Fitting slogger turbo driver

discuss both original and modern hardware for the bbc micro/electron
User avatar
Slo
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Worksop Notts
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by Slo » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:13 pm

I'm in worksop notts kenlowe cheers =D> i'll paypal you some readies sending you a pm

EDIT ~
I've just discovered that my monitor cable is faulty as the screen went blue and flickered when jiggling it about, i've just swapped it for another cable and the screen is rock solid again #-o bloody mysterious coincidence that is but it seems to be fine now other than having built in central heating

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 7955
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:51 pm
Location: Manchester
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by danielj » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:54 am

That's the right file, yes! :)

d.

User avatar
daveejhitchins
Posts: 5494
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:23 pm
Location: Newton Aycliffe, County Durham
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by daveejhitchins » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:09 am

Yes, AlanD's file is the correct one . . . If you haven't already removed your 6502 (?) I'd recommend a Low Profile 40 pin turned pin socket. You only gain 1mm but it ensures the board and components don't clash with the keyboard. I stock them just for this purpose - If you want one they're cost plus Postage.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

User avatar
KenLowe
Posts: 1113
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:35 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by KenLowe » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:52 pm

Sent a couple of GAL16V8s to @slo, but they're not working correctly for some reason. The first time, I just took the jed file from the other thread and flashed it directly onto the GAL. The second time, I took the equation files and ran them through eqn2jed.exe to create the jed file, then flashed that onto the GAL. This is the equation file I'm using:

Code: Select all

; JED2EQN -- JEDEC file to Boolean Equations disassembler (Version V063)
; Copyright (c) National Semiconductor Corporation 1990-1993

chip Slogger GAL16V8

romoein=1 upa15=2 upa14=3 upa13=4 turbo=5 phiout=6 upRnW=7 ipirq=8 
upnmi=9 GND=10 upphiin=11 uprdy=12 ramp1=13 ramnoe=14 ramnwe=15 
ulaa15=16 ulaa14=17 ramce2=18 romoeout=19 VCC=20 

equations

romoeout = /upa15 * /upa14 * /upa13 * /turbo
    + romoein

ramce2 = /upa15 * /upa14 * /upa13 * /turbo

ulaa14 = /upa15 * /upa14 * /upa13 * /turbo
    + upa14

ulaa15 = /upa15 * /upa14 * /upa13 * /turbo
    + upa15

ramnwe = upRnW

ramnoe = turbo
    + upa13
    + upa14
    + upa15

ramp1 = uprdy
    + phiout
    + ipirq
    + upnmi
    + upphiin
Can anyone see what I'm doing wrong? Do I need to invert the outputs by any chance?

User avatar
Slo
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Worksop Notts
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by Slo » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:07 pm

As Ken says he's sent me 2 GAL's twice...

The FIRST pair, when the switch is in the turbo position with the PAL in, with the GAL in the machine just runs as if the turbo wasn't even there.
When the switch is in the normal position with the PAL in, with the GAL in the machine just hangs ctrl+break does nothing.

The SECOND pair is pretty much the same except if I just touch the power jack in the socket so I can insert and remove it quickly :wink: in the normal position With the PAL in but with the GAL in I can sometimes get the machine to boot to a prompt albeit with crap all over the screen, then I can quickly boot a disk with the test program on it before the machine hangs, then as before ctrl+break does nothing. The test program is reporting that it is at least working in turbo mode with a result of 16/17/18.

User avatar
Slo
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Worksop Notts
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by Slo » Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:33 am

Still getting no joy with this, i've bought myself a tl866a programmer now and even a tl866II plus as well and still same results

With the switch in the turbo position (with the pal in) the elk works as normal with the gal in, switched the other way the machine hangs.

So it can only be one of three things, either....

1. Both Ken and me are doing it wrong which I don't see how, Ken for sure

2. It's an elk issue as this is an issue 4 machine (pal works fine), i've got another to try out though, no idea what issue yet

3. That .JED file is wrong, however i've tried messing around with the .PLD file in wincupl and compiled various times and none work, with the gal unencrypted you can see (in the programmer software) that the stored code matches the lines in the jed file and we've both tried encrypted and unencrypted.

Monday i'm posting my pal chip to Ken as he might be able to read it and compare results, in the meantime I will dig out my other elk and fit my other turbo board so I can try a gal in that one.

Are there any more members that have fitted a gal instead? Got to be more than 3 or 4 of us surely? ](*,)

User avatar
Elminster
Posts: 4055
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:09 am
Location: Essex, UK
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by Elminster » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:29 am

Hmmm. I had two slogger turbo’s in two electrons. Don’t remember changing anything though, but I pulled both those boards and fitted Prime’s improved MRB instead.

Never had any issues with the turbo boards that I remember, in a box somewhere.

Edit: Although one of my Electron’s play up after I warms up and the video output how mad, but suspect for that is ula or video rather than MRB.
Last edited by Elminster on Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
KenLowe
Posts: 1113
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:35 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by KenLowe » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:18 am

I'm clean out of ideas. Once I get the PAL I'll do the same as I did with my IntegraB PALs. I'll wire it up as an EPROM, read the EPROM, decode the data, generate the equations and compare with what was posted earlier. I'm hoping it will be different!

User avatar
daveejhitchins
Posts: 5494
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:23 pm
Location: Newton Aycliffe, County Durham
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by daveejhitchins » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:45 am

Ken . . .

I could test the Turbo board out for you? At least then you'd know if it was the board or your Elk playing-up! I have a box full of Turbo boards . . .

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

User avatar
KenLowe
Posts: 1113
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:35 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by KenLowe » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:33 am

Hi Dave. Thanks for the offer, but I don't actually have a board. I was only trying to help Slo with programming a GAL to replace his overheating PAL. He's going to send me his PAL tomorrow, so I can go back to first principles, and actually generate my own equations, instead of relying on the ones posted on the other thread (here). These (and the associated .jed files that were also posted) are the ones that neither myself or Slo can get working.

If it's any relevance I'm using the Lattice GALs and not the ATMEL ones, as my programmer doesn't support the ATMEL GALs (even though the literature suggests that it does).
Last edited by KenLowe on Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Slo
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Worksop Notts
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by Slo » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:21 pm

Sods law has kicked in and its another issue 4, I havent had time to finish the board off yet as i've been busy.

Dave the board is mine and it works fine with its original pal, i'm just trying to turn the heating down with a gal.
Last edited by Slo on Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
daveejhitchins
Posts: 5494
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:23 pm
Location: Newton Aycliffe, County Durham
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by daveejhitchins » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:44 pm

Hmmm! I've programmed quit a few and haven't seen any issues - very strange. Let me know I can do anything to help.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

User avatar
Slo
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Worksop Notts
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by Slo » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:55 pm

Right, got the board finished and all installed exactly the same as the other machine following Daniel's great instructions annnnnnnnnnnnd

It's exactly the same as the other one, works fine with the pal and only works at normal speed with the switch the opposite way otherwise it just hangs.

So a bag of chips on its way to Ken sometime tomorrow.

Dave if Ken has no luck can you do me two please or I can send you a couple to do for me i'll send some doritos.

And failing that I don't know what to do then.

User avatar
daveejhitchins
Posts: 5494
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:23 pm
Location: Newton Aycliffe, County Durham
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by daveejhitchins » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:41 am

Slo wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:55 pm
Dave if Ken has no luck can you do me two please or I can send you a couple to do for me i'll send some doritos.
I could also test them before sending - Or i could just send you a working Turbo board . . . ?

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

User avatar
KenLowe
Posts: 1113
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:35 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by KenLowe » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:53 am

Slo wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:55 pm
So a bag of chips on its way to Ken sometime tomorrow.
Once I get the PAL decoded I can hopefully shed some light on what's going wrong!
Slo wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:55 pm
And failing that I don't know what to do then.
I usually find that a big hammer helps at this point.
Last edited by KenLowe on Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Slo
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Worksop Notts
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by Slo » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:59 am

daveejhitchins wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:41 am
Slo wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:55 pm
Dave if Ken has no luck can you do me two please or I can send you a couple to do for me i'll send some doritos.
I could also test them before sending - Or i could just send you a working Turbo board . . . ?

Dave H :D
Dave will that be with a GAL in it or PAL? How much?

Can you believe that royal snail have gone and lost the envelope, sent it first class recorded too and I can't even claim anything (other than the original postage) as I have no proof what was in the envelope the cheeky b******s.

User avatar
KenLowe
Posts: 1113
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:35 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by KenLowe » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:37 am

I'm still hopeful that it will arrive. I've seen things arrive quicker from China than from some places in the UK!!!

User avatar
Elminster
Posts: 4055
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:09 am
Location: Essex, UK
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by Elminster » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:51 am

KenLowe wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:37 am
I'm still hopeful that it will arrive. I've seen things arrive quicker from China than from some places in the UK!!!
Always a bit random from days to months. Sometimes even from the same supplier.

User avatar
CMcDougall
Posts: 7032
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Shadow in a Valley of Scotland
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by CMcDougall » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:02 pm

^ depends on when the cargo ship sails, so if they catch day before bonus
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Elminster
Posts: 4055
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:09 am
Location: Essex, UK
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by Elminster » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:38 pm

CMcDougall wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:02 pm
^ depends on when the cargo ship sails, so if they catch day before bonus
Cargo ships take ages. Any luck it will be air mail. We send boxes via Cargo ship can take anything from 1 month to 3 months. (When they arrive)

User avatar
daveejhitchins
Posts: 5494
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:23 pm
Location: Newton Aycliffe, County Durham
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by daveejhitchins » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:23 pm

Slo wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:59 am
Dave will that be with a GAL in it or PAL? How much?
The would be a GAL.

Just the GAL £1.05 + P&P

I'd want to build and test first - let me know. Or, just let me know what you need . . .
Original Slogger board £10.00
6502 £1.30
GAL £1.05
Set of pins £2.20
Build and test FOC :D
P&P - TBA

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

User avatar
Slo
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Worksop Notts
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by Slo » Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:16 pm

Dave would you mind if i post you my boards and you program my two gals and test them, i can rule out the issue 4 board being the problem if it works then, happy to pay labour and time costs thanks.

Has anyone got their old pal they can send me to replace my lost one otherwise this board is useless to me without one.
Last edited by Slo on Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
daveejhitchins
Posts: 5494
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:23 pm
Location: Newton Aycliffe, County Durham
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by daveejhitchins » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:55 pm

Slo wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:16 pm
Dave would you mind if i post you my boards and you program my two gals and test them, i can rule out the issue 4 board being the problem if it works then, happy to pay labour and time costs thanks.

Has anyone got their old pal they can send me to replace my lost one otherwise this board is useless to me without one.
PM sent . . .

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

User avatar
KenLowe
Posts: 1113
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:35 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by KenLowe » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:08 pm

Right. The PAL which Slo posted to me eventually arrived and I've been able to stick it in my programmer and read it as a 2716 EPROM. From that I've been able to generate equations, compile these and program them back into a new GAL. I then read this new GAL as a 2716 EPROM and compared against the version I read from the PAL. Both matched :). Slo has subsequently confirmed it working in his Slogger.

I don't understand how the jed file in the other thread could have worked for anyone :-? :-? :-?

Anyway, here's the equations I used. I've used the same pin labels as was detailed in the other thread:

Code: Select all

; JED2EQN -- JEDEC file to Boolean Equations disassembler (Version V063)
; Copyright (c) National Semiconductor Corporation 1990-1993

chip Slogger GAL16V8

romoein=1 upa15=2 upa14=3 upa13=4 turbo=5 phiout=6 upRnW=7 ipirq=8 
upnmi=9 GND=10 upphiin=11 uprdy=12 ramp1=13 ramnoe=14 ramnwe=15 
ulaa15=16 ulaa14=17 ramce2=18 romoeout=19 VCC=20 

equations

romoeout = /upa15 * /upa14 * /upa13 * turbo
          + romoein

ramce2 = /upa15 * /upa14 * /upa13 * turbo

ulaa14 = /upa15 * /upa14 * /upa13 * turbo
        + upa14
	
ulaa15 = /upa15 * /upa14 * /upa13 * turbo
        + upa15

ramnwe =  upRnW
	+ phiout

ramnoe = /upRnW

ramp1 = /uprdy
       + uprdy
       + ipirq
       + upnmi
       + upphiin
I've also attached two files:

1. SloggerTurbo.zip
This contains a copy of the .eqn file and associated compiled .jed file that can be used directly in a programmer.

2. SloggerPAL.zip
This contains an excel spreadsheet with a copy of the dumped PAL contents, decoded into individual bit. With appropriate filtering, this is what I used to help generate the equations.

Edit 1: Added the Excel spreadsheet (SloggerPAL.zip) to the attachments
Edit 2: Minor adjustment to the ramnwe equation (removed redundant /upRnW term)
Attachments
SloggerTurbo.zip
(678 Bytes) Downloaded 6 times
SloggerPAL.zip
(118.1 KiB) Downloaded 6 times
Last edited by KenLowe on Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:26 am, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Slo
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Worksop Notts
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by Slo » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:37 pm

Yes confirmed working in both machines and no hangs although ive no time to soak test it until tonight.

Dave H this has made it uneccessary to send my board as its working fine with the gal programmed with this new jed file but everything else iasked you about id still like please.

Ken Lowe thanks a million for your time patience and help. Bloody royal mail though 5 days.

User avatar
Elminster
Posts: 4055
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:09 am
Location: Essex, UK
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by Elminster » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:51 pm

Did you measure before and after temperatures?

User avatar
Slo
Posts: 420
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Worksop Notts
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by Slo » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:36 pm

Only a quick knock up and test as im trying to paint a car while ive got the daylight and warmth 😀

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 7955
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:51 pm
Location: Manchester
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by danielj » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:04 pm

Well done!!! :D :D

So odd - I wonder if there's more than one version of the turbo driver PCB as those original equations worked perfectly in mine?

d.

User avatar
KenLowe
Posts: 1113
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:35 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by KenLowe » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:15 pm

Odd indeed. I asked Slo the same question about board revisions. He said that his board looks exactly the same as the one you posted a photo of.

It would be worth someone else trying the jed file I've posted. Particularly someone who's had success with the older jed file.

User avatar
1024MAK
Posts: 9904
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:46 pm
Location: Looking forward to summer in Somerset, UK...
Contact:

Re: Fitting slogger turbo driver

Post by 1024MAK » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:38 pm

danielj wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:04 pm
So odd - I wonder if there's more than one version of the turbo driver PCB as those original equations worked perfectly in mine?
Well, as there are at least two versions of the Slogger Click PCB, and at least two versions of the Slogger Pegasus PCB, it's entirely possible...

Mark

Post Reply

Return to “8-bit acorn hardware”