Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

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MartinB
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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by MartinB » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:38 pm

Dave wrote:Made the measurements: 2.2" - Remember the boards were all Imperial in those days - Metric 55.88 - So you weren't far out with your 55.8 Martin! - DH :D
Hmmm.... :-k
Martin wrote:I specified 56mm and the 'correct' width is actually about 56.8mm (I think) so the delta is frustratingly small.
I think you just confirmed my original measurement then? The connector tongue on my boards is 56mm which has turned out to be just less than a millimetre too narrow. Unless of course, your findings support my theory that some products use the gadget case to manage the fine connector alignment?

Care to measure yet again :wink:

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AlanD
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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by AlanD » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:38 pm

Hello Martin

on my Disk cartridge the edge connector was a touch on the narrow side
see attached for the actual dimensions i used

ide cart elk.png
ide cart elk.png (59.24 KiB) Viewed 2029 times
AlanD

Edit :- i actually just measured a board i have and it is 56.6 mm and quite a good fit

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MartinB
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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by MartinB » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:06 pm

Cheers for that Alan :D. I thought you'd made a cartridge port-based board but I wasn't certain. So, 56.6mm sounds about right then - I was guessing at 56.8mm based on my 56mm plus the epoxy shim I've applied.

I wonder if there are any drawings around that give the definitive measurement :-k

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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by daveejhitchins » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:52 pm

MartinB wrote:Care to measure yet again :wink:
Martin:
Didn't measure! Forgot to take a board with me, must stop rushing in the morning :D . However, I counted the connectors (0.1" spacing) and allowed 0.05" at each end. Which seemed reasonable at the time!

I've now made a few measurements, as follows:

Cartridge connector measurements.
ROM Cartridge 56.24mm
AP3 56.52mm, 56.97mm
ABR 56.34mm, 56.26mm

Sockets:
Electron, 57.15mm, 57.2mm, 57.25mm, 57.3
Master, 56.9mm, 56.9mm
Jukebox, 57.36

I noticed that the connectors in the Master were of a different type to those used in the Electron, The ones in the Master were a single moulding whereas the Electron ones (well the two I have - 1 x P.R.E.S. version and 1 x Acorn version - Jukebox uses the same as the Plus 1) had 'end' caps. This may be the reason for the slightly different dimensions.

56.8mm may be a little tight for the Master so I'll be using 56.5mm. Not much difference I know. we'll see how it goes for the first prototypes.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by MartinB » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:50 am

Thanks Dave. There's quite a range of numbers in those :roll:

Looks like for getting it right first time then I had two chances - Slim and Fat :wink:

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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by MartinB » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:48 pm

I've pretty much finished all the EUP testing now and having sorted the connector 'play', apart from the previously discussed battery backup not being viable, everything looks fine :D

To show off the new EUP capability, I thought I'd try and configure a Beeb User Port peripheral to function on the Elk. So, I jumped in at the deep end and had a go at running Watford Electronics Video Digitiser :shock:. To get a basic demo running, the software wasn't too difficult, just a case of working through the rom and identifying all Beeb User VIA access and converting to EUP addresses. The Beeb User VIA resides at $FE60-$FE6F and the Elk EUP lives at $FCB0-$FCBF. Hardware-wise, simply plug the peripheral into the right-hand EUP connector (Port B) and away we go!

I confess that I've never used this device before even on a Beeb so I haven't tried any optimising but essentially, what you can see below is the Elk digitising an image of itself digitising an image of itself digitising...=D> :D
EUP1.PNG
EUP1.PNG (301.19 KiB) Viewed 1937 times
EUP2.PNG
EUP2.PNG (299.78 KiB) Viewed 1937 times
EUP3.PNG
EUP3.PNG (242.83 KiB) Viewed 1937 times

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paulv
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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by paulv » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:55 pm

There is only one thing to say to that...

VERY COOL =D> =D> =D>

Paul

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leenew
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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by leenew » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:59 pm

That deserves a =D>
In fact it deserves =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by daveejhitchins » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:12 am

leenew wrote:That deserves a =D>
In fact it deserves =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
I agree, well done Martin . . . =D>

Dave H :D

p.s. So, when are the boards going out :D :D :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by aerworuld » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:06 am

Wowsers! Nice one Martin :D

Very cool bananas I would say!!

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danielj
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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by danielj » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:25 am

=D> =D> and a bit more =D>

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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by CanonMan » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:34 am

Good work Martin =D>

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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by Advance » Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:18 pm

Very cool bananas I would say!!
Don't know about cool bananas but I do wish you would stop Fyffeing around making movies and get back on the job in hand. :wink:
H.

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MartinB
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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by MartinB » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:29 pm

Advance wrote:...I do wish you would stop Fyffeing around making movies and get back on the job in hand. :wink:
Sorry Hugh, I was just milking the curtain calls but I guess the honeymoon's over then. The WE Digitiser was just a spot of attention seeking coz the EUP debut video co-starring UPURS didn't seem to attract much attention :wink:

Thanks everyone for the encouragement, it was quite pleasing to be able to get a Beeb gadget working on the Elk with relatively little effort.
Dave H wrote:p.s. So, when are the boards going out :D
I shall return later with details of the big board share-out :D

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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by MartinB » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:26 pm

So, the boards then....

Firstly and to save you reading on if you're broke, the PCB's are going to be £10 delivered. I paid just short of £8 for them and they were dearer than say BeebSID because they're bigger and, more significantly, the EUP boards have the gold-plated edge connector. (I went for gold plating in the end because after canvassing opinions on here, I would never have heard the end of it if anyone subsequently suffered tarnishing :roll:.) On top of the £8 I'm going to buy some new padded envelopes because re-cycling old ones is painful and then there'll be the postage.

Basically then, if you fancy one, PM me with an email address, I'll reply via email and we can exchange details from there. PayPal is my preferred payment method but please note that I'll ask you to 'gift' the money to avoid PP fees. There's no profit in the tenner and I certainly don't want to lose a chunk to PayPal [-X (If you’re not familiar with PP gifting I’ll explain via email.)

What do you get for your tenner? A bare PCB.

What does it do once assembled? The completed board plugs into one of the slots in a Plus 1 or Rombox/Rombox+ and…

(1) Adds a 6522 VIA giving the Elk two eight-bit User Ports, each having the identical interface specification to the Beeb & Master User Port. The 6522 clock support circuitry is enhanced to ensure that the VIA timing is immune to Elk clock-stretching thus ensuring maximum compatibility with Beeb/Master peripherals.
(2) Incorporates an UPURS interface so that you can take advantage of this famous integrated disc & rom image transfer suite and the ground-breaking UPCFS ‘direct-play’ system :D
(3) Adds a single rom socket which allows the use of 8, 16 and 32K rom & ram chips. If a 32K rom or ram chip is used (e.g. 27256 or 62256), the socket will respond as two 16K devices – Elk OS rom id’s 0/1 or 2/3 depending on Plus 1 slot in use.

(On-board battery backup support for ram chips is included but initial testing has shown that the ram contents tend to corrupt at power cycle and hence I suggest that these components are left off for the time being.)

Some pics…

A pile of boards ready for the off with the epoxy shim already added.
EUP PCB Pile.PNG
EUP PCB Pile.PNG (311.73 KiB) Viewed 1821 times
An assembled board is shown below. The empty socket at IC8 is a development spare and can be left off as can the battery holder and battery support components, R4, D3 and D4. A wire link should be fitted in place of D3.
EUP complete front.PNG
EUP complete front.PNG (278.54 KiB) Viewed 1821 times
EUP complete back.PNG
EUP complete back.PNG (285.58 KiB) Viewed 1821 times
As a point of interest regarding the connectors, the type I used for the UPURS port is shown below. This type takes advantage of solder strain-relief which I have provisioned for on the PCB and thus avoids the need for nuts & bolts. The 20-way User Port connectors don’t normally require strain relief but fixing holes are present on the PCB for these if you feel you are very heavy-handed :wink:
EUP UPURS connector.PNG
EUP UPURS connector.PNG (226.05 KiB) Viewed 1821 times
EUP Connector fitting holes.PNG
EUP Connector fitting holes.PNG (269.18 KiB) Viewed 1821 times
EUP UPURS connector fitting.PNG
EUP UPURS connector fitting.PNG (265.42 KiB) Viewed 1821 times
EUP User Port connector.PNG
EUP User Port connector.PNG (221 KiB) Viewed 1821 times
Sorry, but I can't offer assembled boards - I'm hoping there can be some forum love where those who can will come to the aid of those who can't :wink:

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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by daveejhitchins » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:48 pm

Martin:

Board ordered :D

And, remember everyone, if you need the 6522 I have plenty at £2.50 inclusive.
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by retroclinic » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:50 pm

=D>
Image

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1024MAK
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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by 1024MAK » Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:41 am

I can confirm that I will buy two PCBs :D .

Also I can solder a limited number of boards. People would have to decide which sockets they want fitted (I'm not fitting the battery backup feature unless asked to) :mrgreen:

PM sent.

Mark

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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by danielj » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:46 am

Ditto, I can build a couple if required. Have extras of most of the bits already I think...

d.

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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by Elk Towers » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:28 am

Youve got mail :D
Nick

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MartinB
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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by MartinB » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:26 pm

Apologies folks, I'm having a busy day so bear with me, I'll be in touch with all you EUP PM'ers asap :wink:

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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by Advance » Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:05 pm

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

Well done Martin. I know this project wasn't without it's low points but you pulled it off and have provided us with another must-have accessory. I've spent the development period drawing up the list of games/adventures I want to re-visit without tape loading or using tape transfer software.

The data transfer to my new A3000 is still proving an elusive goal, not to say potentially expensive so, now that you've got all this free time ........

Also, just to confirm, I want a board please.
Hugh

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
Last edited by Advance on Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MartinB
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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by MartinB » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:20 pm

Thank-you Hugh, that's a fine visual representation of 'going like the clappers' :D
Hugh wrote:I know this project wasn't without it's low points...
The project low points were all surmountable, it was as you know the two life-changing events that nearly finished me off :(
and wrote:...now that you've got all this free time ........
Sleep. I will sleep =D>

Everyone who has been in touch should have now heard back either via PM or email. Ta :wink:

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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by MartinB » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:02 pm

All the EUP PCB's ordered to-date were posted First-Class at lunchtime today so you should see them tomorrow or Wednesday at the latest :)

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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by paulv » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:33 pm

Cool. All my parts are on order and should arrive tomorrow or Wednesday too :D

Paul

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MartinB
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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by MartinB » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:45 pm

It all fits, I'm just finalising the Elk UPURS rom so I'll be firing it over to you for testing in the next couple of days :wink:

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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by danielj » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:36 pm

Board has arrived, what a beauty! All my parts will be here tomorrow, then it's user-ports-a-gogo.

d.

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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by 1024MAK » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:18 pm

Got one today...
EUP (s).JPG
EUP (s).JPG (74.99 KiB) Viewed 1552 times
Thanks Martin =D>

Mark :mrgreen:

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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by daveejhitchins » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:25 pm

Ha! Mine arrived too . . .

A BIG thanks Martin =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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MartinB
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Re: Electron User Port & Rom/Ram board

Post by MartinB » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:04 pm

Pleased they're arriving safely, the worry now though is that once a couple of people check in, why haven't all the others 8-[

(There are a couple travelling to the Emerald Isle, Ballypinball or something like, and these always take longer because the donkeys need regular hay-breaks.)

In case you're wondering about the Amazon logo in Mark's picture (oh how I laughed :wink:), it's because he ordered two boards and I somehow managed to put only one in his packet :roll:. I realised too late and so now there is a second packet on it's way :roll: :roll:. (Mark wittily observed that I was doing a good job of emulating Amazon's planet-angry order splitting :wink: )

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