BeebSID and DataCentre

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Prime
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BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by Prime » Sun May 01, 2011 10:35 am

Hi all,

Is there any incompatibility with BeebSID and the DataCentre, I've downloaded one of the BeebSID disks (disk5, the movie tunes one), I can import it into ram disk 1 with *IMPORT BEEBSID5.SSD that works fine, doing a CTRL BREAK brings up the main menu, but when I select a tune to play it crashes my Master.

Machine is a standard Master 128, I did have to remove the CoPro though I didn't get a menu at all with that plugged in. os is 3.2 and everything except MOS, RamFS and Basic are unplugged.

Cheers.

Phill.

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MartinB
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Re: BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by MartinB » Sun May 01, 2011 11:00 am

Phill - I discovered part way through PJ's prolific music releases ( =D> ) that he was writing his discs in a kinda non-Acorn back-to-front way which caused some of them to crash as you are seeing. So, for the Movies disc, I added a quick and dirty fix pending PJ sorting out his imaging algorithm. You can download my version here. Have a read around that post if you want some more info.

Prime
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Re: BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by Prime » Sun May 01, 2011 11:12 am

Thanks for that Martin, though it didn't fix the problem unfortunatly :(

What does seem to have helped is to do a *DTRAP to get the datacentre to trap disk commands, so now I get the files to play, at least as far as the beeb is concerned :)

Now to debug my dodgy hardware :(

Cheers.

Phill.

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retroclinic
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Re: BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by retroclinic » Sun May 01, 2011 11:36 am

Hi.

Feel free to /facepalm me, but I've still got the 2 BeebSID PCBs you sent me Martin unassembled! I've even got a SID chip I acquired a while back, just never got round to putting it all together, so I can't do any checks myself.

Phill, I've not seen the discs, but does sound like they are maybe doing a *DISC command or something similar there, that DTRAP is catching? If it's playing while both units are connected, then I'd say the hardware can co-exist. I know the DC works with the Music 500/5000, but there is a problem with the CF system, whereby if you access the CF while the M5000 is actually playing, the CF can get corrupted. Works fine if you pause the music first.

Mark.
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MartinB
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Re: BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by MartinB » Sun May 01, 2011 11:47 am

:shock: [-X

Another Mark might be contacting you after that confession... :wink:

Prime
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Re: BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by Prime » Sun May 01, 2011 5:08 pm

Ok,

Note to self, when building hardware it helps to solder *ALL* the connections ! When I make my own boards, I can do double sided, but can't do plated through holes, so I use turned pin IC sockets as these can be soldered top and bottom, and I forgot to solder two of the top connections.

So now I'm getting sound though it is a little out of tune :( dunno if that's some interaction between BeebSID / DataCentre, or becsose I'm not using a real SID chip ! I'm using this : http://www.swinkels.tvtom.pl/swinsid/ and yeah it's a 20MHz AVR overclocked to 32MHz but it does appear to work. Could also be that there's still dodgy soldering on there :)

I'll try copying the disk to a real floppy and running from there see if that fixes things. If that does, I need to tweak the schematic slightly, then I'll upload here, incase it's usefull to anyone else.

Also had to find out how to disable CoPro, found another forum topit that sugested I used *CO. NOTUBE, but didn't tell me how to re-enable, I spent a good few minutes thinking I'd killed it, until I descovered that to re-enable you have to use *CO. TUBE :( :(

@mark The SID player was crashing until I used *DTRAP, but working afterwards, so you'll need to use that if you use it with the DC.

Prime
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Re: BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by Prime » Sun May 01, 2011 5:23 pm

Here's a quick piccy so people can see what I'm playing with......
IMG_2196-cropped.jpg
Picture of BeebSwinSID
IMG_2196-cropped.jpg (188.17 KiB) Viewed 1234 times
Cheers.

Phill.

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1024MAK
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Re: BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by 1024MAK » Sun May 01, 2011 9:36 pm

Nice pic.
Nice circuit board.
:arrow: Q. do you "bell out" the connections when you design and make your own cct boards?
I don't make many PCB boards these days (for small designs prototypes end up on Veroboard / strip board), but I do double check them (PCB's and strip board) by belling out the connections. Saves the magic smoke or embarrassment! More than once when designing PCB's I have got a component layout mirrored the wrong way on the board :lol:

Mark K.

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PitfallJones
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Re: BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by PitfallJones » Sun May 01, 2011 11:24 pm

The Sids can load into the DFS memory space so I do a memory clear and *DISK between loads - that broke my MMC card (that needed a *CARD command) - perhaps that's the problem..
- PJ

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retroclinic
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Re: BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by retroclinic » Sun May 01, 2011 11:38 pm

Yes, that would be the problem. If the SSD is loaded into the RAMdrive, then doing *DISC/K will put it back to the disc system. With DTRAP mode on, any DFS ROM is disabled, and *DISC/K is interpreted by RAMFS to be *RAM.

Mark.
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Prime
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Re: BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by Prime » Wed May 04, 2011 9:41 pm

Ok I tried it without the DataCentre connected booting from floppy with just DFS enabled as a filesystem, and it still plays off key so I think I can rule out the DC as the cause of the problem.

I'll attach a circuit diagram incase anyone has any thoughts, it's derived from Matrin's Mk2 BeebSID and the Micro SwinSID, it's possible I have transcribed something wrong or made some silly mistake :(

I've also posted for help on the SwinSID section of forum64.de incase I have made an error with that end of things, and also to check the correct fuse settings for the AVR.

Anyway here's the zipped circuit, this isn't quite the latest rev of the board, but it's the one I have built, and the changes are only minor shuffling of components.
BeebSwinSID_1.0_schematic.zip
Beeb_SwinSID_1.0 schematic and eagle files.
(99.95 KiB) Downloaded 60 times
Cheers.

Phill.

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AlanD
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Re: BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by AlanD » Thu May 05, 2011 8:26 pm

Hello Phil

there is one thing i would change on your swinsid implementation

i would break the track between you 32MHz clk module and the atmega clk in and insert a 22ohm resistor
this should damp the clk a little maybe you have a ringing problems that are causing the atmega to
miss or double clk some edges

just a thought

AlanD

Prime
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Re: BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by Prime » Thu May 05, 2011 10:11 pm

AlanD wrote:Hello Phil

there is one thing i would change on your swinsid implementation

i would break the track between you 32MHz clk module and the atmega clk in and insert a 22ohm resistor
this should damp the clk a little maybe you have a ringing problems that are causing the atmega to
miss or double clk some edges

just a thought
Yeah that's worth trying, I don't think the original Commodore based implementation had that but it is deffo possible , and would be an easy thing to try, just snip the track and solder a resistor in.

Cheers.

Phill.

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AlanD
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Re: BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by AlanD » Fri May 06, 2011 6:07 pm

Hello Phil

Another thought you could try replacing the 74ls04's with 74ls14 schmitt trigger inverters you may be getting multiple chip selects if the edge is not fast or clean enough overloading the avr chip select int hence slowing the avr down by overload

AlanD

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Re: BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by Prime » Fri May 06, 2011 9:39 pm

AlanD wrote:Hello Phil

Another thought you could try replacing the 74ls04's with 74ls14 schmitt trigger inverters you may be getting multiple chip selects if the edge is not fast or clean enough overloading the avr chip select int hence slowing the avr down by overload
Yeah that might help too, the guy that designed / wrote the firmware sugested that too many /CS transitions may be slowing the AVR down as it would be generating multiple interuupts....

So changing for LS14s may indeed help....I'll give it a go after the RCM meet this weekend.

Cheers.

Phill.

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Re: BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by Prime » Tue May 10, 2011 10:31 am

Ok, changing to LS14s doesn't seem to have changed anything :( not tried the resistor in the CS line yet, will try that tonight.

Oddly, I tried swapping the 32MHz clock to a 24MHz and the thing sounded the same which I didn't expect !, so I may well re-check the fueses on the AVR.

I have a favor to ask of someone that actually has a real beebsid, can you record me a sound file of itr playing "charriots of fire" and "neverending story" from disk 5, as it would be helpfull to hear what they are actually supposed to sound like !

Humm perhaps I should try hacking BeebSID support into Mess

Cheers.

Phill.

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PitfallJones
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Re: BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by PitfallJones » Tue May 10, 2011 10:46 am

Not quite the real thing but:

You could play the beebsid disk on a pc with the b-em emulator.

And here's a zip of the original sids with the PC sidplayer sidplay2 and the winamp plugin as well.

- PJ
Attachments
sidplay2w.zip
(230.97 KiB) Downloaded 59 times

Prime
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Re: BeebSID and DataCentre

Post by Prime » Tue May 10, 2011 11:14 am

PitfallJones wrote:Not quite the real thing but:

You could play the beebsid disk on a pc with the b-em emulator.
Ahhh, I had an idea that BeebSID support had already be hacked into one of the emulators, will try that tonight.

Thanks for the SIDs/winamp plugin, I now know what they are meant to sound like, and know that what I'm getting is nothing like that....

Cheers.

Phill.

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