   [OPT P*3+4
  100   .exec%
  110   LDA WORDV+0:STA old+1
  120   LDA WORDV+1:STA old+2
  130   LDA #new AND 255:STA WORDV+0
  140   LDA #new DIV 256:STA WORDV+1
  150   RTS
  160   .new
  170   CMP #&7F:BNE old:LDA #&77
  180   .old
  190   JMP &FFFF
  200   :]NEXT
  210 PRINT"*SAVE 7Fto77 ";~mcode%;" ";~O%;" ";~exec% OR &FFFF0000;" ";~load% OR &FFFF0000
Save 7Fto77 somewhere convenient, such as in the same directory as your CPMDISK hard drive image.

Then, after turning on your Z80 CoPro do a Soft Break - not Ctrl-Break - to get to the * prompt. Then do *77to7F and *CPM and you will boot from the CP/M system disk in RAMFS drive 0, and you will have your hard drive image as drive C:.

I'll have a think about how to make this a bit more convenient.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.32
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2020
>_

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by jgharston » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:20 pm

jgharston wrote:I'll have a think about how to make this a bit more convenient.
And of course, you can always just *UNPLUG the DFS ROM, and the OSWORD &7F call will just get picked up by RAMFS instead.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.32
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2020
>_

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by lurkio » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:44 pm

hoglet wrote:To boot from the RAM drive, all I had to do was:

Code: Select all

*IMPORT -02 CPM1.DSD
*DTRAP ON
Ctrl-Break
This is on a Master 128. CPM1.DSD came from Jon Welch's site here: here
I think it's important to use an interleaved DSD file. The SSD CMP files on JGH's site are not directly compatible with DataCenter's import command. This is using: RAMFS 1.00 and DFS 2.24 (this is a what's included in the Master)
I have the same setup. I replicated what you did, as you've described it. I can't boot into CPM. My system just hangs on "Insert system disc into drive A" when I press Ctrl+BREAK. I'm using the same interleaved CPM disc image that you are (if what you meant was that the "cpm1.DSD" that you downloaded from Jon Welch's site is already interleaved).
jgharston wrote: FLOPPY-ONLY CP/M USING RAMFS VIRTUAL DRIVES
The *RCOPY command supplied with the DataCentre doesn't like copying CP/M disk images, probably because side 2 does not actually have a DFS disk structure in it. Similarly, I couldn't get the *IMPORT command to work to import a CP/M disk image from a USB drive. *IMPORT 02 JGHCPM1.DSD just gives: Mounting USB, Command Failed. So, using some RAMFS tools I wrote six years ago here:
* *RFSLoad 0 CPM1/ssd or
* *RFSLoad 02 CPM1/dsd or
* CHAIN "LoadRFS", File: CPM1/ssd, Drive: 0 or
* CHAIN "LoadRFS", File: CPM1/dsd, Drive: 02

This takes about a minute to copy the full 400K image.

Then, *CONFIGURE TUBE, *DTRAP, Ctrl-Break, boots up perfectly.
I'll try this next.

EDIT: I just realised I don't think I can use your RFS tools, JGH, because I don't have anywhere to put the disc image file in the first place. I assume your programs want to read in the .SSD or .DSD file that contains the CPM system disc.

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by jgharston » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:40 am

jgharston wrote:
jgharston wrote:I'll have a think about how to make this a bit more convenient.
And of course, you can always just *UNPLUG the DFS ROM, and the OSWORD &7F call will just get picked up by RAMFS instead.
Actually, that won't work, as I was using a patched version of the RAMFS ROM that NOP's out the "ignore OSWORD &7F if DTRAP not set" branch.
lurkio wrote:
hoglet wrote:To boot from the RAM drive, all I had to do was:

Code: Select all

*IMPORT -02 CPM1.DSD
*DTRAP ON
Ctrl-Break
I have the same setup. I replicated what you did, as you've described it. I can't boot into CPM. My system just hangs on "Insert system disc into drive A" when I press Ctrl+BREAK.
Are you using *DTRAP to redirect floppy access to RAMFS? I've just repeated Hoglet's instructions here:
*IMPORT -02 CPM1.DSD
*DTRAP
Ctrl-D-Break
chug chug chug
Acorn CP/M 2.2 - Bios 1.20
A>
lurkio wrote:EDIT: I just realised I don't think I can use your RFS tools, JGH, because I don't have anywhere to put the disc image file in the first place. I assume your programs want to read in the .SSD or .DSD file that contains the CPM system disc.
Yes, problematic. You could put them on a USB drive, but RAMFS only supports LOAD and SAVE to the USB drive, you can't OPENIN a file which is needed to copy a disk image. However, if you've got an interleaved image another poster pointed out that the correct syntax of *IMPORT -02 JGHCPM1.DSD works, so as long as you have a DSD image you should be ok.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.32
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2020
>_

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by lurkio » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:51 am

jgharston wrote:Are you using *DTRAP to redirect floppy access to RAMFS?
Yes.
jgharston wrote:I've just repeated Hoglet's instructions here:
*IMPORT -02 CPM1.DSD
*DTRAP
Ctrl-D-Break
chug chug chug
Acorn CP/M 2.2 - Bios 1.20
A>
When I do that (pressing Ctrl-D-Break as specified), I get the messages "Insert CP/M System disc in drive A" and, below it, "Not a CP/M System disc". If I then try to do a *. then I get "Channel". All subsequent *commands give "Fatal error".

If I then press Ctrl-Break or Ctrl-D-Break, I get only "Insert CP/M System disc in drive A" (without the message "Not a CP/M System disc").
jgharston wrote:if you've got an interleaved image another poster pointed out that the correct syntax of *IMPORT -02 JGHCPM1.DSD works, so as long as you have a DSD image you should be ok.
I tried that, using the disc-image in the JGHCPM1.zip file you linked to (which, by the way, contains an image file named JGHCPM1.SSD even though it's actually 400K DSD image!) but the same thing happens as before ("Insert CP/M System disc in drive A" and "Not a CP/M System disc") except that this time when I do a *. I get garbage text: specifically, the character Ä followed by a space, followed by the white square that looks like the char that usually represents CHR$255, followed by a vertical bar. See attached photo.
photo.jpg
Screenshot of Z80 copro + DC weirdness

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by hoglet » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:00 am

Lurkio,

Hmmm, I see why this has been driving you mad.... :shock:

Can you confirm that your Z80 Co Pro works correctly when booted from floppy, and that it's 100% stable when used in this way?

Could you do a *ROMs and post a picture of the output.

Your Z80 has the 1.20 client ROM. JGH: What were the bugs that 1.21 fixes?

Many thanks,

Dave

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by lurkio » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:21 am

hoglet wrote:Hmmm, I see why this has been driving you mad.... :shock:
You're not wrong! :-? :evil:
hoglet wrote:Can you confirm that your Z80 Co Pro works correctly when booted from floppy, and that it's 100% stable when used in this way?
Yes. Everything works as expected from floppy. See the following screenshot, taken just now, and my thread about the Z80 copro + DC + Zork.
photo 1.jpg
Screenshot 1
hoglet wrote:Could you do a *ROMs and post a picture of the output.
Here you go, screenshots taken just now:
photo 2.jpg
Screenshot 2
photo 3.jpg
Screenshot 3
hoglet wrote:Your Z80 has the 1.20 client ROM. JGH: What were the bugs that 1.21 fixes?
Are you all using v1.21 then?
Last edited by lurkio on Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by hoglet » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:34 pm

lurkio wrote:
hoglet wrote:Your Z80 has the 1.20 client ROM. JGH: What were the bugs that 1.21 fixes?
Are you all using v1.21 then?
1.21 is what's used in the Matchbox Co Pro.

I think JGH has a real Z80, and that's using 1.20 still (????)

Here's what JGH said about the 1.21 fixes:

Z80 Tube Client v1.21:
* Fixed broken EXECUTE code: only matches ROM type byte 8 instead of 8-15, and enters raw code with a balanced stack.
* OSWORD 5, 14 and 15 have the correct control block lengths
* Errors have the correct error number
* Version string is "1.21"

I'm not sure whether any

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by jgharston » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:36 pm

Another day on standby waiting by the phone. Ok, let's get CP/M working on a system with no physical floppy drives.

Assumptions:
* A computer with an internet connection and an USB port
* A BBC or Master with a DataCentre and RAMFS.
* No other storage assumed - no hard drive, no physical floppy drives

Start by fetching the Acorn CP/M System Disk 1 from John Welch's archive. Let's also fetch Cave as well to have something to play with.

Extract the CPM1.DSD and CAVE.DSD disk images from the ZIP files and save them to a removable USB drive. Remove the USB drive and plug into DataCentre.

On the BBC or Master, we now do:
*RAM to select RAMFS
*DRIVE 5 to select the USB drive
*CAT
see that CPM1.DSD and CAVE.DSD are present
*IMPORT -02 CPM1.DSD
*IMPORT -13 CAVE.DSD
*CONFIGURE TUBE or switch Tube power on
*DTRAP
Ctrl-Break

Boots into CP/M:

Code: Select all

Acorn CP/M 2.2 - Bios 1.20
A>DIR
A: MOVCPM  COM : GSX     SYS : DDFXHR8 PRL : DDFXLR8 PRL
etc...
A>B:
B:>DIR
B: ADVENT1 ADV : ADVENT1 DAT : ADVENT2 DAT : ADVENT3 DAT
B: ADVENT4 DAT : ADVENT5 DAT : ADVENT6 DAT : ADVENT  COM
B: ADVSAVE DOC : CLS     COM : EADVENT COM : SAVEADV COM
B>ADVENT
Go read a book while I get my act together...
Welcome to adventure! Would you like instructions?
>
The thread originally started by asking how to have hard drive access from CP/M with the DataCentre. The problem we're going to have is getting the CP/M hard drive image into your hard drive, and later getting CP/M to access it. We've seen above that *DTRAP turns off the filing systems needed to access a hard drive. I'll work on this and post something later, and I'll also download Zork and have a play with that as well.
lurkio wrote:
jgharston wrote:if you've got an interleaved image another poster pointed out that the correct syntax of *IMPORT -02 JGHCPM1.DSD works, so as long as you have a DSD image you should be ok.
I tried that, using the disc-image in the JGHCPM1.zip file you linked to (which, by the way, contains an image file named JGHCPM1.SSD even though it's actually 400K DSD image!)
No, it's an SSD (sequential tracks) disk image, that's why it has an SSD extension. It's definitely not a DSD (interleaved tracks) disk image, if it was it would have a DSD extension. *IMPORT only understands interleaved disk images, if you try to use *IMPORT with a sequential disk image you will get problems. *RFSLoad and LoadRFS understands double-sided sequential disk images, but they load from a filing system, not from the USB drive.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.32
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2020
>_

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by lurkio » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:17 pm

jgharston wrote: On the BBC or Master, we now do:
*RAM to select RAMFS
*DRIVE 5 to select the USB drive
*CAT
see that CPM1.DSD and CAVE.DSD are present
*IMPORT -02 CPM1.DSD
*IMPORT -13 CAVE.DSD
*CONFIGURE TUBE or switch Tube power on
*DTRAP
Ctrl-Break
I've tried that many times -- today, yesterday, and on previous occasions (albeit without bothering with CAVE.DSD). I always get the results I described above. (To be precise, when I press just Ctrl-Break, I only get the first error message, "Insert CP/M System disc in drive A". If I press Ctrl-D-Break instead, then I get both the first error message and the second: "Not a CP/M System disc".)

Which Z80 copro are you using? The matchbox or the Acorn? Which client ROM version?

I'm using an Acorn Z80 with the 1.20 client ROM. Is that adequate?
jgharston wrote:
lurkio wrote:I tried that, using the disc-image in the JGHCPM1.zip file you linked to (which, by the way, contains an image file named JGHCPM1.SSD even though it's actually 400K DSD image!)
No, it's an SSD (sequential tracks) disk image, that's why it has an SSD extension.
Ah. In that case, I don't know where to find the DSD image you refer to here:
jgharston wrote:if you've got an interleaved image another poster pointed out that the correct syntax of *IMPORT -02 JGHCPM1.DSD works, so as long as you have a DSD image you should be ok.

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Re: Z80 co-pro, and datacentre?

Post by hoglet » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:59 pm

Lurkio,

I'm racking my brains to see what's different in your configuration to mine.

It's just possible the issues are caused by the 1.20 client ROM. Maybe JGH could confirm what version he is using in the real Z80 Second Processor.

I noticed you have a couple of additional versions of ADFS in ROM slots 4 and 5. One of these is version 1.33, which is a IDE patched version for the Model B. Is it possible to physically remove this ROM?

Dave

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