LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

for bbc micro/electron hardware, peripherals & programming issues (NOT emulators!)
videofx
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by videofx » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:05 pm

Sorry but the cable is not on it's way.

The cable is already here! :)

Got anything else I could use?

Cheers!

Bill

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retroclinic
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by retroclinic » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:19 pm

Ooo that was quick! Is it working okay? You'll need to use Input 4, and go into the input menu and configure input 4 as RGBS, then it shoud give an output picture. Use the size and centering controls to give a good size picture, then remember to save it in the memory.

What else are you looking for?

Mark.
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videofx
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by videofx » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:00 am

Can't test until sometime this week. My BBC Master128 ships from the UK on Monday FedEx so should be 3 or 4 days and I am waiting for the Ebay seller to ship the DVS204. So hopefully next weekend I will be able to play :)

I am looking for the complete CP/M kit for the Beeb. I am still reading to see what else is available.

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by frankoid » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:18 am

Does anyone know whether the Samsung SyncMaster 510MP (or any other LCD monitor for that matter) will accept 15KHz video into the VGA input (as well as the SCART one). The reason I am interested in this is because it would be useful for games on 32-bit Acorns. I suppose I could make a VGA->SCART adapter for use with them, but then I'd probably have to swap cables every time I changed from a 15KHz resolution to a higher resolution (640x480, 800x600 etc).

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retroclinic
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by retroclinic » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:46 am

Not sure on that Model, but if you use an Extron DVS304 it autoranges the VGA input, and scales from 15kHz upwards, to a fixed output resolution. Note though that the 304 doesn't give as good a picture with a Beeb as the 204 does, because it converts the interlace "too" well, causing more jutter than is really needed.

Mark.
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videofx
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by videofx » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:45 pm

Well I just got my Beeb Master 128 and my DVS 204, disk drives and RGB cable. I am unboxing as we speak!

I will post a photo here of the Beeb's RGB on my 23" LCD! :)

Thanks to Mark for the help and the RGB cable!

Let the games begin! :)

Cheers!

Bill

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by videofx » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:31 pm

As promised now that I have my Beeb working! :)

Here is a picture of my Beeb connected to my 23 inch LCD running at 720P

Let me know what you think!

Cheers!

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martinw
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by martinw » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:50 am

Sweet :D

TopBanana
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by TopBanana » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:08 pm

retroclinic wrote:Not sure on that Model, but if you use an Extron DVS304 it autoranges the VGA input, and scales from 15kHz upwards, to a fixed output resolution. Note though that the 304 doesn't give as good a picture with a Beeb as the 204 does, because it converts the interlace "too" well, causing more jutter than is really needed.

Mark.
Have you tried a 304 with an Archimedes at all Mark ?

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retroclinic
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by retroclinic » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:54 pm

Yes, sure does. I just did a video of it to demonstrate

http://youtu.be/TFpRdIPFuZY

The 204 unfortunately won't do the VGA resolutions in automatically, only the 15KHz Modes. You can do it without swapping cables, you'd just need to set it to RGB pass through every time you went to a VGA mode, but with the 304, it detects every mode, and converts it all to the output resolution.

Mark.
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by TopBanana » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:46 pm

So does that mean you get all modes on a VGA monitor without the faffing around and games no longer run in letterbox mode ?

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retroclinic
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by retroclinic » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:59 pm

TopBanana wrote:So does that mean you get all modes on a VGA monitor without the faffing around and games no longer run in letterbox mode ?
I've not tested every game, but in effect, yes, as it scans any input mode it recognises (which are all the ones I tested) and converts it to the fixed output res.
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by TopBanana » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:17 pm

Oh no :(

I want one now :lol:

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retroclinic
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by retroclinic » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:05 pm

Do you now.... :wink: Well, it just so happens that I may be able to help.....

PM me if you REALLY want one :D

Mark.
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jbnbeeb
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by jbnbeeb » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:43 pm

I've just found a pricelist (US).. a DVS 304 is priced at ~ $1,500
Think I'll stick with my cheap and inferior scaler circuit for now. But one day.. I'd like one of these (or the 204 which you can get used at a somewhat lower price, Mark?)
I had a great time at...
ABUG Cambridge Sept 20-22nd 2019
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danielj
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by danielj » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:30 pm

Digging this one back up...

I just got hold of a Syncmaster 510MP... Anyone else notice that it chops the top off the picture? Not a problem per-se with the master/beeb as you can *TV it back down again, but a pain with the Elk (and some games on the beeb that forget how you've set the vidproc)... There doesn't seem to be any obvious way to reposition the picture unless you're using it in VGA mode. Any ideas?

d.

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by elecdrum » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:03 pm

Just been playing around with a GBS 8200.
you can get them from Hong Kong for £22.00 and so far giving a very clear picture on all my tft monitors.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CGA-EGA-RGB-V ... 46021ab5da

Theres also a GBS 8220 which I think gives hdmi output.

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sweh
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by sweh » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:19 pm

elecdrum wrote:Just been playing around with a GBS 8200.
you can get them from Hong Kong for £22.00 and so far giving a very clear picture on all my tft monitors.
How did you hook the Beeb up to this? Did you have to make any adjustments?
Rgds
Stephen

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nOmArch
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by nOmArch » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:46 pm

I would guess DIN -> Component Cable.
Alex

Back up to 1 Beeb again. \o/

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retroclinic
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by retroclinic » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:49 pm

elecdrum wrote:Just been playing around with a GBS 8200.
you can get them from Hong Kong for £22.00 and so far giving a very clear picture on all my tft monitors.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CGA-EGA-RGB-V ... 46021ab5da

Theres also a GBS 8220 which I think gives hdmi output.
Displaying what, a BBC? If so, please share how you got to connect it, because I and several others have tried with a few of these, and got nowhere except for a very poor blurry picture, certainly compared to the Extron 204.

Mark.
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elecdrum
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by elecdrum » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:48 pm

I'll see if I can open up the plugs to see how its wired. This came from CJE in a black box for an enormous price. The picture was also terrible so I opened the box to find said GBS 8200 inside and lo it had menu buttons on it and a bit of playing with the settings fixed It ! I then looked on ebay to find out how much they were........
I'll try posting up some pictures in the next few days.

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by flynnjs » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:16 pm

Mark, You used the P3 (5 pin, RGB + Combined Sync) ?

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retroclinic
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by retroclinic » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:23 pm

I tried it several ways, including the TTL RGBS input, and the VGA input, using resistors. It might be a setup issue, and if it is, I'd sure like to know what. I've got an 8220 (same thing, but with 2x outputs), I might give it another go at some point.

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by elecdrum » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:11 pm

it's in the vga input on this one and was set to auto which gave a sort of crackly display till I adjusted it but I'll open up the plugs tomorrow.

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1024MAK
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by 1024MAK » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:00 am

The use of the GBS-8200 with Atari St machines has been a topic on http://www.atari-forum.com as well (see http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 75#p202590).

One thing to note: the boards that were shipping at the start of this year (late January) are V4.0 boards. These seem able to cope with the Atari ST video signals a bit better once you combine the H and V syncs to form a Comp Sync out (Csync). Previous tries by other people with earlier version boards and without using the sync combiner circuit gave image results that were variable to non-existent.

The sync combiner circuit uses a 74LS86 chip.
The advantages of using this circuit with the Atari are:
  • It will not excessively load the outputs from the custom Atari Glue chip.
  • It amplifies and cleanly mixes the horizontal and vertical sync signals to produce a clean signal for the GBS-8200 video converter.
  • It is more likely to work reliably (famous last words :wink: ) with all models / versions of the ST range of computers, and it may well work with other computers that also produce horizontal and vertical sync signals.
I know most people love pictures, so here are some.... :roll: (If using Firefox right click on the image...)
STFM - Xenon 1.jpg
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STE - Xenon 1.jpg
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STFM Med Res.jpg
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Here is the schematic for the simplified version of the circuit that I use with the GBS-8200 V4.0 board.
74LS86 sync circuit V0,6.gif
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It has been tested with an Atari STFM.
The chip (IC1) is a 74LS86.
All resistors are 250mW 5%. C1 is a 100nF capacitor, the type and voltage rating are not critical, but I suggest a ceramic type.

I fed a regulated +5V dc supply to DC input connector P7 and then used the P9 power connector on the GBS-8200 V4.0 board to "steal" a +5V supply for the sync combiner circuit. Red is +5V, black is 0V/GND.

Connect the Atari STF(M)/STE up as per the table below.
On the schematic diagram, the output is called "Comp Sync out" but in the table I refer to the same signal as CSync.

Code: Select all

   Atari      signal      wire colour   GBS-8200 V4.0 board
13 pin DIN                                 P11 connector
    6 ------green video---green wire------------"G"
    7 ------red video-----red wire--------------"R"
    9 ------HSync---------to 78LS86 circuit
   10 ------blue video----blue wire-------------"B"
   12 ------VSync---------to 78LS86 circuit
   13 ------Ground--------black wire------------"GND"
            CSync from----grey wire-------------"S"
            78LS86 circuit
            No connection-yellow wire-----------"VS"
The above circuit is a simplified version of this circuit (which works okay on both my Atari STFM and my Atari STE):
74LS86 sync circuit V0,5.gif
74LS86 sync circuit V0,5.gif (39.62 KiB) Viewed 2048 times
I designed it to be a general purpose sync corrector and mixer circuit.
The chip (IC1) is a 74LS86. A 74HC86 and a 74HCT86 should also work (but have not been tested).
All resistors are 250mW 5%. C1 is a 100nF capacitor, the type and voltage rating are not critical, but I suggest a ceramic type.
The items shown / marked JP1, JP2 and JP3 are two pin headers with jumper shunts.
For use with the Atari, you do not need to fit R1, R2, R7, R8 and JP3.
JP1 and JP2 need jumper shunts fitting. Or you can use wire links in place of them.

Note each of the signal lines for the EGA/CGA (5 pin connector P3), the RGBS (8 pin connector P11) and the RGBHV/RGBS VGA input ("VGA" style 15 pin D connector P10) are all connected together. That is R to R to R, G to G to G etc.
The YPbPr inputs (connector P2) are separate.
Also the HS and S inputs on the RGBS (8 pin connector P11) are connected together on the PCB.
Just in case you were not aware, you can adjust the displayed screen size and position (both horizontally and vertical) :D

Now the answer you really want to know is to the question: does this work with a Beeb?
Alas, it is one of the things on my "to do" list. So as I have not tried it I don't know. Ask me nicely and give me a week and I may well be able to tell you.

I do know that the BBC B's the BBC Master 128's and the Electrons all have slightly different video outputs. I use a Sharp Aquos LC-19D1E-BK LCD TV with some of my Masters (and get a good steady picture via the SCART RGB input) but it is not keen on the BBC B's and the Electrons. You do get a picture some of the time, then a black screen, then a picture, then a black screen... Another investigation on my "to do" list. Anyway, I use a CUB monitor with my BBC B and don't use the Electron much.

Hope this helps a little :mrgreen:
Mark K.

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paulv
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by paulv » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:32 am

Now the answer you really want to know is to the question: does this work with a Beeb?
Does it need to? I thought the Beeb/Master/Elk output CSYNC anyway :?

Paul

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by elecdrum » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:38 am

P1010097.JPG
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P1010091.JPG
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Some pictures although not the best but Output seems clear to me and without flicker.
P1010096.JPG
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Other end of the cable is a moulded on Microvitec din plug.
Vga looks standard without resistors.
Gbs 8200 series board is Ver 4.
Sorry about camera quality, bring back manual focus all is forgiven !
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P1010097.JPG
P1010097.JPG (672.46 KiB) Viewed 2032 times

TopBanana
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by TopBanana » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:56 am

elecdrum wrote:Sorry about camera quality, bring back manual focus all is forgiven !
Is that dust on the screen or lens ? :shock:

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MartinB
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by MartinB » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:07 am

Bless you :D
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elecdrum
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Post by elecdrum » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:28 am

can't actually see the dust on the screen from here, but that was the only way I could give an idea of the crispness of the characters, the camera refused to focus on the characters but loved the dust. (A photographic genius is Born !!)

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